Catalytic or Buddy portable indoor propane heater for Scamp 13

[Barb Hunt]

I use a small circulating oil heater and it works well to keep my 19foot trailer warm at moderately cold temperatures (for Canada that is) The best thing about it is that it's completely silent.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Len S

A trailer as small as this ; I would not use any internal heater such as this. Yes some recommend leaving vents open , such as overhead and or side windows so now this becomes self defeating....

Not really self-defeating at all. Usually, a Wave heater, with windows and roof vent in the camper open as required, will still keep the camper plenty warm and perhaps too warm, and do so while using much less propane than a vented furnace. You really dont lose that much more heat with the vent / window cracked vs having them closed, especially in these generally leaky campers.

The much higher efficiency of the Wave more than makes up for the open vent / window.

What is really self-defeating, from purely an efficiency point of view, is to dump as much as half the heat produced to the outside of the camper. Hold you hand up to the vented furnace vent when its running and its clear how inefficient the furnace is.

Still, as I have said, the inefficient vented furnace is only one I would consider using while sleeping.

[DJD]

I have used a Big Buddy to raise the temp in my workshop and I do no like the fumes! I did not think it would smell, but I was mistaken. I will use it again when temps are below 35F, but I will turn it off when I enter after raising the temp a little. I am not familiar w. The catalytic.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Just a question / observation ; If it’s so COLD in the shower room that you need to drag along a portable propane heater wouldn’t the water in the shower freeze ?

Not really. Cold is different for everybody. I've seen people put on wool lined coats at 70°F And people going shirt less at 40°F neither one near freezing.

[nefldiver]

Originally Posted by gordon2

Not really self-defeating at all. Usually, a Wave heater, with windows and roof vent in the camper open as required, will still keep the camper plenty warm and perhaps too warm, and do so while using much less propane than a vented furnace. You really dont lose that much more heat with the vent / window cracked vs having them closed, especially in these generally leaky campers.

The much higher efficiency of the Wave more than makes up for the open vent / window.

What is really self-defeating, from purely an efficiency point of view, is to dump as much as half the heat produced to the outside of the camper. Hold you hand up to the vented furnace vent when its running and its clear how inefficient the furnace is.

Still, as I have said, the inefficient vented furnace is only one I would consider using while sleeping.

My Bigfoot furnace is very efficient. And my trailer is very airtight and we'll insulated. Rated to minus 20 and up to 120 F.

[nefldiver]

Originally Posted by gordon2

Not really self-defeating at all. Usually, a Wave heater, with windows and roof vent in the camper open as required, will still keep the camper plenty warm and perhaps too warm, and do so while using much less propane than a vented furnace. You really dont lose that much more heat with the vent / window cracked vs having them closed, especially in these generally leaky campers.

The much higher efficiency of the Wave more than makes up for the open vent / window.

What is really self-defeating, from purely an efficiency point of view, is to dump as much as half the heat produced to the outside of the camper. Hold you hand up to the vented furnace vent when its running and its clear how inefficient the furnace is.

Still, as I have said, the inefficient vented furnace is only one I would consider using while sleeping.

My Bigfoot furnace is very efficient. And my trailer is very airtight and we'll insulated. Rated to minus 20 and up to 120 F.

But yes a lot of the heat is wasted

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by nefldiver

My Bigfoot furnace is very efficient. ...
But yes a lot of the heat is wasted

Those two statements are incongruent.

Efficiency is the ratio of heat output (to the living space) of the furnace compared to the total fossil fuel energy consumed by said furnace. A vented furnace might be effective at keeping the interior of the camper warm but that is not the same as efficiency. The point was that, using a Wave catalytic heater, I could keep my camper warm for a much longer time on the same amount of propane as I could using a vented furnace. So could you.

That does not always make the Wave the better choice however. A vented furnace has many advantages over a non-vented catalytic heater, despite the large difference in efficiency.

On the other hand, if you have no electric power available (battery or shore power), then the furnace will not even run. In that isolated case, the Wave is clearly the better option (unless you don't follow the directions to vent!).

[nefldiver]

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Resources / Facts About Carbon Monoxide Poisoning
FACTS ABOUT CARBON MONOXIDE POISONING
Carbon monoxide is the leading cause of accidental poisoning in the United States today.

Carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning can happen within a matter of minutes and is responsible for more deaths than any other single poison. This odorless, colorless poison can hurt you slowly in low levels, cause permanent neurological dysfunctions in moderate levels, and take lives in higher levels.

Oil, propane, and natural gas fired heating systems, gas appliances and fireplaces all release carbon monoxide as they burn and can be health and fire hazards.

[nefldiver]

Carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning can happen within a matter of minutes and is responsible for more deaths than any other single poison. This odorless, colorless poison can hurt you slowly in low levels, cause permanent neurological dysfunctions in moderate levels, and take lives in higher levels.

Oil, propane, and natural gas fired heating systems, gas appliances and fireplaces all release carbon monoxide as they burn and can be health and fire hazards.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by nefldiver

Carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning can happen within a matter of minutes and is responsible for more deaths than any other single poison. This odorless, colorless poison can hurt you slowly in low levels, cause permanent neurological dysfunctions in moderate levels, and take lives in higher levels.

Oil, propane, and natural gas fired heating systems, gas appliances and fireplaces all release carbon monoxide as they burn and can be health and fire hazards.

And the point is? (and the point of the cut and paste double post is? )...

If the point is to always use a carbon monoxide alarm then.. DUH! We all agree.

If the point is to not use "Oil, propane, and natural gas fired heating systems, gas appliances and fireplaces".... then I have to suggest some reasonable risk assessment least we decide to stop towing our campers anywhere...

Over 37,000 people die in road crashes each year in the US

While at the same time...

Every year, at least 430 people die in the U.S. from accidental CO poisoning

(BTW, thats 1.1 percent CO vs MV deaths).. But risks are all around us, in varying degrees. Common sense is advised!

[nefldiver]

Ooh touchy are we?

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by nefldiver

Ooh touchy are we?

Who are you asking?

I for one (among many perhaps) is / are just trying to understand what point you were trying to make. Saying that carbon monoxide is dangerous is like saying that fire can burn you. Was there more to your post than that?

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by gordon2

And the point is? (and the point of the cut and paste double post is? )...

That's called false equivalence. Here you go, but you can look into if further yourself.


False equivalence is a logical fallacy in which two incompatible arguments appear to be logically equivalent when in fact they are not. This fallacy is categorized as a fallacy of inconsistency.[1]

[floyd]

So which should the caveman regret more... the discovery of fire , or the invention of the wheel?

[Nancy F]

Originally Posted by zack sc

so all you need to do for safe venting is open the roof vent by 1/4"?


is opening the roof vent better than opening a side window?


Thanks.

As others have said either open the vent and or crack open a window, mostly for moisture reasons. The Little Buddy Heater we have has an oxygen sensor, so if oxygen gets too low it shuts off. Never had an issue mostly used when tenting, still have it but, now have a 5th wheel and boler in renovation which have furnaces.

[nefldiver]

[. Saying that carbon monoxide is dangerous is like saying that fire can burn you. Was there more to your post than that?[/QUOTE]



You can see and feel and smell fire ... That's one of my main points!!

[nefldiver]

The main way you realize you've gassed yourself is waking up at the pearly gates. ( Am giving all the benefit of the doubt, after all most of us do own mft"s )!!

[Trill136]

I have used the "little buddy" on occasion in my Trill.

I usually crack the roof vent, and have the window on the door open a bit.
Also, the two side windows leak like sieves. Those alone are probably enough. lol.

I have never run it overnight. Like mentioned before, I have woken up, in the middle of the night cold, and run it for a bit. Usually a couple of times per night. And definitely in the morning!!!

When it is really cold, I have a metal 5 gallon container that I have cut the side out of. I will put a couple of big candles in there. Still make sure that there is some air available. Keeps everything above freezing, but not be much!!

I have scrounged a used forced air furnace (from an RV being wrecked) and plan on utilizing it some way or another.

[Glenn Baglo]

It matters not what the source of combustion is. Candles, propane, diesel, white gas, fire logs. They all produce carbon monoxide.

[Defenestrator]

The current-gen furnaces aren't quite *that* bad in terms of efficiency. They're on the order of 70-75%, which is quite a bit better than the old 50% ones. Propex's furnaces are closer to 90%, and I think the Truma Varioheat's higher than that (though it's not in the US yet so far as I know). Still not as good as a home condensing furnace, but good enough that it's probably close to a wash in terms of heat lost to ventilation vs furnace inefficiency.