Butyl Tape, Silicone and sealing

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Joe Z

I like your idea better ....sometimes a simple solution flies right over my head and will give that a try next time.
Joe

I'm wondering now, on my new used eggcamper, it appears that the prior owner used silicone on the fantastic vent install as well as other locations on the roof. Should I wait until there is a leak or start removing the silicone and replacing it with butyl? How do I determine what is currently on the trailer? Is there some sort of litmus test for silicone to determine if it is indeed silicone or something else? Thanks

[Mark J]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Should I wait until there is a leak or start removing the silicone and replacing it with butyl? How do I determine what is currently on the trailer? Is there some sort of litmus test for silicone to determine if it is indeed silicone or something else? Thanks

I have a similar situation with my trailer. I have what I thought was silicone around the door and on the roof. The litmus test comes when you spend a few minutes trying to reomove some of the caulk. I started with the door and found it VERY difficult to remove so I know it is silcone caulk that I am dealing with.

I have yet to finish the door let alone the roof. Now I am waiting till next spring. I even purchased some Motsenbockers Liftoff which is a silicone/latex caulk & foam sealant remover (as stated on the label & comes in 4.5 fl. oz. bottles). So far the remover has been of limited but perhaps somewhat helpful in it's described use.
________________________________________________
The bottom line: it takes hours to removel silicone caulk

[Andrew Gibbens]

This suggestion may be relevant, even if it doesn't first sound like it. My convertible car had serious squeak problems which I pinned down to the seals between the windows and convertible top. The parts guy at the car dealership recommended a silicone remover which just eliminated those squeaks a year ago, by getting the rubber seals to 'stick' to the windows and not slip/squeak.

Of course I don't know if it removed all the silicone that was there from new but it removed enough to bring friction back. It is a BMW dealer so it was surprising that the remover was 'only' about $6 for a small bottle (quarter-to-half pint). No doubt a more economic and more convenient source exists.

I've never tried the home maintenance 'silicone remover' products but I suspect they may be a more general product that this. I would be interested to know if this BMW product would 'clean up' where silicon sealant has been scraped off, but I don't have any suitable examples to test it on. But it is up there in my personal 'wonder products' list.

[Joe Z]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I'm wondering now, on my new used eggcamper, it appears that the prior owner used silicone on the fantastic vent install as well as other locations on the roof. Should I wait until there is a leak or start removing the silicone and replacing it with butyl?
If it's not leaking i would wait unless your looking for something to do..... Under the fantastic fan is a regular gasket that gets sandwiched in between the fan and the fiberglass roof... The sealant is probably just around the edges to finish it off.... My fantastic fan has globs of caulk around the perimeter and it's not leaking and don't need any extra work right now
How do I determine what is currently on the trailer? Is there some sort of litmus test for silicone to determine if it is indeed silicone or something else? I'm not sure how to tell and could use that answer myselfThanks

Joe

[Raya]

I started to write this yesterday, but then it sounded so ..... vague... that I erased it and didn't post. But, I'll try!

On the silicone: If it's clear (probably dirty clear by now), it's probably silicone. There are a couple of other clear caulks, I think, but every time I've seen clear caulk on a fiberglass camper or boat it has been silicone.

If it's white, it could be silicone, but also has a good chance to be one of a number of other caulks.

Texture: Sure, all caulks are resilient, but silicone is just..... ruuuubbery. This is the part where I stopped typing yesterday. Because of course most caulks could fit this description. But silicone is really rubbery/stretchy. You think you have it off your trailer, it's ten feet away, and then it bounces back and sticks It's like the evil version of a Knox Blox (you know, those hardened Jello candies).

Now you see why I didn't post this yesterday. If I could see/touch the caulk in person, I could tell you in two seconds whether it was silicone or not, but in words it's hard to describe.

There also seems to be a cruel inverse relationship: The more a PO piled on the caulk, and the bigger the globs are, the more likely it is to be silicone



Raya

[cpaharley2008]

Thanks Raya,
For taking the time and thought in formulating your response. If we ever meet at a Rally I'd like to blindfold you and watch you do your stretch test on some roofs- just kidding. Thanks again

[astroboy]

Originally Posted by Tim D.

A local rv person recommended Vulkem for sealing around windows and vents. He swears by the stuff and it is cheap--less that $5/caulk-gun-tube at Jerry's, our local home improvement center in Eugene.

http://www.tremcosealants.com/commercial/p...mp;product_id=4

Vulkem 921

Product Description:
Vulkem 921 is a one-part moisture curing, gun grade polyurethane sealant. Vulkem 921 is low modulus, durable, flexible, and offers excellent performance in moving joints. Vulkem 921 does not require a primer on most construction materials.

Basic Uses:
Vulkem 921 is an excellent general purpose sealant designed for use in precast, masonry, window and door frame perimeters and similar types of construction joints. Vulkem 921 is also suitable for continual immersion in water with the use of appropriate Vulkem primer. Vulkem 921 is designed for exterior and interior use.

Does anyone have experience with it? I plan to test it around a vent on the roof before sealing around the windows of my 1986 Bigfoot.

Just as a follow up to this, Tremco has a very user friendly website and I was able to get a free sample of this product sent to me for trial (sent them to my office. I will keep everyone posted on the results. I don't want to unleash a barrage of "sample requests" onto Tremco from fellow fiberglassrv owners, but the two tubes came in a week and if it works, I will definitely order some to finish off the windows. I'm going to test it on my roof vent, that seems to have a small leak.
Regards all
Kyle

[cpaharley2008]

In research for FlexiSeal it states it is a silicone base caulk. I thought this entire discussion was on the merits of not using silicone on fiberglass? Now I'm confused, after Butyl tape. what do we use to seal the edges?
PRO-SPEC FLEXI-SEAL WINDOW & GLASS SILICONE SEALANT

[Donna D.]

The point is, you don't seal the edges of the windows.

[Bill K]

Scamp does.

Bill K

Originally Posted by Donna D.

The point is, you don't seal the edges of the windows.

[cpaharley2008]

In response #4 on first page, after installing butyl tape, the owner then seals the edge with Flexiseal. which according to the manufacturer is a silicone base caulk? So do we need to use a different sealer after using the butyl tape?

[Joe Z]

I use something that i purchased in Lowes called "POLYSEAMSEAL" it's an adhesive/caulk and contains no Silicone and comes in "white" I used it for a few years on various small applications and have had no side effects yet. I also used 3M 5200 which is excellent but it is not removable which limits the use of it.... 3M has something that is removable and i forget the number on it and it contains no silicone..... I believe it's 4200 but not sure?
Joe

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by Bill K

Scamp does.

Bill K

Interesting, I've yet to see any molded trailer where caulk has been put around the outside of windows by the manufacturer. Guess I need to pay more attention. I know Scamp didn't on my 1988, but that was nearly 23 years ago and I suppose things have changed since then.

[Bill K]

Mine is a 2009 and I went out and looked at the windows before saying it was that way. LOL

Bill K

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Interesting, I've yet to see any molded trailer where caulk has been put around the outside of windows by the manufacturer. Guess I need to pay more attention. I know Scamp didn't on my 1988, but that was nearly 23 years ago and I suppose things have changed since then.

[MyronL]

Sealing around the outside edges of a window makes absolutely no sense to me at all. I have removed and recaulked all my eggs' windows using butyl tape and nothing else, and cannot see the logic of additional edge caulking. No leaks. Always a clean, simple to do job.

Where the butyl squeezes out the exterior edge if the application is too thick, it gets easily trimmed off with a putty knife. In any case, the butyl is a barrier where the gaps in the inner egg shell face the metal window frame. That's where any water gets blocked. What does added outside edge caulking accomplish, other than creating an ugly, visible bead?

[closefan]

Originally Posted by Con

I also drilled out every pop rivet and replaced them with 10-24x 3/4" Truss Head Stainless Steel bolts (Total cost $6.00 for 100, the SS Accron nuts for the inside were a bit more exspensive) and used white plastic washers under them on the out side.

Hey there Con. Thanks for ALLLLLL the info you've provided. I am pretty new the board, and owning MY FIRST BOLER!!!

I am excited and noticed the websites you posted from Bolt Depot - Nuts and Bolts, Screws and Fasteners online .

My question to you is... Can you specifically tell me which screws, nuts, and washers to buy?

I have a 78 Boler but don't exactly know how long and thick they should be...

So far I've gathered you bought the:

Stainless steel 18-8, Diameter: #10-24, Product # 6929, 3/4 (x100 units)

Then I got lost...

I gathered that you used a Stainless steel 18-8 Cap Nut but I don't know the size...

I assume its Product #2544, Size 10-24 ? (x100 units)

And I also didn't know which washer specifically to buy.

And why did you use the length you chose? Did you pull out a Rivet, and measure it from that?

I figure there is a distance between the Outside of the FG and the Insolite.

I have all original interior so I wonder if I can just buy the stuff as you.

Thank you!

Manoel

[Gumpit]

I just replaced the roof vent on my Trillium. I used the Butyl tape and it squeezed out nicely when I screwed it down. I would still like to overkill it and seal up the edges with something as well as the screw heads. Is Flexiseal the preferred choice still or the Marine type stuff. 4200 or 5200? Where can I get the Flexiseal? The RV place couldn't find it and I didn't see it at West Marine either. Thanks Randy

[Joe Z]

I just had somebody on another forum that is a big boat fixer and he recommended "Lifecalk Sealant" as one of his favorites for rivet caps and small jobs like that....The 3M 5200 is very hard to remove.... the 3M 4200 is also a good removable choice....
Has anybody on here used LifeCalk that can give there experiences with that product
Joe

Lifecalk:
Amazon.com: lifecalk: Sports & Outdoors

[BigMike]

Originally Posted by Patrick J

Forgive my stupid question here. How exactly do you punch out the tube to get the correct size gasket? Do you put the gasket under the SS washer? So from the outside in it goes - outside - Machine Screw Head, SS Washer, Gasket - inside - SS Washer, Hex Nut, Acorn Nut?

Patrick

I bought neoprene backed washers at:

Gogel Walter Company
1819 North 13th Street
Toledo, OH 43604-5285
(419) 243-4545

They also carry the SS button head bolts and screws and I opted for SS lock nuts with a nylon lock around the inner threads as opposed to the acorn nuts. I wanted to control the tension of the bolts and not be subject to the bolts bottoming out in the nut.

[LurkerDan]

So, I have a few small leaks around my windows and ceiling vent. While I know that removing and reinstalling would be the way to go, I don't have the expertise or the time right now to gain the expertise. And the leaks are small, so a little sealant would probably last me a good long time.

So what product should I be using to add a little extra seal along the window gaskets?