Another question, sorry. How long does it take for a camper to offgas thoroughly? - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV
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Old 08-16-2016, 09:59 PM   #21
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Name: Margaret
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Originally Posted by tractors1 View Post
That's your interpretation.
No, I think it's because he remembers me!

Margaret
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Old 08-16-2016, 10:01 PM   #22
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Name: Margaret
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Originally Posted by Borrego Dave View Post
KC, the OPs question was ask of owners experiences with offgassing of their trailers which has been answered by some. Nothing was asked by her of having a chemical engineer answering or getting involved. She has also said she feels better being in a different state than NC. My wife lived in NC for 10 years, didn't have a health problem with mold but the wet/humid didn't help her. A move from there to a dry climate may be a huge improvement in her health like many have done.
Yes, what I'm really looking for is not engineers, but how do people FEEL in their campers, and how long does it take for the smells and icky feelings to go away!

Margaret
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Old 08-16-2016, 10:03 PM   #23
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Name: Margaret
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Originally Posted by John Linck View Post
We picked up our Scamp in January. When we arrived in Backus it was sitting outside buttoned up and weather tight. It did smell a bit when we opened the door and I am glad we did not spend the night inside that first week. Then we were off for 6 weeks. No problems. Still we keep the roof vent open 24/7/365 using a Camco all weather cover.

The best would be to take Summer delivery and let the trailer cook in the sun for a few days with the windows open. Or run the fan for a week or so. The off gassing lessens over time. Buying a non-smoker's used 2 year old trailer might be best for the chemically sensitive.
John, yes, that's why I'm not buying anything new!!

I realized fairly quickly how impossible that would be for me.

Margaret
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Old 08-16-2016, 10:08 PM   #24
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Name: Margaret
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Originally Posted by Zennifer View Post
The problem is that while some off gassing is stinky, others actually increase as the object ages and are odorless. The pvc vinyl shower curtain I used before knowing better, for example....the danger was in the longer term odorless off gassing, not the initial stink that went away!
That's not good . . . and so many people are putting in vinyl floors, although I would imagine a floor would be less of a problem.

Margaret
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Old 08-16-2016, 10:16 PM   #25
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Name: Margaret
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Originally Posted by Gilda View Post
The question of off-gassing and harmful chemicals is one all of us should consider when acquiring any product/food. Because this is a known health issue for you, you need to be as knowledgeable as possible in your purchase of a trailer, fiberglass or not, new or used.

I Googled "off gassing in new fiberglass trailers" and found this reply, among others. I suggest you make the same Google search for other comments. Anyone concenred about the fiberglass off-gassing? | Scamp Owners International

There are several organizations that address chemical sensitivity as there has been an increase in recognizing this condition as well as for "everyday" folks (for lack of a better description) who care deeply about chemicals that surround us. Google "Chemical Sensitivity Organizations".

When we picked up our new Scamp from the manufacturer in Minnesota we noticed the off-gassing smell. I did not like it, but we had few options and drove, and slept in, the new trailer to our home in California. We kept doors and window open as much as possible. I couldn't tell you when the smell subsided but suggest, when storing the trailer, that you keep it outdoors with windows, roof vents and door open.

I did notice that at the Scamp manufacturing plant that they had several trailers parked outside. They told us that some of them had been ordered but the customers had changed their minds and these trailers were for sale as is.

Perhaps Scamp could build your trailer to your specifications and keep it on their lot vented outdoors for a couple months. Perhaps you could have someone other than yourself pick up and deliver the trailer to you. Perhaps you could have Scamp deliver the trailer to you.

In addition to the fiberglass itself, other items in the Scamp trailer that may have problematic chemicals are:
  1. The cabinet doors and bench hatches are made of pressed wood. You might order the trailer without cabinet doors and hatches, ask for the hinges and knobs, and make your own doors/hatches out of real wood.
  2. The adhesive used to glue on any number of things including flooring and "rat fur" used on the walls. You could ask that these NOT be adhered and use your own adhesive (I don't know what that would be) or ask Scamp to use your requested adhesive. (I'm not sure I would rely on them to do this unless I was there to supervise as they have their usual way of assembly)
  3. The floor itself. Ask that they leave off the flooring and/or give you the flooring and seam covering for you to apply.
  4. I found that my new Scamp had lots of "shavings" that dropped into the wheel well and inside cabinets and benches and smelled. You could ask Scamp to vacuum those and others that drop in the process of manufacture.
  5. The cushions: Both the fabric and the foam. You could have cushion covers made out of a natural fabric without chemical additives such as cotton or wool. I don't think Scamp will do this for you. Latex is a natural rubber foam which is, as far as I know, chemical free. Note: latex is heavy. IKEA sells latex pads.
  6. Sealant is used on all the seams and rivets. This could be toxic.
  7. The sink and icebox are made of plastics.
I realize that the options I've suggested may add to the cost of your trailer and I'm guessing that there may be many other items, depending on the options you request, that will have chemicals that do not agree with you. You are very smart to do "due diligence" before ordering your trailer.

I do hope you find your "dream trailer" and have "happy trails" ahead!

Note: I do see, in one of your previous postings, that you have found a website devoted to non-toxic issues My Chemical-Free House.
No Gilda, that is a perfectly legitimate idea, except I tried it with one manufacturer, and he became so frustrated, I think I drove him nearly batty.

Still not sure what I'm going to do. I thought I had the "perfect" solution after reading the above mentioned book, but it's proving to be much harder than I thought.

The killer is that I've already bought the towing vehicle to the tune of mucho $$. And I still don't know where I want to live, which is where the camper comes in eg, I could drive it around until I figured out where to park my body and my pets permanently?

I had brief email communications with the owner of the chemical sensitive house website; I might try one of her "consultations."

Margaret
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Old 08-16-2016, 10:18 PM   #26
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Name: Margaret
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Originally Posted by DeBreez View Post
My wife has been waiting 40 years for her husband to stop offgassing.
Ha ha! Well if you haven't off gassed by now, I don't think you will!

So she'd better get used to it, or she might have to trade you in for a different model!

Margaret

PS, That's why they call some of us "old farts."
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Old 08-16-2016, 10:23 PM   #27
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Name: Margaret
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Originally Posted by gordon2 View Post
No way Eveland's is going to build a trailer that way you have described. No way no how.

One could perhaps buy an empty shell and then do as you describe, but Eveland's will not. I will bet $1000 on it.

For an idea of what it would take to build out a camper from a shell see http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...ead-75022.html

I know that this is not very helpful for Margaret, but its the way it is.
You would be amazed how much a certain company was actually willing to do for me. They had it pretty much accomplished except for the marine spar varnish (sorry if I got that part wrong), and the company's owner wasn't willing to compromise on that one. These small private companies actually do quite a bit to accommodate their clients.

Margaret

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Old 08-16-2016, 10:57 PM   #28
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One thing that some new home builders are doing to excelerate the speed of off gassing is to close the house up and heat bake it at temperatures of just over 100 degrees for a few weeks.

When you had the idea of buying a trailer that had spent its time in the desert your thinking was about it not being moldy. But that desert life might also mean the off gassing will have been well reduced just by sitting in those hot temperatures.
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Old 08-17-2016, 12:06 AM   #29
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Name: Margaret
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Originally Posted by k corbin View Post
One thing that some new home builders are doing to excelerate the speed of off gassing is to close the house up and heat bake it at temperatures of just over 100 degrees for a few weeks.

When you had the idea of buying a trailer that had spent its time in the desert your thinking was about it not being moldy. But that desert life might also mean the off gassing will have been well reduced just by sitting in those hot temperatures.
Hi k corbin,

My experience so far is that hot sun beating down on a camper makes it stink really bad, but I guess your point is that that means the stuff is evaporating faster?

Margaret
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Old 08-17-2016, 12:18 AM   #30
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my chemical free house website (on campers)


My Chemical-Free House

I've been reading this website, and she has a section on "trailers," (I guess that's what Canadians call campers?)

Anyway, here's where she writes about how she modified a Camplite, which, before 2015 was made of all aluminum, with no carpeting, wood, or plywood.

My Chemical-Free House: Building A Non-Toxic Trailer

Here's her post about fiberglass campers. I've noticed she's added some new info. that wasn't there before:

My Chemical-Free House: Trailers for the Chemically Sensitive

She also writes about custom designed all wood teardrop trailers, which seem completely unrealistic--too heavy, for one thing.

I'm now wondering if I shouldn't contact the Oliver company; she hadn't mentioned Olivers before.

But then, the problem would be that the fiberglass itself would have to offgas for a few years.

Margaret
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Old 08-17-2016, 01:11 AM   #31
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Hi Dave,
I got my ideas for campers from a book by Lisa Petrison and Erik Johnson on mold illness. found the type of location where their symptoms lifted. Their hypothesis (which I don't agree with 100%) is that Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome are caused by mold illness. Margaret
I'd have to disagree also, not that it couldn't or doesn't happen in some cases but stats and studies can tell you anything they want to by how they want to have the results come out and show, $$$ mostly for their future efforts. Happens all the time with a lot of things.
My wife has had Fibro problems since 1996 but mold was never part of it for her. I had pretty bad asthma as a little kid in SW Mich, a move (not my choice) in 1961 to SoCal and cleared it up by '62. Which was why I suggested you move to a drier local. You may find that that may eliminate some of your issues and make life easier for you. One thing I've always found a little off the wall was Grandparents not wanting to move to a location that better suits their health because of the family. To me, the kids of any age can come and visit them. I always loved making the trip back to Mich for a visit and did it many times. Again, good luck to you.
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Old 08-17-2016, 05:27 AM   #32
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Another suggestion is to build your own. Glen L company has many plans for RVs. They have been around forever. Any competent builder should be able to modify the materials list to what you want.
Glen-L RV Plans | Glen-L Boat Plans
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Old 08-17-2016, 08:36 AM   #33
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Another suggestion is to build your own. Glen L company has many plans for RVs. They have been around forever. Any competent builder should be able to modify the materials list to what you want.
Glen-L RV Plans | Glen-L Boat Plans
The creator of this posting has major hand strength issues . She can't build or even remodel a FGRV. She has discussed her hand strength issue in other threads.
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Old 08-17-2016, 09:08 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Lonely Road View Post
My Chemical-Free House

I've been reading this website, and she has a section on "trailers," (I guess that's what Canadians call campers?)

Anyway, here's where she writes about how she modified a Camplite, which, before 2015 was made of all aluminum, with no carpeting, wood, or plywood.

My Chemical-Free House: Building A Non-Toxic Trailer

Here's her post about fiberglass campers. I've noticed she's added some new info. that wasn't there before:

My Chemical-Free House: Trailers for the Chemically Sensitive

She also writes about custom designed all wood teardrop trailers, which seem completely unrealistic--too heavy, for one thing.

I'm now wondering if I shouldn't contact the Oliver company; she hadn't mentioned Olivers before.

But then, the problem would be that the fiberglass itself would have to offgas for a few years.

Margaret
No one here can guarantee you won't have health issues from fiberglass trailers. You are going to have to find that out for yourself by getting out there and actually being inside of them. The time for talking about it is over, the time for action has arrived. Get out there and go into some trailers. If it makes you feel ill walk right back out and don't buy one. Don't worry about plan B until you have checked out plan A. Take some real physical investigative research action. Too much talk and not enough action is happening in your life. Be a doer.
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Old 08-20-2016, 12:27 AM   #35
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Replying to the OP, we got our Scamp delivered new from Backus in April 2015 and it smelled quite a bit when it arrived. My wife is rather sensitive to smells but after 3-4 weeks it was pretty much cleared up and did not bother her. A subjective answer, I know, but smells probably should clear up in weeks and not months.
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Old 08-23-2016, 09:03 AM   #36
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Name: Talia
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Health experts don’t agree that MCS is an illness brought on by the environment.The American Medical Association does not consider multiple chemical sensitivity to be an illness at all. That said, the mind is a powerful thing, and it can make you suffer real symptoms in response to something you believe.

The people who feel they have MCS certainly do experience real suffering, but whether it's caused by external smells/chemicals etc is the question. If you start digging into blogs of people who say they have MCS, you'll find a whole lot of hand-waving distress about "toxins" and other things, but no medical science behind it.

The issues I would point out with MCS is that most of the online pro-MCS information is fear-driven and absolutely riddled with pseudoscience and baseless "facts", and often pushes all sorts of unscientific things on the sufferers, throwing around vague, frightening words like "toxins" without bothering to actually describe what specific thing they mean.

I feel for anyone who suffers from this, but if someone believes they have MCS, then it's not going to matter how "toxin-free" they make their environment. If they believe that they are going to get sick from something they smell, they will get sick, and no environment is free from the smell of the things that make up that environment.
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Old 08-23-2016, 09:22 AM   #37
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When I bought my Escape, the "new trailer" smell was very strong for the first few weeks but dissipated quite a lot over the first year. During the second year, you could still smell the off-gassing if the trailer was closed up for any periods of time. In the third year, I could still slightly notice an off-gassing odour if the trailer had been shut up for several weeks or months. It is now in our 4 year, and that new trailer smell is barely noticeable.


We have visited the Escape factory several times, and each time I thought to myself how strong the new fibreglass and outgassing odors were inside the building, and how it could be challenging for some to work in that environment.
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Old 08-23-2016, 09:41 AM   #38
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Margaret, there is practically nowhere in this country you can avoid exposure to artificial substances, aside from maybe a simple log cabin or cave with furniture made as our ancestors did, with wood, plant fibers, and animal hides. And all such 'natural' substances are made up of many thousands of complex molecules, i.e. chemicals, some of them very pungent and many quite toxic.

And you have pets? Many people are allergic to pet dander. Yours are not a problem?

If you had resources, you could have someone take a basic metal cargo trailer and build you a camper using only materials you approve. But of what? Natural lumber 'outgases' (smells nice to me), as of course do the varnishes, glues, and paints you need to make cabinets, beds, etc. Short of such an approach, as others say, you'll just have to try different living arrangements until you find one that bothers you the least. I rather doubt it's going to be in a trailer.

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Old 08-23-2016, 11:29 PM   #39
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In medicine just because something has not made it onto an organization's list does not mean it is not a real condition. It just means that not enough is known about it to get it on the list. Not knowing enough about something does not mean it is an imaginary condition or that people who have the symptoms are hypochondriacs.

Immunotoxicology and the development of hypersensitivity to chemicals has been well documented in animal studies. But human studies are difficult to get permission to conduct for the obvious reasons of intentionally introducing harmful chemicals into their bodies and environment. If you see it from that perspective you will realize why there is not empirical proof in humans from medical testing results for the condition of multiple chemical sensitivity.

We can't conduct such test as they are considered to be inhumane. What are you going to do force feed chemicals to people to see if you give them enough they will react more strongly in the future to other chemicals? Then do that for enough years to gather the data to prove such a thing as multiple chemical sensitivity exist so that it can make it to some organizations list of recognized diseases? Of course not, we are hopefully no longer that barbaric to other humans. Now we do testing with a person's permission but that is a test no one would be likely to participate in as there is no hope of a cure involved in it and it is a very real danger to the person being tested. We know it exist from the studies done on animals. Leave it be at that and accept that it does exist.
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