Maintenance & Restoration

whoot · 01-04-2016, 04:33 PM

I left a space-heater running in my Casita, so it never got below 70 inside. Outside it was 18 degrees, under my skirted Casita it was 28 degrees. I left the gas hot water heater on when I left for work. I came back 12 hours later, and the gas water heater is trying to ignite. The furnace wont light. The stove wont light. I switched LP tanks this weekend. I tried switching back to the original (refilled now), and still no LP. Both LP tanks are full.

Is it possible something froze in the 18 degree whether, that is stopping the LP from reaching the furnance/water/stove ??

Darwin Maring · 01-04-2016, 05:07 PM

LP does not move if it gets to cold. I do not know at what temp it does that. Get a freeze tape and wrap the tank and lines that are exposed outside.

whoot · 01-04-2016, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darwin Maring

LP does not move if it gets to cold. I do not know at what temp it does that. Get a freeze tape and wrap the tank and lines that are exposed outside.

It's 14 degrees now, and it will be 9 degrees later. Casita said to use the furnace if it got under 32 degrees, which I can't do. I turned off the 2 LP valves. If something is frozen, and thaws later, I don't want a LP leak under my skirted Casita.

I guess it would blow up the Casita if a propane bubble formed under the Casita, and was ignited by the space-heater.

redbarron55 · 01-04-2016, 05:48 PM

the LP will not burst lines if it freezes and thaws. Water will, but LP is not water.
The freezing point is very low, but the boiling point is -44*F. This means that the pressure will drop where it is not usable.
A heating blanket or heat trace will warm it up enough to get some pressure.

Casita Greg · 01-04-2016, 05:50 PM

Propane will "boil," that is, go from a liquid state to a gaseous vapor at -44 degrees F. at sea level (ambient pressure.) It is doubtful that the problem lies with the propane. Now, that doesn't cover any entrained moisture which may exist within the system or inside the gas regulator, which would obviously freeze at 32 degrees F.

Liquid Propane will not freeze until you get it down to -310 degrees F. (Doubtful that you will ever see conditions that bad, no matter how cold it is out.) This also means that it is not necessary to worry about the gas lines "freezing" and bursting like water lines do.

Usually, it is the high flow restrictor that generally is the culprit. If you run out of propane, and the line pressure is 0, if you open a full bottle too quickly, the flow restrictor engages, and you will have very little, if any, flow. Try turning your tanks off and then opening them slowly. If you open the tank valve too fast, the new tank valves think there is a leak and will cut off the flow.

Casita Greg · 01-04-2016, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darwin Maring

LP does not move if it gets to cold. I do not know at what temp it does that. Get a freeze tape and wrap the tank and lines that are exposed outside.

NOT GOOD ADVICE. Putting an electric heat wrap on a propane tank or gas lines would be highly ill-advised. Those heat tapes have been known to over heat, burn through, and create shorts. Not exactly conditions you would want around an extremely flammable fuel container unless you plan to arc weld on the tank or lines...

Glenn Baglo · 01-04-2016, 06:34 PM

There was a recent discussion of propane regulator and cold weather on the Escape Forum.
You might find help for your issue here: FullTiming-propane not happy with cold weather - Escape Trailer Owners Community

Darwin Maring · 01-04-2016, 08:06 PM

As Greg Pointed out above, NOT GOOD ADVICE. Putting an electric heat wrap on a propane tank or gas lines would be highly ill-advised. Those heat tapes have been known to over heat, burn through, and create shorts. Not exactly conditions you would want around an extremely flammable fuel container unless you plan to arc weld on the tank or lines...

I used a heat tape that had a thermostat on it and wrapped the outside copper line with it. Did this for 5 Years of winters where I lived full time. The one thing that you must never do is to cross your heat tape with the heat tape. It will get to hot where the tape crosses over its self and melt through. My heat tape was connected to a ground fault isolated receptacle thus giving me some sort of safety factor should a short happen.

Even though I used the tape on the gas line does not mean that you should. If you do, you do so at your own risk.

LyleB · 01-04-2016, 10:10 PM

Since you have electricity, I would try shining a heat lamp on the regulator. If it does have water frozen inside it, this should thaw it out and get it moving. Obviously not close enough to overheat the tank and cause other problems.

Just a thought.

whoot · 01-04-2016, 10:53 PM

I disconnected one of the tanks, and reconnected it, then turned it on slowly. A little bit of propane came out, I was able to light the stove for about 5 seconds, then the flame died. My user manual talks about an automatic propane selector, but mine appears to be manual. I turn the long "arm" to point at the propane can I am trying to use. The word "supply" is pointing to the tank I have turned on. Am I supposed to turn on both tanks, even though the selector is only pointing at one?

I was running 2 space-heaters, one underneath and one inside. Both were at 1500 amps. A circuit popped and they both stopped. So I reset the circuit and only turned on the space-heater underneath, it is still running I think. It's 30 degrees underneath and 8 degrees outside. I have a little greywater in the tank, and I poured in a bunch of antifreeze. Maybe I should drain the black/grey tanks since I don't seem to be able to get the lower area above freezing.

I'm not using the space-heater inside, so I don't pop the circuit again. I turned on the heat-strip in the AC unit, since its now 40 degrees inside.

This is a nightmare.

Glenn Baglo · 01-04-2016, 11:15 PM

In the thread on the Escape forum that I linked to, I think the problem was in the regulator. You'd have to read the whole thread for the fix ( maybe starting at the bottom ). I have automatic change-over on mine and I turn both tanks on. The lever indicates which tank is in use ( as you said ).
I'd drain the grey and black tanks ( maybe just add more anti-freeze for now ), shut off that space heater under the trailer and turn on the space heater inside.

Lisa in Michigan · 01-05-2016, 05:30 AM

We only have 1 120v circuit in our Boler and our son went camping last weekend. It was really cold and we don't a a furnace, so had him use the space heater when he was in the camper. So we ran 2 extension cords from the campground outlets to our boler. We plugged one directly to the space heater, and one to the thing that has the circuit breakers (that provides power the lights and the single outlet in the boler). The heads of both cords fit through the recepticule on the side of the bole last weekend. Our heater is 800/1500 watt.

We were afraid he would overload the circuit if we plugged the heater directly into the boler's outlet. Make sure the extension cord is powerful enough or you can melt it (did that with a leaf power before I was smart enought to start looking at the capacity of the extension cord & taking into acount the length).

Could something similar help you as you figure out your propane problem?

NEWYORKHILLBILLY · 01-05-2016, 05:48 AM

best way to solve this is to sell me you casita I will come get it and you can take the money for a nice motel. drop me a pm if your interested.

on the problem i assume the regulator is froze try getting some heat on it.

Darwin Maring · 01-05-2016, 09:08 AM

Lisa has the solution.
When I wintered in the camper, I had 12 gauge extension cords running from vacant adjacent camp sites to the camper to run the electric heaters I had inside. It worked really well.

I put antifreeze I. The grey and black tanks and I did not heat the underside.

Heat your inside egg and stay warm.

Note: Open the cabinet doors under your faucet so it does not freeze.

**Jim Bennett** · 01-05-2016, 09:34 AM

As long as there is propane in the tanks, the culprit most certainly is the regulator. Thawing it out might do the trick, otherwise replacement is quick and easy, and not too pricey.

Bob in Mb · 01-05-2016, 10:42 AM

Make sure that all propane appliances are fully turned off before opening the valve on the tank otherwise the regulator detects a leak and will not allow full flow of gas.

Jack L · 01-05-2016, 11:01 AM

Could you use hot water to warm the regulator ? Just trying to come up with a solution that does not provide an ignition source.

WaltP · 01-05-2016, 11:28 AM

A new regulator would not be very expensive and remove that possibility. Have you done any effective leak testing on your propane lines and fittings?
As far as your tanks are concerned the small amount of water left after draining will not cause a problem if it freezes and you don't need to add antifreeze. The shape of the tanks will permit the expansion with no problem. I'd make sure there's antifreeze in any p-traps though, especially exterior ones like on earlier Casitas.

Walt

TheWanderers · 01-05-2016, 12:24 PM

I'm going to throw in here; the last time I had to deal with propane I was 16 years old and therefore not trusted to make the repairs. My leak testing training included soapy water on the joints but that would freeze in this circumstance, so never mind that idea.

However, I agree with Jim B that the problem is most likely with the regulator and relatively inexpensive to replace when compared to freezing pipes or freezing yourself. You could try taking the existing regulator inside and warming it up for a few hours in front of your space heater or rinsing in warm water to accelerate the warming but then you might be introducing more moisture that could freeze again when reinstalled. I'd go for a new regulator that's been hanging around a warm dry retailer sales room for the last two years. Easy swap out and you should be back in business...and maybe get an extra tank of propane while you're there.