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Old 03-11-2021, 11:02 AM   #1
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Name: Ruth
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Battery Connection Wires

My last hope for an easy fix on my 2008 Casita trailer fridge is this connection in the converter box. There are 2 or 3 tiny broken wires out of the 50 attached to the negative screws. Could those 2 or 3 mess up the current to the fridge yet still work the little stuff like lights, which are fine?
None of the 3 methods on my 3-way fridge work. I know it uses DC to start each of the 3 ways, so Iím hoping this battery connection may be the problem rather than the mother board. Battery is almost new. RV guy guesses itís the board but hasnít found a replacement in 6 months (if heís even still looking).
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Old 03-11-2021, 11:04 AM   #2
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any pics?
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Old 03-11-2021, 11:05 AM   #3
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If you have a continuity tester, you could use it to see if any of those ground wires are for the fridge. Alternately, you could run a temporary ground wire to the fridge and see if that fixes the problem.
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Old 03-11-2021, 03:35 PM   #4
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Sorry, I thought the picture had attached not sure why it is sidewaysClick image for larger version

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Old 03-11-2021, 03:55 PM   #5
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Probably is the board, but first thing... its should be easy to check for power (voltage) AT the control board to see if its even getting power. BTW, those lugs are supposed to only have one wire each, and each wire within a given range of sizes. The size (gauge) looks like it probably OK but doubling up the wires can lead to a poor connection.
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Old 03-12-2021, 06:52 AM   #6
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those terminals are designed to hold up to their maximum capacity which should be stamped on it, it can be one wire or multiple as long as it doesn't exceed the maximum capacity as determined by the electrical code it was designed for.
having said that, 2-3 broken strands would not cause an issue. As previously stated, you need to measure with a voltmeter the terminals at the back of the fridge where the feed wires connect. if you can post a model number for the fridge, or a picture of the connection points, we can guide you through the use of a voltage tester if needed.

Joe
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Old 03-12-2021, 09:54 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Joe MacDonald View Post
those terminals are designed to hold up to their maximum capacity which should be stamped on it, it can be one wire or multiple as long as it doesn't exceed the maximum capacity as determined by the electrical code it was designed for...
Well for 12 volt DC systems maybe two wires is permitted.. I can't find anything at the moment that says otherwise.
However, for 120 volt AC wiring this is never permitted and a code violation. Google double tap or double lug. I don't see any reason the same laws of physics that are the reason for the building code would not apply here. It might never be a problem but it does increase the risk of a bad connection.
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Old 03-12-2021, 05:36 PM   #8
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In my area, this is acceptable under the electrical code
Especially for ground wires, often in older panels there are not enough ground bar positions for each wire and it is quite common to twist a dozen ground wires together and put them under one lug. They typically work better with solid than stranded though

Joe
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Old 03-12-2021, 06:20 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by gordon2 View Post
Well for 12 volt DC systems maybe two wires is permitted.. I can't find anything at the moment that says otherwise.
However, for 120 volt AC wiring this is never permitted and a code violation. Google double tap or double lug. I don't see any reason the same laws of physics that are the reason for the building code would not apply here. It might never be a problem but it does increase the risk of a bad connection.
Gordon you hit the nail on the head so Thank you!

They make single barrel lugs for 1 conductor- they make double barrel lugs for two conductors — triple barrel lugs for 3 conductors —- 4 barrel lugs for 4 conductors IE ; One lug = 1 wire - If you want to connect multiple conductors to a lug it needs to be UL listed for the purpose . If you want to see pictures of multiple wire lugs , you can find them on the internet

The days of shoving 2-3 or 4 neutral / equipment ground wires under one screw / lug is over
Common practice is to install additional equipment grounding buses in the service panel - Neutrals go in neutral bar - equipment grounds go in the equipment grounding bar. Only one wire under each set screw

Circuit breaker terminals are also limited to a single conductor unless rated and designed for multiple conductors

Wire termination are also required to be torqued to UL / NEC standards
This is especially important with aluminum conductors

Just because somebody does something and it works doesn’t mean it’s code compliant or safe . Lots of things are done out of ignorance , laziness or trying to save a couple of pennies
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Old 03-12-2021, 06:32 PM   #10
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Gordon you hit the nail on the head so Thank you!
..
No, thank YOU! BTW, not bad for a guy with no electrician's license, no formal training as an electrician, and no more qualifications than to be willing to do the research to do it right.
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Old 03-12-2021, 07:01 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by gordon2 View Post
No, thank YOU! BTW, not bad for a guy with no electrician's license, no formal training as an electrician, and no more qualifications than to be willing to do the research to do it right.
I assume you are being facetious but
1) I served a 6 year union electrical apprenticeship and I was taught to do it right
2) I was a State licensed journeyman Electrician for over 40 years
3 )I held a State master electrician license for close to 40 years
4 ) I was a State licensed electrical vocational college instructor for 35 years
5) Iím not half as dumb as some people think
6 ) Finally ,My answer did not come from Wikipedia
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Old 03-12-2021, 07:20 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
I assume you are being facetious but...
I was referring to myself.
I am aware of your qualifications and that is why I thanked YOU for confirming what this untrained and unlicensed guy believed to be factually correct.
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Old 03-18-2021, 10:55 AM   #13
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Returns

If a single load has multiple return wires it is bad as one will end up with all the current (for copper wire), then melting.
If there is one source (battery or AC) each load should have a return connected as close to the source as possible. That said note that the common bar in your house is nowhere near the power pole!
Multiple returns per lug is no longer allowed but you are not required to fix what you donít touch.
(Ok there are a bunch of strange rules for things like cow barns I am ignoring)

The question is about broken stands in stranded wire. One in eight broken is in the wire ratings. However it is best not to start that way as strands do brake over time in vehicle. The wire is twisted to assure even heat spread and the induction field is straight down the set pushing the current across the strands to rebalance after a break.

Even at 12v remember arcs can blind you and cause burns. Best to use a voltmeter with the battery disconnected to find issues. If that fails suck it up and take it to a professional.
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Old 03-18-2021, 01:06 PM   #14
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If a single load has multiple return wires it is bad as one will end up with all the current (for copper wire), then melting.
That's actually the OPPOSITE of what happens.
One load with multiple return wires will allow the wires to SHARE the current load.

Now if you have two wires sharing the current and one of them becomes disconnected, THEN the other wire will need to handle all the current and <might> melt if it's not big enough.

I bet that's what you meant and I just misunderstood you.

Thanks.
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