Awning fell off new 17' fiberglass unit-Advice

[computerspook]

Originally Posted by gordon2

I don't think that the silicone is the primary attachment method. If it is, I am going to have to question everything I know abut physics and mechanics.

Kind of agreeing on this. But there are some construction adhesives that might look like silicone which would be more than strong enough --- for a while. They would break down.

[computerspook]

Originally Posted by gordon2

All we know is that rivets didn't work in this one case. Perhaps the installer simply grabbed a smaller rivet size in error, than what has been used on other other units.

The sad part is that apparently Casita is not interested in finding out the cause here.. was it their error, owner's error, act of god, etc. IMHO they should do at least a little investigation.

Actually maybe the pop rivits were supposed to have a backer. That maybe it was supposed to have a big washer on the bottom side. On my scamp this is fastened by bolts. But yeah scamp loves rivits. But many of their more loaded rivits have backer washers.

[Geronimo John]

The owner stated that he bought a NEW Casita in 2020, and that it is a 2017 unit.

Likely it sat on their lot next to I-45 for over two years in the hot Texas sun. There is a possibility that it was not originally built with the awning option. But to sell this two year lot sitter, they added the awning to make it more saleable. If that were the case, it would be common practice for an employee from Sales or Service to install the awning vs. the craftsman from the production line that does this on a regular basis.

Hence, chalky fiberglass from years of sun may not have been properly prepared for the silicone. As such, it would not provide the attachment that a line trailer would have. I also suspect that the pop rivets were not fully "pulled". A very common error we have all made at some time in our livers. But more likely the person doing the install, out in the hot sun, may not have had the experience in how to properly pull rivets.

My point is that only Casita can provide real answers to this event. It would be in their best interests to take this seriously and do an investigation as to what and why it happened.

I would also suggest that as a point of good will, they should fly out a qualified technician to the trailer and repair it at the Owner's location of choice. Then advertise that Casita and their Customer Service stand by their warranty and will make things right for the Casita owners.

Just my two cents.

Geronimo John
Oliver Elite II Owner
Hull 347

[redbarron55]

Casita themselves say if the awning is out and the wind blows it falls off.
What more can you say?
It is put on that way for a reason?
Perhaps the reason is that they have rivets and it takes one person from the outside to put it on and it saves them money.
Since they don't warranty the installation of the awning they could care less, evidently.

[Civilguy]

Originally Posted by Civilguy

I think that word will filter through there at Casita and they will realize this is something they bear responsibility for.

I never received a reply to the email I sent to Jonathon on 9/18/20.

[Civilguy]

Originally Posted by Geronimo John

The owner stated that he bought a NEW Casita in 2020, and that it is a 2017 unit.

I thought he said a 17-foot unit, I didn't see any mention of 2017.

Purchased new 17' egg in June 2020, direct from manufacturer.

[redbarron55]

I got a reply and here it is

Jonathan Willis
Tue, Sep 15, 8:20 AM
to me

I’m not sure what your asking?? It is installed properly but if leave it out when its windy it will get ripped off.

As I said if you use it and the wind blows it will get ripped off. I would expect some mickey mouse part of the Fiamma awning would break before it just fell off.

Ridiculous engineering and construction on this item.
They know that it will fall off in the wind. Maybe to protect the awning from failing on the camper it is designed to fall off and fail on the ground when you trip over it

[computerspook]

It would be interesting to see if anyone can comment on how it is normally installed and specifically if there are washers on the inside

[redbarron55]

This is like attaching your parachute with Velcro so that it will rip off before it is damaged when opening in free fall.
The mounting should be secure enough that the awning arms, hinges or other part fails before the thing falls off.
Attachment with a few pop rivets is not sufficient.
Think about the normal stresses from temperature expansion and contraction, Fiberglass and aluminum expand and contract at different rates and sometimes the stress is one way and other times the other. Aluminum expands and contracts at 3 times the rate of fiberglass. This means that the pop rivets are being pushed in one direction and then the other, not to mention the flexure of the shell driving down the road.
The awning is 12 feet long and the stresses are magnified over it's length. Aluminum expands about 1/4" 0* to 100*
This is what causes the other pop rivets to loosen and leak from time to time.
There are three brackets with 4 rivets each for a total of 12 rivets, maybe $2.00 worth of rivets holding on a $1000.00 awning with $10.00 of labor.
The problem is that when a single rivet pulls loose the failure progresses with out a visible warning until it falls off.
If I owned one of these I would bite the bullet and add reinforcements and screws with bolts and the look inside would have to be tolerated.
In my Scamp the inside reinforcements (Large washers) is hidden inside the top cabinets. But then the reinforcements for the solar panel mounts are visible on the ceiling and so far I have been able to live with them.

[redbarron55]

Originally Posted by computerspook

It would be interesting to see if anyone can comment on how it is normally installed and specifically if there are washers on the inside

Casita has stated that the normal installation is pop rivets, no backing washers and an expectation that it will fall off in the wind, no statement as to how much wind.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

Casita has stated that the normal installation is pop rivets, no backing washers and an expectation that it will fall off in the wind, no statement as to how much wind.

But wind is not a factor at all in this case... the OP said...

Originally Posted by flyrodjoe

... stopped for night at CG about 5:30 p.m. No wind, quiet evening. Put out awning carefully as explained in owner's manual. Partially out, I dropped the legs and went inside to get my long nails to hold down the legs. Crash, the awning fell completely off the roof. ...

Not knowing much about this awning, I wonder what happens if the legs are not placed properly and they fold up under the deployed awning. Perhaps user error was part of the problem here but it does seem that the awning should not fall off in this situation, even if the legs are not in the proper place, and even if it is designed to rip off in high winds before flipping or damaging the trailer.

[redbarron55]

I have a Fiammia installed by Scamp on my 16' Scamp.
I have set it out many times and the way it is done is the awning cranks out far enough to pull the legs out of the outer edge box and extend them to the ground. You then walk the awning out and move the legs a little at the time.
There are springs and hinges in the case that allow the awning to flex a little bit.
There is some pull down on the bracket as you crank the awning out to start with until the legs are extended.
If it fell off from normal extension, after it was set with the legs down it is inexcusable.
That slight downward pull evidently pulled out some marginal rivets and peeled it off the shell.
Workmanship and design errors result in damage to property.
With no wind and little pressure form extending it is evident that this awning could have flown off when underway on the highway at speed with who knows what damage and who is responsible if someone is injured.

[redbarron55]

As to being designed to rip off before flipping the camper etc my opinion is that there is no design or evaluation whatever.
If it stays on long enough for the check to clear is all that is necessary.

[computerspook]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

As to being designed to rip off before flipping the camper etc my opinion is that there is no design or evaluation whatever.
If it stays on long enough for the check to clear is all that is necessary.

I have never heard of that with any other campers. Now I have seem people with campers where the canopy itself failed in manners where it might have been designed to do so to be a fail safe. But I can't see the attachment being such a good design idea.

[Borden]

You have a new trailer so problems should not happen and would be out some camping fees as well.
Hope they fix yours as it would be only be right as it is new and should not have problems like that.

We got a new awning and roller for our old arms; I did not make sure that all the Stanley marine rivets in the new track were tight on install and we had a leak my fault what a mess, but you have a new trailer!

The awning we have has set screws in track to stop it from sliding sideways out of the track and disconnecting the legs can be done but is not needed. Our boler arms are curved anyway so we do not do it. Sounds like is could put sideways stress on the upper arm brackets.
Some farm clips that fit tight are also added on the arms so they can not move out from the trailer just in case a bump would knock the arms off at the top bracket tab and awning swing out during driving for safety.

[Borden]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

I have a Fiammia installed by Scamp on my 16' Scamp.
I have set it out many times and the way it is done is the awning cranks out far enough to pull the legs out of the outer edge box and extend them to the ground. You then walk the awning out and move the legs a little at the time.
There are springs and hinges in the case that allow the awning to flex a little bit.
There is some pull down on the bracket as you crank the awning out to start with until the legs are extended.
If it fell off from normal extension, after it was set with the legs down it is inexcusable.
That slight downward pull evidently pulled out some marginal rivets and peeled it off the shell.
Workmanship and design errors result in damage to property.
With no wind and little pressure form extending it is evident that this awning could have flown off when underway on the highway at speed with who knows what damage and who is responsible if someone is injured.

Good reason to get trailer liability insurance each year

[Darwin Maring]

National Highway Traffic Safety should be notified and an inspection by a qualified person.
It could be a problem where their units should be inspected to insure it will not come off while driving. It is a safety issue. You just may find out others have had the same problem.

[redbarron55]

Perhaps this is an awning ripoff?
Perhaps they need to pain a dotted line across the awning as nothing tears along the dotted line...

[Steve Outlaw]

The OP (flyrodjoe) left this thread back on 09/14 in post #26. Apparently he has lost interest.

[Rockytop]

Originally Posted by rdickens

Sadly, I've heard a similar tale from the owners of another brand new trailer that kept leaking and soaking bedding etc inside. [emoji20]

Approximately 6 trips back to Texas with constant "not our fault" excuses and/or "we fixed it" (but they really didn't). As I heard it, the new owners (camping veterans) were ridiculed and accused of stupidity. In the end, rather than the suggested "leaking window", I think it really turned out to be a hard-to-find leaking belly band.

Most manufactures would like to have us believe that every trailer that comes off of their line is "perfect" and "we've never seen that before". Sadly, even with the best of manufacturers, every once in a while something "less than perfect" slips through. When that happens, how their "customer service" handles issues is how some manufacturers really distinguish themselves.

I think I'd probably be inclined to take high detail, close up pictures for documentation, cover the holes temporarily with duct tape, buy a CLAM screen room/tent (to replace the awning functionality), and then go camping.

Lemon laws and bad publicity via social media posts may eventually get a resolution ... we hope.

Sorry it happened!

Best of luck to you!

Ray

That leak story is accurate, but the end of the story is Casita finally replaced the trailer with a brand new one.