12 volt system

[Raz]

Zach, I'm a retired EE. I've seem the accidents happen. There is a lot of energy stored in those little boxes. I have great respect for lead acid batteries. That said, what you or others wish to do is ok by me. Stay safe. Raz

[floyd]

Originally Posted by wbullivant

My current Promaster van and my previous Sprinter van both have the lead acid wet cell chassis battery mounted inside the vehicle. In both cases they have a small (1/4" od) tube routed downward to underneath the vehicle. There are many thousands of these vehicles in operation. I have a sealed house battery box in my van with a 3/4" pex vent tube routed upward through the roof. Since Hydrogen gas is much lighter than air I think my venting system is superior but even with the small downward tube I have never heard of a resulting accident. If there were a significant risk with a vented box then I would suspect FCA & Daimler's lawyers would be demanding a change. Obviously there should be no possible source of a spark mounted within the sealed battery box.

Many Buicks have the battery mounted under the back seat.

[Raz]

Originally Posted by floyd

Many Buicks have the battery mounted under the back seat.

So did the VW bug.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Raz

So did the VW bug.

true , a couple of generations ago and back, there were lots vehicles with batteries under the seat or floorboard. My point was that lead acid batteries present no significant threat if properly installed and maintained, whether inside or out.

Ever see the battery in a hybrid crossover?!
I know its not lead acid, but much has been said about the danger.
I went to the salvage yard back when hybrids were new, to get a radio for a ford pickup. The only one they had was in a new Ford Escape hybrid which had been wrecked. It was wrapped up like a mummy in "danger tape" , and "caution tape", and "do not touch tape"!
It was about as much work getting through all that tape as it was to remove the radio! A lot has been learned since then, which has saved a lot of yellow and red tape.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by floyd

true , a couple of generations ago and back, there were lots vehicles with batteries under the seat or floorboard. My point was that lead acid batteries present no significant threat if properly installed and maintained, whether inside or out.

OK Floyd why did automobile manufacturers move the lead acid batteries to under the hood where there's lot of ventilation?

[David Tilston]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

OK Floyd why did automobile manufacturers move the lead acid batteries to under the hood where there's lot of ventilation?

Less copper? Just a guess.

BTW, My Audi 5000 also had the battery under the back seat. It also had jump start terminals under the hood, where you would expect the battery.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by floyd

true , a couple of generations ago and back, there were lots vehicles with batteries under the seat or floorboard. My point was that lead acid batteries present no significant threat if properly installed and maintained, whether inside or out.

Ever see the battery in a hybrid crossover?!

My point is they were moved from some reason. Just like seat belts were installed for some reason. You're trying to justify something by going into old history where things have changed with out justifying the change

As children and young adults we survived without seat belts. Our fathers survived with heaters or AC. Turn signals were an add on. etc.etc.etc. So you want to back 50years go ahead try to live in the past.

[Raz]

Originally Posted by floyd

Ever see the battery in a hybrid crossover?!

Yes. Nickel metal hydride, and lithium ion. Different chemistry. As I said, what ever you wish to do is ok by me.

[ZachO]

Seeing "what can happen" will certainly change your perspective. I remember reading a thread somewhere else about carrying gas cans on the back of vehicles. The one true voice against it was a first responder, who had a very practical, honestly-earned view against traveling with gas cans.

But that view came from the fact that he basically always saw the worst case scenario.

I don't disagree with your take on things and like you said, people can do what they want.

I'd just play devil's advocate...because this is point in the thread where someone brings up gas lines into houses, propane in RVs, electrical systems in RVs. Every one of those has failed and killed people.

How many people die in car accidents? We take those things to be necessary risks.

Which is more dangerous, or happens more often? Battery fires or wire shorts? I don't know the answer; I'm curious.

That stuff is all just to bring up points. Personally, when it's something like this which I can control, I'll go with the safer option. I could have an rv with no electricity or propane, sure. That would be a pretty big hassle, though. Simply putting the battery outside of the camper is really no hassle at all. So that's an easy one for me.

[Tim from BC]

Originally Posted by Jiggs

I am restoring a 1977 13 ft scamp with no 12 volt system. I need a little help installing the system and is there any problem with having the 12 volt battery inside the trailer?

Jiggs, I'm very glad this question was brought up, I have a '73 Trillium 13' with no power on board and would really like to do something about that. I am considering 2 6 volt sealed batteries that could be put inside (my plan is at the front of the 2 dinette benches - one on each side - just behind the axle) because I tow with a f150, the battery on the tongue, pushing the propane tank forward will interfere with the tailgate.

[Franswa]

sorry, pet peave of mine....

"Even a small spark could cause a massive explosion"

a) it will cause a "massive" detonation (as in LOUD) but nothing "explodes" (as in debris flying through the air destroying things)
I've been within a couple of feet of such an event twice.

b) ALL explosions are caused by small sparks

[Borrego Dave]

Originally Posted by Franswa

sorry, pet peave of mine....
"Even a small spark could cause a massive explosion"
a) it will cause a "massive" detonation (as in LOUD) but nothing "explodes" (as in debris flying through the air destroying things)
I've been within a couple of feet of such an event twice.
b) ALL explosions are caused by small sparks

I've been around batteries all my life and have never had a problem. MMMM, Franswa, you must be one of those guys with a lot of spark in their step .

[k0wtz]

both my cadilacs have batteries under the seat I hate it and it makes no sense to do that!!

bob

[J Ron]

Sealed AGM batteries will be the easiest because no venting is required. You will sacrifice some amp hrs and money, but easier and probably safer. They can be placed on their side also. Fumes from normal batteries will also activate Co alarms. All these concerns are removed with sealed AGM batteries.

[Raz]

The thread I mentioned earlier. While it's rather long, the first few pages tell the story.

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...ner-58244.html

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Raz

The thread I mentioned earlier. While it's rather long, the first few pages tell the story.

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...ner-58244.html

Thats a long thread and the first two pages did not tell me much, then I got bored. So let me just say that a fuse right at the battery terminal is really good protection.

[k0wtz]

yes a fuse at the battery is a first start!!


bob

[k0wtz]

a guy I worked for was out at night fooling with his battery for some reason he struck a match. the battery exploded right in his face!!


things do happen!




bob

[Mike_L]

The first lead-acid battery I saw explode was in a vehicle while the owner was boosting a friend's car. He hooked up the cables. When his friend tried to start his vehicle there was a spark that ignited the hydrogen gas escaping from the battery in the boost vehicle. Debris from the top of the battery and acid sprayed the engine compartment and the owners face.
The second time I observed a lead-acid battery explode it was an RV battery being charged in a garage. It had been charging for about two hours. The explosion sounded like a shot gun blast. The top HALF of the battery and most of the acid sprayed the entire garage.
Just before I retired I designed a ventilation system for a solar application that used large permanently mounted lead-acid storage batteries. Supply and exhaust air flow patterns as well as air change volumes were safety code requirements.
If lead-acid batteries are used inside, ventilation is required.
AGM batteries are a safer alternative, not only because they don't usually vent significant quantities of hydrogen gas but they don't spill acid if tipped over.

[Raz]

Originally Posted by gordon2

Thats a long thread and the first two pages did not tell me much, then I got bored.

I'm sorry you were bored. It's unfortunate that an individual who doesn't recognize a parallel connection has to argue with several knowledgable individuals for a couple of pages. Give him credit. He's sure he's right. He saw it on the internet. We seem to have a lot of that here. Unfortunate.

If one can get past that I think there is useful information in the thread for folks that have or wish to have batteries inside the trailer. At the very least the pools of acid sitting on the batteries are a warning that things are not as simple as they seem. I hope you're boredom doesn't stop folks from taking the time to at least have a look. Raz