condensation

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:wave had lots of dampness in the cabinet above microwave after 30 day trip,had put on ducktape to help keep refg. gas pilot lit(didn't help.):o <img src=http://www.fiberglassrv.com/board/uploads/3e5e54f77c571storage_lamp_8127.jpg/> never notice dampness in there before.could lack of air flow caused it (duck tape on the louvers)??????

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Hi roy!

Hey, define "dampness." Can you see the dampness (water) when you rub your fingers through the cabinet? And where is the dampness ... along the top of the cabinet?

And just to make sure we are on the same page ... you are talking about the little cabinet ABOVE the microwave cabinet ... not the Microwave cabinet itself.

Also, if your refrigerator pilot light is not staying lit ... you probably have some debri or rust in your gas oriface, which is reducing the gas flow. How long has it been since you've cleaned it? Your trailer is 8 years old, by my math.

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in this (top) cabinet? :conf

<img src=http://www.fiberglassrv.com/board/uploads/3e5e6ca98db09Casita cabinet door support 1.jpg/>

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Roy:

I installed an automatic re-ignitor which is wonderful for a trailer with the little manual control fridge. I never could see the pilot on a sunny day. Now, listen for the automatic click, click to change its frequency, and know the pilot is on. If the pilot goes out, it'll relight. :wave

<img src=http://www.fiberglassrv.com/board/uploads/3e5e6fdfc24f8Casita fridge ignitor 2.jpg/> OK).

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:wave you have it right charles and pine cone don,We store rolls of aluminum foil etc. that are pushed up against the top of the upper cabinet(for better use of storage space) . they got very damp,almost unusable,it was very cold and lots of snow and rain during the last trip. I duck taped the louvers ( may have caused th dampness)to prevent the pilot lamp failure on the road(did not help). have sense blowed out pilot area with compressed air and now have a larger and stronger pilot flame.I liked the auto iginiter when you first posted it and will install lf cleaning doesn't help. have removed tape,so will keep my eye on it.thanks<img src=http://www.fiberglassrv.com/board/uploads/3e5e8971e9e73scrazyeyes.gif/>

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If it is the carpet on the top of the cabinet getting wet it probably is one of the rivets which go through the roof on the top front edge of the cabinet You can see an acorn nut in the corner of the cabinet in the photo above. you might have one above the middle of the cabinet door, if the dampness is centered in the cabinet it will probably be that center rivet leaking. I can't imagine that it is anything below the cabinet causing that much of a dampness problem. The Porch light in my 16' is riveted in just a little above the bottom (in the center) of that cabinet, I guess it might be wicking up?

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In addition to Bills comment about the porch light, the gutter over the door emptys right on to the porch light. Sure looks like a possibility for the dampness. Silicon to the rescue!!! :r

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Did you use the microwave alot? The heat generated off the microwave would easily condense on the aluminum foil. The cabinet above the microwave cabinet is cold. Only a theroy. We remove the microwave if we are going to be using it longer than 3 minutes.

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Yeah ... I'm thinking a rivet leaking or something, too.

I can't conceive of the microwave causing enough of a problem in the next cabinet to wet aluminum foil to the point of being unusable.

Now, depending on the temperature and humidity changes, I've had condensation form on some metal camp plates (you know, those blue metal plates) in the cabinet above the stove ... to the point of a finger coming away damp.

(I certainly don't understand the science behind it, so don't ask me to explain how it happens, but it did ... rarely). But it wasn't enough to make foil damp enough like Roy's describing.

Roy, have you inspect the top of your trailer recently? Are the snap caps along the top of the microwave cabinet intact? If one is missing (because a rivet popped), it's not always noticeable from inside the trailer. You have to climb up to take a look ... wiggle them with your hand.

If the caps are all in place, try squirting a little Captain Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure around the snap caps. A little goes a long way, and it will seep and find a leak. Doesn't hurt anything.

Also check the caulk along the top of your porch light. Again press and pull with your finger. Sometimes the caulk looks like it is firmly attached to both surfaces, but isn't.

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I do not know the circumstances, but here is a possibility. You were on a thirty day trip, so I assume you used your microwave. If the temperature on the outside was pretty cold and/ or humid, the microwaved was used, then the temp in the upper unheated cabinet would be cold and the heat rising from the microwave from use, would condensate exactly where you indicated.

Just a thought. Ever see a mirror in a bathroom after a hot shower? Same principle.

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I have a couple of propane-fired portable heaters, and can vouch that the primary bi-product of propane combustion is water vapor. As in A LOT of water vapor. By duct-taping over the air intake, the convection airflow, which normally blows the vapor out through the exhaust vent, was stifled. Hence, there wasn't enough airflow to move the relatively heavy water, causing it to condense in the cool upper cabinet. Makes sense to me. Yes, a microwave can also put out a lot of humidity, depending on what you are heating, but the fridge on gas would be a constant supply of surprisingly large amounts of moisture.

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Burning propane produces something like one ounce of water per hour per 1,000 BTU, so if a fridge is 5,000KBtu, it can crank out 5 oz of water in one hour if it all stays in one place. That's why condensation is more of a problem with unvented ODS/catalytic heaters than with the standard RV heaters. In the former, the water is in the heated air; in the latter, the water goes outside with the waste gas and heat.

Re: The cabinets, warm air can absorb more water; when you chill it a bit, the water condenses out on the cool surface (hence the rain when a cold front hits warm air). Cooking stuf with a microwave produces warm, fairly saturated, air which exits the MW thru its vents. If the vents are in back or on top, the moist air is then in the cabinet. If the air can travel to a nearby cabinet (esp up), then it may condense there on the coolest surface which may be the carpet and fiberglass. One way to prevent condensation would be to insulate the upper cabinet so there isn't a sharp temp drop on its surfaces; another way would be to put a vent in the upper cabinet door, or leave it open.

Pete and Rats

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I have had good luck using a furnace filter behind the louvers to keep the flame from blowing out. They come in all siizes and are cheap [ less than a dollar]

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:banana Those guys are good at rv fiberglass.Now where did i put that rivet gun, one broken rivet causing all that moisture in the cabinet,should have seen that akron nut hanging down,don't forget to caulk first, i need some help to hold that acron nut. got to have two hands to pull that rivet gun,they are never around when needed' she probley went to the heated tee box to practice turning the left knee as she starts her down swing. I need to hide those golf digest.Cleaning the pilot should take care of pilot going out.I'll measure for a filter just in case.Better mark the measurments down someplace before i forget. 57$ for mr.heater was a great buy,maybe it will keep the casita warmer than the black cat heater,all I saw of her was her nose sticking out of the sleeping bag on those really cold nights:sad :lol

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Glad you found the broken rivet ... well, no, not glad ... but hope you found your problem! (Although a broken rivet to a true fiberglasser, is a badge of honor ... besides, it's fun and easy to fix!)

As you said, remember to caulk the hole first, before inserting the new rivet. Remember to put on the snap cap base first!

Your wife sounds as busy as mine! I occasionally will draft a friend or stranger to help put in an acorned rivet!

Check the rest of your rivets, ok?

And like Pete (and others say), remember to vent your rig as much as comfortably possible during cold weather camping!

Keep us posted Roy!

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Noel -- thanks a million for the furnace filter idea. I thought I had tried everything to no avail on our 16ft Scamp fridge pilot light. You're a gentleman and a scholar!!

Concerning the bullet nuts. I use a vice-grip to hold the bullet head. Usually a person can positon the vice-grip so it will not allow the nut to turn. Then I can loosen it from the outside. Also a small squirt of wd-40 or similar before you try to loosen a stuborn nut is usually a help.

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Good tip for loosening a stubborn nut Loren!

I was talking about needing a second person to install an acorn nut pop rivet!

You usually need a second person on the inside to "push" on the rivet with a nut driver, while the first person uses both hands to "pop" the rivet from the outside.

Most important thing to remember is to caulk the hole before inserting the rivet. And to also remember to put the snap-cap base on the rivet before popping it!

(I'm embarassed to tell you how many times I've forgotten to put on the snap-cap base ... and having to drill out my recently installed rivet to do it right!)