12 volt aux. plugs

[David O.]

I am wanting to add a couple 15 amp 12 volt aux plug in's in our Outback.
Is there any reason I could not run one set of wires to the first one and branch of those wires to the second one. Instead of running a complete second set of wires?
I am using 10 awg stranded wire.
By using just one set of wires am I cutting the 15 amp capacity in half if both aux plugs are used at the same time?
Thanks for any help.

[John in Michigan]

David,

A couple of considerations:

1. The circuit must be protected with a fuse or breaker that's rated not greater than the wiring and each outlet, in this case 15 amps.
2. The fuse or breaker will open if the two outlets attempt to carry a combined load greater than 15 amps.
3. Sufficient gauge wire must be used, and 10 gauge is more than sufficient.
4. Wiring in series will work. However, in cars for example, I have seen a dedicated fuse and circuit for each 12 volt outlet.

-John in Michigan

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by John in Michigan

...
4. Wiring in series will work. However, in cars for example, I have seen a dedicated fuse and circuit for each 12 volt outlet.
...

Which might be fairly easy to do. The 12 VDC outlets I have here are rated at 10 amps, so to use them near their max rating, I ran separate wire from a separate 10 amp fuse in the power distribution panel. (I used 10 AWG wire also, because I had it already and it is rated well over 10 amps) That way I don't have to worry about blowing a fuse on an existing circuit by overloading it with a daisy chained outlet off an existing circuit. Do you have panel (fuse box) with any spare slots?

[Ed Harris]

Most typical Cigar Style lighter outlets are rated at 7amp max. The design of the outlet and plug do not lend themselves to high current operation really.

There are many other plug/outlet combos that will though,what exactly will you be running that requires 15a in a lighter plug?

I like the Marinco stuff always and they sell different twist lock trolling motor connectors that are ideal for this and rated up to 30a usually.These are also readily available anywhere boating stuff is sold.

I nothing else it will be hard to mate a lighter outlet with 10 gauge wire I bet?

[David O.]

Originally Posted by gordon2

Do you have panel (fuse box) with any spare slots?

Not sure if I do.
It has an Elixir power converter. (not sure the model) I think all available slots are already used.
Hadn't thought about an inline fuse.
What would be the best thing to if all slots are used?
I just bought a 2008 Outback.
Thanks for the help.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Wire in parallel NOT I REPEAT NOT series.

[David O.]

Originally Posted by Ed Harris

Most typical Cigar Style lighter outlets are rated at 7amp max. The design of the outlet and plug do not lend themselves to high current operation really.

There are many other plug/outlet combos that will though,what exactly will you be running that requires 15a in a lighter plug?

I like the Marinco stuff always and they sell different twist lock trolling motor connectors that are ideal for this and rated up to 30a usually.These are also readily available anywhere boating stuff is sold.

I nothing else it will be hard to mate a lighter outlet with 10 gauge wire I bet?

These are the plugs I got. Bandc marine plug. With the connector on the back, should be easy to connect wire. Don't really plan to use them other than for running and charging a lap top and a phone.

http://www.amazon.com/Waterproof-Mar...t+power+outlet

[John in Michigan]

David,

OOPS, I misspoke. Definitely agree with Byron. Has to be parallel wired.

-John in Michigan

Edit: Also, you definitely need to check the amp rating for the 12 volt outlets. Each product is different. Make sure the fuse or breaker does not exceed the amp rating of one outlet.

[gordon2]

I am not familiar with that converter myself, but I did look at the manual for that brand and the one I read about had three circuits with different colored wires for each. In other words, not a fuse panel like I have. You could add the outlets to one of those. It would be best to figure out which one had the least load and use that one. You could even tap on most anywhere that was convenient. HOWEVER this is not idea and will likely cause blown fuses or other problems. What I think I would do in your case is run your 10 gauge wire straight from the battery with a separate appropriately sized fuse on the positive lead as close to the battery as possible. Then run it to your 12 volt outlets.

EDIT: The ones you linked to are rated at 15 amp continuous according the Q&A.. but I would stay with a 10 amp fuse to be safe.. after all, they come from China.

[David O.]

What a great forum.
I am a bit of a novice at this so learning with help from here as I go. Just don't want to fry anything.

[Ed Harris]

Originally Posted by David O.

These are the plugs I got. Bandc marine plug. With the connector on the back, should be easy to connect wire. Don't really plan to use them other than for running and charging a lap top and a phone.

http://www.amazon.com/Waterproof-Mar...t+power+outlet

I am also doubtful of the 15a rating being realistic on these but for just basic charging uses like you describe this is a non-issue anyway.
You will have to run a heater or drill or something pretty big to draw that kind of power in your trailer.

If you run a 10gauge wire and make good connections thru a 10a fuse of decent quality you should be fine I think.

If you make serial connections to the outlets you will be in for a funny surprise too at some point!
Pretty much defeats the purpose too.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by David O.

I am wanting to add a couple 15 amp 12 volt aux plug in's in our Outback...

David, I added a 12 VDC outlet and USB outlet on a new circuit from my fuse panel. Then I decided I wanted another 12 VDC outlet, and also low current 12 VDC for a radio and TV antenna amplifier. Plus who knows what else I will do in the future.

Therefore I just decided to buy this sub-panel ($30 on eBay) and run all my added stuff off it.

In your case you could run wires from the battery (fused at the positive terminal) to this sub-panel, and at the sub-panel not only have two separate fused circuits for your outlets, but four more taps for future expansion. Just make sure everything is within ratings.

[stevebaz]

Where you run your wire to connect to power if this was my trailer and had to run a wire like you want I would use a 20 amp fuse at the source and run your power and ground to your first outlet and put a 10 amp or less fuse there. Continue your wires to your second outlet and put a 10 amp or less fuse there. This way your wiring is protected for the whole branch load and your individual outlets are protected for the individual load they could see. Make sure the wire you use is capable for the whole 20 amp load continuous duty for the length of run. My personal trailer is run all in individual circuits protected at the supply source. With your run of wire I would run a ground wire too and not have individual grounds running all over the place.

[David O.]

Thanks everyone for the help.
Can I pick your brains some more?
The Out Back has a Elixir ELX-25 Power converter/charger (I understand they are no longer made) It seems to working as it should. It also has a brand new Progressive Dynamics PD9245C RV Converter/Charger hard wired to the Elixir-25.
I am a bit confused about that.
I had read that the Progressive Dynamics PD4135 AC/DC distribution panel & power converter is a direct replacement for the Elixir-25.
If I understand what I have read, the PD4135 should be able to replace both the Elixir-25 and the Progressive Dynamics PD9245C
Have I got everyone confused yet?
Does anyone know anything about any of those units?

[Ed Harris]

Originally Posted by David O.

Thanks everyone for the help.
Can I pick your brains some more?
The Out Back has a Elixir ELX-25 Power converter/charger (I understand they are no longer made) It seems to working as it should. It also has a brand new Progressive Dynamics PD9245C RV Converter/Charger hard wired to the Elixir-25.
I am a bit confused about that.
I had read that the Progressive Dynamics PD4135 AC/DC distribution panel & power converter is a direct replacement for the Elixir-25.
If I understand what I have read, the PD4135 should be able to replace both the Elixir-25 and the Progressive Dynamics PD9245C
Have I got everyone confused yet?
Does anyone know anything about any of those units?

Hard wired how exactly?
Pics will be worth 1000 words here for sure!

As you describe it this makes little sense to me but I know that Progressive also makes or made charger upgrades for other converter units and I wonder if there is just a newer Progressive charger upgrade in the Elixer can?
The idea was to give better more modern multi-stage charging in place of the original primitive chargers a lot of trailers were built with.
So you could upgrade the charger without having to remove the distribution panels for a much easier upgrade to take better care of your batteries.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by David O.

...
The Out Back has a Elixir ELX-25 Power converter/charger (I understand they are no longer made) It seems to working as it should. It also has a brand new Progressive Dynamics PD9245C RV Converter/Charger hard wired to the Elixir-25.
I am a bit confused about that...]

You and me both! That sounds really strange.

The only thing that comes to mind is that someone wanted more electrical power and added the second converter, but I cannot think of any scenario where that would be a good plan for the typical small camper.

I think you need to get a qualified person to inspect your rig in person.

EDIT: Ed's eval makes some sense.. using the old unit as a distribution panel only and adding an updated converter to the panel of the old unit. In that case the old unit would not be providing any power or battery charging.

[David O.]

Hard wired how exactly?

The PD-9245C is wired right into the back of the Elixir.
Here are a few pictures.
The second picture with the white and the black lines together. The black one is from the PD9245C wired into the back of the Elixir. The black cord on the right is the shore power line. Sorry it looks like I got one upside down

[gordon2]

Pics are worth 10 words.. lol
So, not clear on this still.. but if the shore power cord still goes to the Elixir then I am fresh out of theories.

[David O.]

Originally Posted by David O.

Hard wired how exactly?

The PD-9245C is wired right into the back of the Elixir.
Here are a few pictures.
The second picture with the white and the black lines together. The black one is from the PD9245C wired into the back of the Elixir. The black cord on the right is the shore power line. Sorry it looks like I got one upside down

Don't now if it matters in my description of what is in the Out Back.
The Progressive Dynamics PD-9245C is wired directly to the battery then to the Elixir-25.
It is also wired for solar with a Morningstar 10L charge controller and a Trojan Group 27 89 a/hr AGM deep cycle battery.
It just seems that If I were to swap the Elixir-25 and the PD9245C PD9200 Series RV Power Converters and put in a Progressive Dynamics PD4135 4135 Distribution Panel and Power Converter that it would do the same or better than what these other 2 units are now doing.
What amp size units are most people going with in 13 ft. campers?
The Progressive Dynamics PD4135 is 35amps with continuous input power of 550 watts.
The Progressive Dynamics PD4045 is 45amps with continuous input power of 750 watts. Mighty Mini Compact AC/DC Power Distribution Panel

[Ed Harris]

Still can't really tell anymore from the pics but I bet they just use the Progressive to charge the battery and provide 12vdc to the trailer(Maybe) and still use the Elixer to just distribute 120vac power?

Maybe they thought it was easier to do this than rewire everything?
It does not make a lot of sense to me but I have sure seen stranger things too!

A lot of people are greased out by electric in general and are then inclined to do freaky mods in turn!

It does seem there is obvious room for cleaning the whole thing up but you will need a way to distribute the 120vac in the process.