Propane & Electric vs Just Electric

[Wallo]

I have a Scamp that will heat with propane, hot water with propane and fridge with electric (12 aand 120V) or propane. Spoke to a mfgr. today who will only build moulded FG campers with electric, no propane. From the way he made it sound, propane is extremely dangerous in a camper. But, if I were boon docking say at Quartzsite, and wanted hot water, heat/AC, it would seem that a generator would be necessary. Courtesy dictates that a generator should not be used during sleeping hours. Two questions for those reading this:

1. Is propane all that dangerous? Are there that MANY explosions in campers every year? Are they caused by user oversight (leaving propane turned on while traveling). Or just the dangerous nature of the beast.

2. For those who are electric only, how do you handle heat/AC and hot water for bathing when there is no electric post to plug into?

I would be interested in knowing, to judge whether I would be willing to camp without the convenience propane affords and am I in THAT much danger.

Your thoughts and comments are appreciated.

[sokhapkin]

Propane is very dangerous. To all-electric trailers manufacturers

[cpaharley2008]

I have a feeling you spoke to Jim Palmer of EggCamper, his units are all electric for the reasons you stated. Having owned one I can say without solar panels and several batteries, Quartzite is out of the picture. . If you have hookups most of the time it is a nice camper, bigger than Scamps and Casitas, both of which have propane. Then there is Parkliner, LilSnoozy both relatively new and one of those are all electric and finally Oliver and Escape Trailers who are the only major trailer manufacturers to offer propane and solar from the factory.

[Glenn Baglo]

Google this site, Casita, any other RV site using the search term "explosion" and let us know how many posts you find describing actual explosive events with propane.
And, if you go all-electric, make sure you don't get electrocuted or suffer a fire ( isn't electrical one of the most cited sources of fires in homes? ).

Can't beat the convenience of propane / electric.

[Carol H]

Alice, in your time here or at rallies how many trailers with propane are you aware of having had bad propane stores to tell you about or have you seen? ;-)

There was an thread that addressed some of the issues with the all electrical trailers in the past few days called Installing a 12v DC refrigerator in a Lil Snoozy that you may find useful in deciding if its for you or not.

As you have had the option of using propane on your current trailer I don't know why but I have a hunch you may not be overly happy with an all electric trailer.... but could be wrong. :-)

[Bob Miller]

LP Danger = Pure Hokum

There are millions of propane equipped RV's out there and I'll bet that the number of fires per million miles can be counted on one finger. That's shame that one builder continues to conduct his scare campaign about LP fuel in FGRV's.

It used to be that all electric trailers were called "Park Models" because an RV park was about the only place you could stay with them. If going from RV Park to RV Park, and never staying in a National Park, State Park or boon docking is ones agenda, I suppose it might work.

To quote a famous footwear maker>>> An all electric FGRV SOX

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Wallo

I have a Scamp that will heat with propane, hot water with propane and fridge with electric (12 aand 120V) or propane. Spoke to a mfgr. today who will only build moulded FG campers with electric, no propane.

From the way he made it sound, propane is extremely dangerous in a camper.

Sounds like Lil Snoozy.... they posted a thread here back when they were starting out "explaining how dangerous propane is", yada yada yada. General theme was sort of "we care a lot more about your safety than the other guys do!".

Here's the link to that thread: http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...hts-46737.html

Then as now, (and regardless of who's saying it) most here saw the "propane is bad" thing for what it was: just self-serving bushwa unsupported by any evidence.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

General theme was sort of "we care a lot more about your safety than the other guys do!". <_&lt

.

The simple fact is when you look at the fiberglass trailer manufactures past and present as well as SOB's that there are very few manufactures who make an all electric RV either now or in the past. So somehow all over the world millions of people every week-end manage to safely camp with propane appliances without incident.

To be honest I am beginning to think that the one or two manufactures here in NA who continue to promote the all electric trailers using scare tactics may simple not have the staff qualified to install the propane appliances. Try as I might, I just can't come up with any other rational or reasonable or supportive explanation for the reasons they give for it. But thats just MHO.

[Raz]

We were so happy cooking on the propane stove in our trailer that when we needed a new stove at home we switched to propane. Raz

[Wallo]

Sergey: Yup, haha.

Jim: Yes, it was EggCamper. Your personal knowledge of that product is helpful. I want to be able to go to NP's and be comfortable. Not spend $18K+ and not get full use of it.

Glenn: My reasoning leans towards if it is that BIG of a problem, there would be a huge uproar from the campers in this country. A auto mfg. has a major recall covering 6 years of autos because of 11 accidents.

Carol: You are correct. I have never heard of any tales or naysayers at any of the rallies, or other campers that propane is evil. I have doubts that I would be happy with a totally electric camper, but wanted to hear from others and their solutions to not using propane. In looking for a new camper, I want to eliminate any that would not fit my camping needs. It's tough to find National/State parks or WalMart parking lots that have 30 AMP electric. But, I can get by for a few days if there is propane.

Bob: I agree

Francesca: It is a scare tactic. For anyone who has never camped with propane before, it may be very convincing. I have a feeling those mfgs. who make those claims only want to build all electric because of insurance/mfg. costs. IMHO.

Living along the I-15 corridor between LV and SLC, there are thousands of trailers traveling to the National parks in UT. every year. There has only been one, in the 8 years I've lived here that caught on fire. That was due to the owner not shutting of the gas while driving and a fluke spark. I always turn the gas off when breaking camp, just to give myself extra insurance and peace of mind.

So, it appears two nice FG trailers are eliminated. Wonder what their sale numbers are compared to the same size Scamp/Casita/Escape?

[Bob Miller]

Ooops, another Urban Myth surfaces.

That camper fire was not caused by the LP tank being left ON, it was cause by something else failing, usually through operator or maintenance error.

But yes, some do like that "Extra Margin" whatever it may, or may not, be.

[blodn1]

So, it appears two nice FG trailers are eliminated.

Alice - Don't eliminate Lil Snoozy. It can be equipped with propane.

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by blodn1

Alice - Don't eliminate Lil Snoozy. It can be equipped with propane.

As an afterthought?

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

As an afterthought?

Pretty well, the way it was explained here a few weeks ago the trailer purchaser needs to supply the propane appliances to them... go figure...

[Herman M Parker]

I have been camping for more than 50 yrs using propane and have never heard of a (explosion) caused by propane. I have heard of a few fires caused by smokers. I also worked as a service tech for a propane company for 16 yrs. In that time I only heard of one explosion caused by propane but on investigation it was caused by a 9 and 10 year old trying to heat milk in a pan when milk boiled over put out burner kid got scared and left the house. There was the very rare case of fires but everyone of them was caused by human error. Sounds better than stupidity. Sorry to have written so much but as a ex propane it makes me mad to see or hear false info about propane. Herman

[blodn1]

As an afterthought?

As a customer preference.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Pretty well, the way it was explained here a few weeks ago the trailer purchaser needs to supply the propane appliances to them... go figure...

I saw that post, too, and my thoughts are that if propane is to be included in a trailer it should be part of the design process. There are some basic considerations that really can't be worked around later.

One retrofit obstacle that occurs to me in the case of the Snoozy is the location of its "escape" window. As I remember, it's on the wall behind what looks to me like the only location available for a cooktop. That egress location is already non-standard due to its proximity to the door, but putting gas appliances directly in front of it would make things that much worse.

[Jim W]

In a Snoozy the window over the couch is also an escape window. If you are boondocking an all electric trailer will have issues. For me it isn't really a problem, I haven't really camped with my Snoozy it is more of a portable motel room. So I'm either staying with someone that will let me plug in or I'm running the generator to keep the AC on. And for those of you that experiencing "cool" weather right now, my house AC just came on while I was typing this just to rub it in a little. Down the road I am going to install a 12 volt refrigerator to keep from having to run the generator while I'm going down the road.

[blodn1]

OK - On the Snoozy, I plan to have a propane water heater and a small propane furnace. The rest is electric. The batteries will be supplied by a solar system. I've given up the generator, because the more I study it, the more I believe I can do off-grid camping without a generator. My electric needs are few - I can live without a microwave or air conditioning (though I will have an installed A/C for when I'm parking).

For the Snoozy haters, it still is each to his own. I chose the Lil Snoozy for several reasons, not the least is the the customer service. They will work with me to design the power system that I need - solar, AC/DC and yes, propane.

[Carol H]

For me personally it sure wouldn't be my preference to have to do my own homework & shopping for what propane appliances will or not work with their layout. I have used propane appliances for years and I can say with absolute certainty that I don't have the knowledge or qualifications to be doing that! Don't know why but it certainly sounds a bit like a recipe for disaster.

Don't get me wrong I love the look and layout of the trailer. I just think there needs to be a little rethink in regards to current situation with propane and how they are handling the situation. Giving your customers a chooses is a good thing and being willing to do custom requests is also a good thing - heck thats the #1 reason Escape became so popular so fast and have done so well. But IMHO your are either as a manufacture offering a trailer equipped with propane appliances as an option or your not.