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Old 06-27-2021, 06:06 PM   #1
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Name: Kathleen & Howard
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Can't get the wheel off!!

My name is Kathleen and my husband and I are the lucky recipients of a 1973 13' Tote'n Tarry. Looks like the Boler, but the Tote'N Tarry was the knock-off.

We only recently got it home and decided to get the rims and tires replaced, but no matter how we've tried, we can't get the tire and rims out of the wheel well. I've attached a picture of the tire and what we are doing. We've jacked up the unit in multiple ways but nothing seems to make a difference. We let the air out of the tire thinking this would help, but no go. We are so frustrated.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks so much!!! K
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Old 06-27-2021, 06:20 PM   #2
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You might have to carefully lift on the shell in addition to having the tour of the ground.

It does seem like the axle is allowing too much drop of the frame and shell. I would check it out as you may need to replace it.
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Old 06-27-2021, 06:32 PM   #3
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Deflate the tire. I would try a ratchet tie down strap to deform the tire. If that didn't work I'd cut the tire off.
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Old 06-27-2021, 07:13 PM   #4
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You have a rubber torsion axle. Normally the rubber inside the axle will decompress and allow the hub to drop down as you lift the frame, providing just enough clearance to get the wheel out. It’s tight on my newer Scamp 13, especially on the door side.

Torsion axles were designed with a working lifespan of 15-20 years. Very old axles sometimes become “frozen”- the rubber hardens and the hubs won’t move up or down. My guess is that’s what has happened. Your wheel is stuck inside the well because the axle is frozen in the compressed position.

That means you basically have no suspension. Running on a frozen axle usually means a very harsh, bouncy ride. It also transfers the stress of every bump to the frame and shell, both of which can develop stress fractures from the pounding, so it’s not something you want to ignore. The fix is a new axle, so…

You might want to leave that wheel on for now. You’ll need it to get the trailer to a shop for the axle replacement (or at least an assessment to confirm my armchair diagnosis).
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Old 06-27-2021, 08:47 PM   #5
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Name: Kathleen & Howard
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California
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A BIG Thank You!!

So appreciate the replies!!

RAZ - we thought about cutting the tire off, but then worried about how to get a new one back on. We probably would have seen the problem with the rim off, but worried if there was something else, we wouldn't be able to haul it anywhere for service.

JON and JIM - I believe you are both right about the axel. I just spoke with my son and he said "Mom - it's probably the torsion axel". It took a few YouTube video's to even figure out what he was talking about, but I understand now that this is the most likely problem. Our little camper sat in the original owner's garage for almost 25 years, so I guess things can get rigid after that much time.

We'll start looking for a shop that can replace the axel and then begin the other work that needs to be done.

Thanks again for your replies.

Happy Camping, Kathleen
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Old 06-28-2021, 04:33 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raz View Post
Deflate the tire. I would try a ratchet tie down strap to deform the tire. If that didn't work I'd cut the tire off.
Potential solution for removal, but you still have to get the new tire back on, so not a complete solution.
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Old 06-28-2021, 06:03 AM   #7
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Potential solution for removal, but you still have to get the new tire back on, so not a complete solution.
I disagree. The thread is titled Can't get the wheel off

.......we can't get the tire and rims out of the wheel well. ...........Does anyone have any suggestions?

A complete solution for what was asked. Until Jon mentioned the axle, I was thinking perhaps the previous owner put oversized tires on??
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Old 06-28-2021, 07:23 AM   #8
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Removal

Not that it solves the axle problem but it is possible to put the trailer up on four good maintenance jack stands and with two good chain wrenches and perhaps a cheater pipe on one or both, rotate the stuck axle back to its original aspect. Might take a
pretty good shot of lubricant on the rubber inserts. Once rotated, the wheel should have clearance. Cutting the tire off the rim is not easy, that steel cable inside the tire bead is pretty tough. I’d only go through the rotation exercise if the tires were too rotten to tow on. If they aren’t, tow the whole rig to a shop or jack it up at home and start in on it. Alignment of the new axle is critical for towing and tire wear “down the road”. Best of luck, think it through and take your time.
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Old 06-28-2021, 01:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raz View Post
Until Jon mentioned the axle, I was thinking perhaps the previous owner put oversized tires on??
You folks with open wheel wells don't have to deal with this problem!

For the OP, if you do end up getting a new axle it might be worth the trouble to switch to a conventional trailing position (most of the old ones were leading, with the axle arms pointed toward the front). That would allow you to raise the cabin a few inches, making future tire changes a little easier and gaining some road clearance. The stepped frame design is a bit complicated, so you may have to check with a few shops to find one that's comfortable making such changes. Even better if you can find one with Boler/Scamp/clone experience.
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Old 06-28-2021, 01:28 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Raz View Post
I disagree. The thread is titled Can't get the wheel off

.......we can't get the tire and rims out of the wheel well. ...........Does anyone have any suggestions?

A complete solution for what was asked. Until Jon mentioned the axle, I was thinking perhaps the previous owner put oversized tires on??
I disagree with your disagreeing, don't know if that is a word, in the text the OP stated "We only recently got it home and decided to get the rims and tires replaced", so obviously they would like to put new rims and tires on.
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Old 06-30-2021, 07:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
You have a rubber torsion axle. Normally the rubber inside the axle will decompress and allow the hub to drop down as you lift the frame, providing just enough clearance to get the wheel out. It’s tight on my newer Scamp 13, especially on the door side.

Torsion axles were designed with a working lifespan of 15-20 years. Very old axles sometimes become “frozen”- the rubber hardens and the hubs won’t move up or down. My guess is that’s what has happened. Your wheel is stuck inside the well because the axle is frozen in the compressed position.

That is my guess.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Raz View Post
Until Jon mentioned the axle, I was thinking perhaps the previous owner put oversized tires on??

Oversized is also likely. When they stopped making the 6.000 x 13 the suggested match was an upsize. See my first link below.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowa Dave View Post
Not that it solves the axle problem but it is possible to put the trailer up on four good maintenance jack stands and with two good chain wrenches and perhaps a cheater pipe on one or both, rotate the stuck axle back to its original aspect. Might take a
pretty good shot of lubricant on the rubber inserts. Once rotated, the wheel should have clearance.
Iowa Dave
You have the right idea Dave. I'm not so sure about the lubricant though.


I encountered almost this exact problem at bolerama 15 years ago and made a post about it with pictures.
https://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/...tml#post133630
Essentially I jacked the trailer up, then used a pry bar and a jack to lower the torsion arm enough to get the new tire on. The end of the pry bar goes over the top of the torsion arm, under the frame, then onto a jack. So when you lift the jack, it pulls the arm down. (you have to do one side at a time)



I think the Tote'n Tarry (sp?) was one of the companies that used the boler American molds, so it should be similar. If so, I also created a thread on doing an axle swap where I change the torsion arm from leading to trailing. That is a long technical thread.


It took me a while to find my axle swap thread. During one of the software changes for the site they munged up the links. All my hard work cross referencing stuff went out the window. Given that they have taken away the ability to edit one's own posts, I am unable to fix the broken link. I think that is part of the reason I stopped posting as much as I used to.



Link to my axle swap thread:
https://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/...arm-37248.html
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Old 06-30-2021, 08:12 PM   #12
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Always more than one way to skin a cat. The main concern is to work with safety in mind. Don’t work alone and have a plan if something goes wrong. Take your time, results not speed is the goal and in my world, lubrication has never hurt. When we used to grease cars back in the day all the rubber mounts were liberally sprayed with a rubber protectant and lubricant to eliminate squeaks. The product was called RuGlyde and I sprayed many gallons though an alemite gun especially on the cars of the 50’s. You can still get this product. Spray the rubber heavy one day crank her around the next. Easy does it.
My dad always said “Grease is cheap.” Good Luck
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Old 06-30-2021, 09:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy in TO View Post
It took me a while to find my axle swap thread. During one of the software changes for the site they munged up the links. All my hard work cross referencing stuff went out the window. Given that they have taken away the ability to edit one's own posts, I am unable to fix the broken link. I think that is part of the reason I stopped posting as much as I used to.
OH! I know exactly how you feel. The serial numbers on a Trillium thread is links galore. I don't know how many are now broken, but it will be a lot of work to fix it.
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Old 07-01-2021, 01:50 PM   #14
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I thought about @jhmlkmorrow and how they might not have the same holes in the axle mount that I had to lower the arm. They could wrap a chain around the spindle and use that to pry the arm down.



It may be too late for a lubricant @Iowa Dave. The rubber has likely hardened in a distorted position. Pardon the pun but that is what makes it so hard.


All the more reason to store trailers with torsion axles on the frame with supports.
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Old 07-01-2021, 02:01 PM   #15
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it will be a lot of work to fix it.

One could do it with temporary moderator rights. Though you would need the motivation to do it as well as the time.



I wonder if there is a setting somewhere in the software where they could give someone temporary moderator rights to edit only their posts? I could likely find all my broken links because I composed them, but your serial number threads would be a nightmare.
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Old 07-01-2021, 02:18 PM   #16
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Hello

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy in TO View Post
I thought about @jhmlkmorrow and how they might not have the same holes in the axle mount that I had to lower the arm. They could wrap a chain around the spindle and use that to pry the arm down.



It may be too late for a lubricant @Iowa Dave. The rubber has likely hardened in a distorted position. Pardon the pun but that is what makes it so hard.


All the more reason to store trailers with torsion axles on the frame with supports.
Hey Roy
Glad to hear from you. Hope to see you in September in Niagara. Think about you every time there’s a severe weather posting north of us on the TV and the new to the area weather person points out
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Old 07-01-2021, 09:58 PM   #17
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Your trailer came with the equivalent of a 155 size tire.
I recommend that you reradius the wheel well opening to accommodate a 175/75R13 even if you choose a new axle.
It looks really cool with a square cut and radiused corners or just copy the original shape.
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Old 07-03-2021, 12:28 PM   #18
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Can't get wheel off

Do you have the jack under axel or under the frame if you put jack under the frame the axel will drop down more as you jack it up.
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Old 07-03-2021, 12:57 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by jhmlkmorrow View Post
My name is Kathleen and my husband and I are the lucky recipients of a 1973 13' Tote'n Tarry. Looks like the Boler, but the Tote'N Tarry was the knock-off.

We only recently got it home and decided to get the rims and tires replaced, but no matter how we've tried, we can't get the tire and rims out of the wheel well. I've attached a picture of the tire and what we are doing. We've jacked up the unit in multiple ways but nothing seems to make a difference. We let the air out of the tire thinking this would help, but no go. We are so frustrated.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks so much!!! K
Question. Are you raising the trailer up by axle or frame? Raise by frame near axle will allow axle to drop for more room possibly.
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Old 07-03-2021, 02:53 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by jhmlkmorrow View Post
My name is Kathleen and my husband and I are the lucky recipients of a 1973 13' Tote'n Tarry. Looks like the Boler, but the Tote'N Tarry was the knock-off.

We only recently got it home and decided to get the rims and tires replaced, but no matter how we've tried, we can't get the tire and rims out of the wheel well. I've attached a picture of the tire and what we are doing. We've jacked up the unit in multiple ways but nothing seems to make a difference. We let the air out of the tire thinking this would help, but no go. We are so frustrated.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks so much!!! K
Agree w/ other responder, SUSPECT you have to Jack up the body and let axle HANG, kinda like the old cars that used BUMPER JACKS vs axle jacks; you let axle hang to get clearance around fender/ skirts, etc? LUCK
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