A Heating Alternative?

[CarlD]

I really like the soapstone wood stove I have in my house, but I don't think they are very practical in a camper unless you are really going to spent considerable time in it. Having to procure and process wood on the road is time consuming, you have to store it somewhere, its dirty, and the stove needs frequent feeding. 'Elsa Rhea and Barron' have a wood stove in their scamp. Pellets are a viable alternative and the way Slim has his setup he doesn't have to load it very often and it's clean, and you have to carry pellets. They produce nice heat but you would probably have cold feet, however, you would not go deaf listening to a fan running. There are a lot of considerations.

[steve dunham]

After heating our home and lake cabin for over 40 years with wood , the idea of trying to heat a small fiberglass with a wood stove is impractical at best
Why does the FG community continue to keep trying to reinvent the wheel and come up with solutions that create more problems then they solve
We have the factory furnace and carry a small portable electric heater . We use our pots , pans and cooktop for cooking ,and a solar panel to recharge our battery
I have no desire to live like Ted Kaczynski

[k0wtz]

look around look in sink cabinet area air air air coming in! cant stop it all thus not airtight!

[computerspook]

Originally Posted by papa-t

Hey guys, been a while. Went back to the dark side in 2015 but still pop in from time to time. We’ve owned two Scamps and a U-Haul camper. We use to use a Mr Buddy heater for extra heat. They have an oxygen sensor and are safe for indoor use. I used a 1lb Propane Adapter to easily refill 1lb propane tanks by way of a 20lb tank. Trick to refilling these 1Lb propane bottles is the turn the 20Lb propane tank upside down when refilling. After you get use to refilling, you don’t have to weigh the tank like the video shows. You’ll know by just the weight in your hand. And the neat part is at all campgrounds usually you can find these new/used 1Lb tanks thrown away. https://youtu.be/o7h4HVAJR9w

The heater could be a good idea. It does have a design that is supposed to avoid CO production and it does have an O@ depletion sensor.

That adapter is both dangerous and illegal. The tanks are one use tanks. They are designed for a single use and a single pressurization cycle. And they quickly can rupture and shoot metal eveywhere when cycled. And then the gas that gets instantly released is explosive. And they normally rupture during the fill process. But they can rupture just sitting. Heck the process of using the gas from them and depressurizing them can also cause them to rupture.

And that is why refilling them is illegal. Acutally refilling them is not illegal. But taking them refilling them and then transporting them on a public roadway while they have any gas in them.

[CarlD]

You can purchase refillable tanks!

https://shop.sportsbasement.com/prod...QaAqKrEALw_wcB

[computerspook]

Originally Posted by CarlD

You can purchase refillable tanks!

https://shop.sportsbasement.com/prod...QaAqKrEALw_wcB

There are some legal refillable tanks. These are not them. You will note that they lack the labeling necessary for interstate transportation. But they might at least be safe. Maybe.

OK almost no cops would know the difference and why would they be looking. But it could be bad if one did.

[John in Michigan]

These 1 lb tanks are DOT certified refillable:

https://flameking.com/product/flmkng164lp/

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by John in Michigan

These 1 lb tanks are DOT certified refillable:

https://flameking.com/product/flmkng164lp/

Maybe I don't get it, but the only refilling example i saw was the "at home" example. That will only equalize the cylinder with gas pressure and no liquid, which means it will be empty an a minute or less.

Is there a way to refill these with liquid?

[John in Michigan]

Originally Posted by Raspy

Maybe I don't get it, but the only refilling example i saw was the "at home" example. That will only equalize the cylinder with gas pressure and no liquid, which means it will be empty an a minute or less.

Is there a way to refill these with liquid?

Short answer is Yes. Flame King sells a refill kit that includes their 20 lb to 1 lb refill adapter and a metal stand for setting the 20 lb container upside down. When refilled using this kit, liquid propane is transferred. One pound of propane is transferred. I was able to confirm this by weighing the one pound cylinder before and after refilling.

[CarlD]

This guy seems to know how to fill them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdM62uoY3pE

[Perryb67]

Originally Posted by John in Michigan

Short answer is Yes. Flame King sells a refill kit that includes their 20 lb to 1 lb refill adapter and a metal stand for setting the 20 lb container upside down. When refilled using this kit, liquid propane is transferred. One pound of propane is transferred. I was able to confirm this by weighing the one pound cylinder before and after refilling.

We have six Flame King 1 lb cylinders and have easily filled each 10 times over the past couple of years. That would be 60 non-recyclable throw away cylinders. Those cylinders cost about $5-7 at stores. Sixty times $5 = $300. We have about $80 into the six Flame King cylinders plus less than $.80 a # for LP (propane), 60 X .80 = $48. So our outlay is $80 + $48 = $128. Our current savings are $172 (300 -128) and less useless tanks in the landfill.

Yes, we're sold on the Flame King tanks.

Enjoy,

Perry

[Perryb67]

Originally Posted by Raspy

Maybe I don't get it, but the only refilling example i saw was the "at home" example. That will only equalize the cylinder with gas pressure and no liquid, which means it will be empty an a minute or less.

Is there a way to refill these with liquid?

To get liquid into the 1 lb tank you must flip your 20 lb tank upside down. When upside down the liquid and the valve are at the bottom so only liquid LP (propane) is transferred to your tank.

I wear rubber gloves when filling our Flame King cylinders. That liquid LP is damn cold!

Enjoy,

Perry

[Larry Meyer]

I am finding the hydroponic heater interesting. I have a 16' scamp with a built in heater that wakes me up when it fires up. I use heat during the shoulder seasons when the temps fall to around freezing. Does anyone info on where to buy 12 volt units, thermostats etc. Thank you.

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

To get liquid into the 1 lb tank you must flip your 20 lb tank upside down. When upside down the liquid and the valve are at the bottom so only liquid LP (propane) is transferred to your tank.

I wear rubber gloves when filling our Flame King cylinders. That liquid LP is damn cold!

Enjoy,

Perry

I get that the supply tank has to be upside down to feed liquid. The thing that seems to make the Flame King bottles work is the vent at the neck that can be opened to bleed pressure off so the liquid can gravity flow into the lower pressure of the bottle being filled. That seems like the problem with the "non-refillable" bottles. But the non-refillable ones do have a safety. I don't want to refill any of those, but it looks like one would have to vent the bottle from the safety to get it to fill with liquid. Obviously, only equalizing gas pressure between the two bottles is not going to do much.

[CarlD]

It's not really gravity flow that fills the bottles, it is the pressure differential. Only so much liquid will flow from the fillor to the fillee, then you have to reduce the pressure in the fillee by venting to cause more liquid to flow. One concern I have with this method is overfilling the fillee. Hopefully the valve protrudes into the tank so you can only fill it up so far, kind of like the OPD on a large tank. I suspect this is one of reason the non refillables are not legal to refill.

[Raspy]

Yeah, the lower pressure bottle would get liquid to equalize the pressure. And the pressure in the fillee will have to be continuously vented to make the process work. No pump involved. Gravity only causes the puddle in the "filler" at the outlet, and the gas bubble above the puddle in the fillee. Overfilling does seem like the most dangerous part of the operation. With no gas bubble at all, the fillee would likely rupture. One could lay the "fillee" on its side to make a gas trap above the puddle. But it seems unlikely that could be counted on as a safety precaution by anyone filling the "non-refillable" bottles.

I don't see how buying the refillable bottles and refilling them is practical. Just get a hose adapter and run the outside stove from the main tanks.

[papa-t]

Originally Posted by computerspook

The heater could be a good idea. It does have a design that is supposed to avoid CO production and it does have an O@ depletion sensor.

That adapter is both dangerous and illegal. The tanks are one use tanks. They are designed for a single use and a single pressurization cycle. And they quickly can rupture and shoot metal eveywhere when cycled. And then the gas that gets instantly released is explosive. And they normally rupture during the fill process. But they can rupture just sitting. Heck the process of using the gas from them and depressurizing them can also cause them to rupture.

And that is why refilling them is illegal. Acutally refilling them is not illegal. But taking them refilling them and then transporting them on a public roadway while they have any gas in them.

I sure hope I don’t get stopped in a Law Enforcement propane check station! I’ll have to make a run for it. Lol

[Perryb67]

Originally Posted by Raspy

I don't see how buying the refillable bottles and refilling them is practical. Just get a hose adapter and run the outside stove from the main tanks.

We not only find them practical, but save money as well with our refillable tanks. We use the tanks for our Mr Buddy heater, Martin heater, and when our 13# tank is empty for our Weber grill and stove.

We have a low pressure outlet on our camper, but the hose needs to be long enough (<50% of the time it is) and we need to modify our appliances. No thanks. YMMV.

Enjoy,

Perry

[Gerry]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, for me I would never have anything with an open flame in an enclosed area. Just too easy to wake up dead!!!