Boler Electrical Questions

[adriemel83]

Project Boler has begun.

The biggest upgrade planned for my '72 Boler 1300 is to install a 12v system.

Currently there is a 110 AC system and that is all. All the lights were removed, save a 1.5 ft florescent over the sink/counter, and the Ice box was replaced with a mini-bar fridge. There is a dual plug recepticle also installed into the counter.

I would like to install a 12v system to allow for self reliance for those non-plug in camping trips (which will be the majority or the trips!) I am looking for info of what I need to install to achieve this. my research has brought me to

Battery---> inverter---> appliances/lights/etc

The other components I have come across include chargers, isolation relays and system control panels to show battery strength, and system, status

End result, I plan to install 2-4 dome lights, and have the existing fridge and outlet run off 12v while being able to charge when plugged into a 110AC source, and/or through the car allternator when driving.

Looking for info, system diagrams, and any other assistance and experience that may be out there!

Thanks
Adam

[Byron Kinnaman]

First check for installed wiring. If the previous just took out the fixtures the wiring might still be in place.
Battery of course
Inverter... Maybe, but probably not. Remember 120volt electrical appliance draw a lot of current and run batteries down. A battery charger for when connected to shore power is a nice thing. A charge line from your Tow Vehicle charges the battery while towing.
As for a Schematic look in the documents section for Scamp Schematic or Diagram. You can't go wrong following that. Just replace the converter with a fuse block.
If you have trouble look around for somebody that has some electrical knowledge that can follow a schematic, some amateur radio operators might be one place to look.

For Schematics look

[Donna D.]

See here for the diagram Byron referrenced: Scamp Wiring Diagram

[adriemel83]

The schematic looks pretty simply, I find electrical diagrams are very similar to hydraulic diagrams, so here we go!
thanks

The pic looks good for the wiring within the trailer unit, where does the charge power come from to charge while driving? is it the lead coming off the white wire?

[Peter_Crowl]

To obtain a 12 volt source from the tow vehicle you'd have to install a 7 pin connector such as used by those towing rigs with electric brakes. A wire that provides constant 12 volts from the vehicles battery is connected - typically - to pin 4 of the connector set. You then run a wire from the trailer connector carrying that constant 12 volts to the battery. Plan on using a #10 wire at least. Truth is, this system doesn't provide a heck of a lot of charge to your trailer battery - but it helps. Remember to disconnect from the tow vehicle when parked lest you drain your start battery. You could install an isolater to avoid this drain, but they inherently cause a drop to the battery and render a small charge even less effective.

I'm installing a Progressive Dynamics PD4045 Charger/Converter/Distribution panel in the '80 Boler. It's a nice unit providing everything you need in one box. I placed in in the small cabinet under the furnace. They provide 45 amps at 12 volts which is sufficient for the load(s) and also serve as both a 12 volt fuse buss and 120 volt breaker panel. About $145-$175 depending on where you get it. I bought mine from R-P Carriages in Seneca Illinois. They have a large Ebay store and provide excellent customer service.
12V Distribution Control Panel+ 45A Converter PD4045 RV | eBay

Peter
N0LLL

[Greg H]

Boler has a six pin, no brakes.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Crowl

To obtain a 12 volt source from the tow vehicle you'd have to install a 7 pin connector such as used by those towing rigs with electric brakes. A wire that provides constant 12 volts from the vehicles battery is connected - typically - to pin 4 of the connector set. You then run a wire from the trailer connector carrying that constant 12 volts to the battery. Plan on using a #10 wire at least. Truth is, this system doesn't provide a heck of a lot of charge to your trailer battery - but it helps. Remember to disconnect from the tow vehicle when parked lest you drain your start battery. You could install an isolater to avoid this drain, but they inherently cause a drop to the battery and render a small charge even less effective.

I'm installing a Progressive Dynamics PD4045 Charger/Converter/Distribution panel in the '80 Boler. It's a nice unit providing everything you need in one box. I placed in in the small cabinet under the furnace. They provide 45 amps at 12 volts which is sufficient for the load(s) and also serve as both a 12 volt fuse buss and 120 volt breaker panel. About $145-$175 depending on where you get it. I bought mine from R-P Carriages in Seneca Illinois. They have a large Ebay store and provide excellent customer service.
12V Distribution Control Panel+ 45A Converter PD4045 RV | eBay

Peter
N0LLL

The effectiveness of the charge line depends on the vehicle and works better without an isolator. I can run my fridge and charge my battery at the same time while driving because I have an extra heavy duty alternator. An isolator will reduce the voltage available to charge the battery. If you're worried about running down the tow battery there's two thing you can do that will work better than an isolator. One is to simply, as you said, unplug the trailer. The other is to add a solenoid relay that only comes with the ignition switch.

A good battery charger is better than a "Converter" and a 45 amp converter is way way overkill for these little trailers.

[Peter_Crowl]

Originally Posted by Greg H

Boler has a six pin, no brakes.

Right and in fact a flat 4 would work just as well on mine but my TV is 7 pin so I mate up to it.

A good battery charger is better than a "Converter" and a 45 amp converter is way way overkill for these little trailers.

As for the charger vs converter issue - yeah - you can go either way. The PD has a 3 stage charger as part of its circuitry. 45 amps might be overkill depending on your loads but the price difference is minimal on integrated units.

Here's a nice 10 amp 3 stage charger
3 Stage Smart Battery Charger 12 Volt, 10 Amp, 1 Bank

But it's $100 - for $50 more you can get the PD4045 and have everything in one box.

Or this one - the typical low price battery charger for $40 although it's not 3 stage and while they don't provide a schematic it's safe to assume the output is unfiltered
2/6 Amp, 6/12 Volt Battery Charger



There are a lot of ways to go .. you go your way - I go mine.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Crowl

Right and in fact a flat 4 would work just as well on mine but my TV is 7 pin so I mate up to it.

A good battery charger is better than a "Converter" and a 45 amp converter is way way overkill for these little trailers.

As for the charger vs converter issue - yeah - you can go either way. The PD has a 3 stage charger as part of its circuitry. 45 amps might be overkill depending on your loads but the price difference is minimal on integrated units.

Here's a nice 10 amp 3 stage charger
3 Stage Smart Battery Charger 12 Volt, 10 Amp, 1 Bank

But it's $100 - for $50 more you can get the PD4045 and have everything in one box.

Or this one - the typical low price battery charger for $40 although it's not 3 stage and while they don't provide a schematic it's safe to assume the output is unfiltered
2/6 Amp, 6/12 Volt Battery Charger



There are a lot of ways to go .. you go your way - I go mine.

OK, so put in a 45 Amp source running 20 Amp Maximum trailer. Yup, makes sense NOT!

[adriemel83]

I am currently running off a 4-flat plug, I don't have anything that requires power like a TV or microwave or anything. A small bar fridge style fridge, maybe 1.5 cubic ft. Not sure of the draw from it, it has been fairly resilient to my removal techniques so far!

[Peter_Crowl]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

OK, so put in a 45 Amp source running 20 Amp Maximum trailer. Yup, makes sense NOT!

Why is it essential that things be done your way?
I was careful to point out that this is my choice and that there are, indeed, others.

[Greg H]

Originally Posted by Peter_Crowl

Right and in fact a flat 4 would work just as well on mine but my TV is 7 pin so I mate up to it.

A good battery charger is better than a "Converter" and a 45 amp converter is way way overkill for these little trailers.

As for the charger vs converter issue - yeah - you can go either way. The PD has a 3 stage charger as part of its circuitry. 45 amps might be overkill depending on your loads but the price difference is minimal on integrated units.

Here's a nice 10 amp 3 stage charger
3 Stage Smart Battery Charger 12 Volt, 10 Amp, 1 Bank

But it's $100 - for $50 more you can get the PD4045 and have everything in one box.

Or this one - the typical low price battery charger for $40 although it's not 3 stage and while they don't provide a schematic it's safe to assume the output is unfiltered
2/6 Amp, 6/12 Volt Battery Charger



There are a lot of ways to go .. you go your way - I go mine.

I went my way with a 4 pin and added a battery and solar panel. Oh yeah and a charge controller. Oh yeah and a gauge in the cabinet so I can see what's going on.

[adriemel83]

well, looks like |I have a few things to work out, and a few options. Still on the interior bebuild part at the moment, so I will revist this once ready.

Mucho Thanks!

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Crowl

Why is it essential that things be done your way?
I was careful to point out that this is my choice and that there are, indeed, others.

Sorry, You can do what want of course.
But, others might like to know that some things people do and talk about are not the ideal way. Most of these trailers have 20 amp wiring, going to a 45 amp converter is double the capacity of wiring. A lower amp converter is cheaper and as effective. Therefore if a person wanted to save a few dollars something closer to 20 amp will do it very nicely. In-fact I doubt there's ever more than 10 amp draw out the converter. I haven't monitored the current coming out of the converter so I can't say for sure. The most current would be when the battery is fully discharged, typically a 74amp hour battery would not want more than 10 amp charging current.

There you have it information for general consumption.

[Perry J]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

Sorry, You can do what want of course.
But, others might like to know that some things people do and talk about are not the ideal way.

You have hit upon a point that has bothered me since I have been a member.

Most advice is great, but I have to bite my tongue, or typing finger, when I read some of the advice given on this site.

I have sent more than one PM rather than point out what experience has taught me is incorrect advice.

I'm not referring to you Byron. You give good advice backed up by a logical explanation as in this case.

Your opening line was what caught my eye and caused me to write this.
JOHN

[Andy B]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

OK, so put in a 45 Amp source running 20 Amp Maximum trailer. Yup, makes sense NOT!

Since I am still in the restoration phase, I have not yet purchased a converter. I am planning on a 45 amp converter even though it is more power than I will use because of the following reasons.

1) Cost, size and weight not much different than a 30 amp converter.

2) Most converters use cooling fans that come on when needed (high power), using the converter at less than half it's capacity may mean the fan will not run and some people have complained of noisy converter fans.

3) Using only a fraction of rated capacity may mean longer life.

4) The converter I am looking at that has the converter and AC/DC distribution panel all in one, is not available in less than 45 amp size.

I think my reasoning makes sense.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Andy B

Since I am still in the restoration phase, I have not yet purchased a converter. I am planning on a 45 amp converter even though it is more power than I will use because of the following reasons.

1) Cost, size and weight not much different than a 30 amp converter.

2) Most converters use cooling fans that come on when needed (high power), using the converter at less than half it's capacity may mean the fan will not run and some people have complained of noisy converter fans.

3) Using only a fraction of rated capacity may mean longer life.

4) The converter I am looking at that has the converter and AC/DC distribution panel all in one, is not available in less than 45 amp size.

I think my reasoning makes sense.

Number 4 is the only one that makes sense. However my overkill 30 Amp has both an AC and a DC distribution panel.

I've seen these statements before. The fan won't run as much is a myth. Longer life is myth.

A couple things I have tendency to equate these type of reasoning too.
1. If was going to get a generator I better at least a 5KW even though I don't have Air Conditioning or a Microwave Oven.
2. I need to have Power Diesel to pull my 2000lb trailer.

My 2 cents worth.

[Peter_Crowl]

Originally Posted by Andy B

Since I am still in the restoration phase, I have not yet purchased a converter. I am planning on a 45 amp converter even though it is more power than I will use because of the following reasons.

1) Cost, size and weight not much different than a 30 amp converter.

2) Most converters use cooling fans that come on when needed (high power), using the converter at less than half it's capacity may mean the fan will not run and some people have complained of noisy converter fans.

3) Using only a fraction of rated capacity may mean longer life.

4) The converter I am looking at that has the converter and AC/DC distribution panel all in one, is not available in less than 45 amp size.

I think my reasoning makes sense.

I was about to point out the AC distribution panel that's integral to the 4045 but you covered that base. With it I can have separate circuits for the refrigerator and the AC - and still have one to spare.

I fail to see how choosing a converter/charger/distribution panel product such as this and suggesting it to others can be construed as incorrect advice.

[Andy B]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

I've seen these statements before. The fan won't run as much is a myth. Longer life is myth.

Here are some quotes from 2 different converter descriptions...

"INTELLIGENT COOLING FAN – A solid state temperature sensing and control system operates the cooling fan only under high load conditions"

"VARIABLE SPEED FAN AUTOMATICALLY ADJUSTS COOLING FAN AS NEEDED TO CONTROL UNIT TEMPERATURE"

I don't think the people selling these things are using myths for marketing, maybe you are not familiar with newer converters.

Is there any statistical data that shows that longer life is myth or is that just your opinion?

I just looked and compared the same brand 30 and 45 amp converter on ebay, they were the same dimensions, and the 45 amp weighs 1/2 lb more. The 45 amp converter could be purchased for less than the 30 amp, most likely because so many more of them are sold.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Crowl

I was about to point out the AC distribution panel that's integral to the 4045 but you covered that base. With it I can have separate circuits for the refrigerator and the AC - and still have one to spare.

I fail to see how choosing a converter/charger/distribution panel product such as this and suggesting it to others can be construed as incorrect advice.

Note:
I said that's the only reason you listed that makes sense, the rest is based on myth.