Dead Rat Fur need help - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 09-21-2018, 11:33 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by floyd View Post
Scamp doesn't use Ozite.
The glue is 3M 77 or 90.
They used Ozite in my 1986 Scamp 13 and my experience with 3M super 77 and 90 is super 90 is a better product than super 77. Super 90 has much higher temperature rating and holds better than Supper 77. I Have had super 77 fail on me when used for headliners where the sun beats on the top. I have used super 90 successfully but I have not used it on a assembly stack like Scamp does with bonding 2 layers of Reflextic to the shell and the fabric on that. your dealing with weight in a long term application.

Before using super 77 or super 90 Read the manufacturers data sheets and wear proper protection gear.

You don't want to have this stuff falling down on you a few years down the road. It is very important to follow directions with this stuff its more complicated than just spray and stick.
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Old 09-21-2018, 12:19 PM   #22
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Your Bigfoot is double-hulled, correct? So you would likely be just fine with whatever carpet you could adhere to the walls - it wouldn't have to be the rat fur (Ensolite/carpet combination) that is found in Casitas (and Scamps?).
And I would guess you simply need to get all the loose adhesive/insulation off before doing this, rather than having to get every last bit off.
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Old 09-21-2018, 01:14 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Spongelander View Post
Your Bigfoot is double-hulled, correct? So you would likely be just fine with whatever carpet you could adhere to the walls - it wouldn't have to be the rat fur (Ensolite/carpet combination) that is found in Casitas (and Scamps?).
And I would guess you simply need to get all the loose adhesive/insulation off before doing this, rather than having to get every last bit off.
scamps use a marine headliner material thats furry, while casitas use a shag carpet sort of material. afaik, the casita has the shag carpet glued directly to the fiberglass shell with no other insulation, while scamps use a reflectix style silver bubblewrap layer as insulation.

re: removing adhesives etc, I think I'd use a scraper to remove the bulk, then wire brush and vacuum to remove whatever is left. whatever survives that is bonded well enough to glue new stuff over it
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Old 09-21-2018, 06:53 PM   #24
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Dead Rat Fur need help

I believe the OP has a 13' Lil Bigfoot, which is a single hull trailer with an insulated lining similar to Scamp.

The larger Bigfoots aren't double hulled, either. Only the outer hull is fiberglass. The inside has rigid foam insulation and paneling bonded to the shell. No inner fiberglass shell.
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:39 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Spongelander View Post
Your Bigfoot is double-hulled, correct? So you would likely be just fine with whatever carpet you could adhere to the walls - it wouldn't have to be the rat fur (Ensolite/carpet combination) that is found in Casitas (and Scamps?).
And I would guess you simply need to get all the loose adhesive/insulation off before doing this, rather than having to get every last bit off.

I think you might be onto something I do not know if the wall is doubled hulled I know its really think on the top of it. All these bubble wrap insulation and other products they are talking about I have no idea what that is? I hope you are right it would make my life so much easier to scrap it and forget it. I mean does this insulation really do anything its really thin? I like your idea the best it would save me a lot of misery. Thanks
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:41 PM   #26
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The red stuff is adhesive, not insulation.

Scamp's shell lining consists of one layer of foil bubble wrap covered with a layer of marine grade headliner. (Note: It's not a double layer as some say- the "double" refers to two interlocking bubble sheets between the foil outer surfaces making one layer of foil bubble wrap.)

Foil bubble wrap is actually a radiant barrier intended to be used facing an open air space, not in a sandwich. Lots of opinions about whether it has any value at all used as Scamp does. A layer of closed cell foam instead of foil bubble would likely perform better. But it's more expensive and harder to work with.

In my opinion the best lining would consist of a 1/4" layer of closed cell foam, then a layer of carpet-type marine headliner. For cost and ease of installation you could use the foil bubble wrap instead of foam, depending on what you make of the arguments for and against.

I'm not a fan of spray-on foam insulation. Too thick, too hard to apply evenly, and impacts leave dents later.
I hate to sound dumb I have no clue what this foil bubble wrap stuff is?
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:43 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
I believe the OP has a 13' Lil Bigfoot, which is a single hull trailer with an insulated lining similar to Scamp.

The larger Bigfoots aren't double hulled, either. Only the outer hull is fiberglass. The inside has rigid foam insulation and paneling bonded to the shell. No inner fiberglass shell.
One guy on here says he thinks the BFs are doubled hulled I do know the top of it is really think when I knock on it sound pretty thick but again I am totally dumb on these trailers.
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:45 PM   #28
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Ah, let me describe what I AM familiar with - Casita "rat fur" is a two-layer material: a foam (Ensolite?) about 1/2" thick, bonded to carpet. There are areas in my Casita where I can pull back a bit of it to show this. It's the only insulation the Casita has. My understanding is that your original material is similar, and that the foam part is crumbling, probably due to oxidation and age. If that's the case, I would remove it, and replace it with something similar, which, hopefully, Casita could point you toward a supply source.
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:46 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
scamps use a marine headliner material thats furry, while casitas use a shag carpet sort of material. afaik, the casita has the shag carpet glued directly to the fiberglass shell with no other insulation, while scamps use a reflectix style silver bubblewrap layer as insulation.

re: removing adhesives etc, I think I'd use a scraper to remove the bulk, then wire brush and vacuum to remove whatever is left. whatever survives that is bonded well enough to glue new stuff over it
You and another guy said just scrape it off and install all the rat fur and cabinets don't worry about insulation. I think you guys have the best idea I would save me so much misery. What difference is a little film of cheesy insulation going to make. If it was a RV with standard stick build frame hell yeah put in new insulation that's a no brainer.
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:59 PM   #30
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If you can get hold of Casita's material, it has foam backing that does provide insulation and cushioning. It should install the same way as ordinary carpet.
As for the foil bubble wrap, look up Reflectix to see what it's all about. If it were me, I wouldn't use the bubble wrap either; I'd just go with what Casita uses already. Our Casita is a three-season trailer as built, and I have no need to make it a four-season trailer.
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:19 PM   #31
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If you can get hold of Casita's material, it has foam backing that does provide insulation and cushioning. It should install the same way as ordinary carpet.
As for the foil bubble wrap, look up Reflectix to see what it's all about. If it were me, I wouldn't use the bubble wrap either; I'd just go with what Casita uses already. Our Casita is a three-season trailer as built, and I have no need to make it a four-season trailer.
If I use a out door carpet with foam backing isn't that the same thing wont it work? Its better than the fabric BIg foot put in
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:36 PM   #32
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If I use a out door carpet with foam backing isn't that the same thing wont it work? Its better than the fabric BIg foot put in
I installed carpet for a couple years after the service so here's a hint. The wall carpet in my Casita is a shorter nap than the normal house carpet. I've done the outdoor carpet and the seams are very hard to get to disappear, if ever, and that's on a flat surface where gravity is your friend. Seams in the carpet like Casita uses will disappear because of the nap. BTW, the red contact cement used is the same as what's used for laminating solid surface material to MDF panels. I've used it building cabinets at work...wish I could remember the name.
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Old 09-21-2018, 11:37 PM   #33
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I installed carpet for a couple years after the service so here's a hint. The wall carpet in my Casita is a shorter nap than the normal house carpet. I've done the outdoor carpet and the seams are very hard to get to disappear, if ever, and that's on a flat surface where gravity is your friend. Seams in the carpet like Casita uses will disappear because of the nap. BTW, the red contact cement used is the same as what's used for laminating solid surface material to MDF panels. I've used it building cabinets at work...wish I could remember the name.
I will try and get some pictures tomorrow trying to get a customers boat finished up its been a problem child for sure. Most of the fabric in the BF is smaller strips most of it goes behind cabinets or molding is covering it. I am not worried about seams nobody is going to notice them . If I had a wide open area and was going to install carpet with a bunch of seams then I would be worried about it
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Old 09-22-2018, 06:26 AM   #34
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Single Hull vs. Double Hull

Do post pictures. Until we know exactly what model trailer you have, we're talking in circles here. Garbage in-garbage out, as the computer folks say.

If it's a Bigfoot, it's not double-hulled, though. Easy to tell- a double-hull trailer is smooth fiberglass on the entire interior, like the inside of a 1-piece bathtub enclosure. Walls, ceiling, and cabinets are molded together in large sections There's no headliner, carpet, or paneling on the walls. Insulation (if used) is hidden between the outer and inner fiberglass molds. U-hauls, Burros, Clouds, EggCampers, and Olivers are made this way.

If you're interested in how a single-hull trailer is made, you can go to Scamp's website (scamptrailers.com) and watch their promotional video. There's a section showing how their trailers are built, including a brief glimpse of the lining installation. Someone recently posted a more detailed video from a factory tour, but I can't seem to find it.

Other single hull trailers (including Lil Bigfoot, if that's indeed what you have) use a similar process with many variations, including different materials to line and insulate the shell. Casita uses foam-backed carpet. Bolers and Trilliums used vinyl-topped closed-cell foam (Ensolite was the trade name). Some boxy designs install rigid foam and paneling inside the shell (larger Bigfoots, for example). After the shell is lined, cabinetry- either conventional wood or modular fiberglass- is installed.

But let's start with some pictures of what you have.
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Old 09-22-2018, 07:53 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by RV NUT CASE View Post
You and another guy said just scrape it off and install all the rat fur and cabinets don't worry about insulation. I think you guys have the best idea I would save me so much misery. What difference is a little film of cheesy insulation going to make. If it was a RV with standard stick build frame hell yeah put in new insulation that's a no brainer.
The main reason single hull FG trailers are insulated is to limit sweating. So you are going to need some new "cheesy" insulation. Most of the big box hardware stores sell a version of foil/bubble wrap style (Reflectix)

Smooth interior finish, so called Elephanthyde (thats a descriptive term, not a name brand), gives you a smooth vinyl finish on the inside of the trailer. Thats what Escape currently uses. I like it a lot more than the carpet that some others use.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Reflectix-3...SABEgIT0vD_BwE
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Old 09-22-2018, 08:51 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by thrifty bill View Post
The main reason single hull FG trailers are insulated is to limit sweating...
...meaning condensation on the fiberglass in cool weather, not the kind you get on your shirt in hot weather . And yes, that's an important reason to line the shell. It's also needed to keep light from shining through (bare fiberglass is translucent), to deaden sound, and to feel nice when you brush against it (happens a lot in a small trailer).

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Originally Posted by thrifty bill View Post
...Smooth interior finish, so called Elephanthyde (thats a descriptive term, not a name brand), gives you a smooth vinyl finish on the inside of the trailer. Thats what Escape currently uses. I like it a lot more than the carpet that some others use...
"Elephant hide" is a local nick-name for the Ensolite used to line many vintage trailers. It is closed-cell foam with a textured vinyl top layer, no longer made. The texture gave rise to the term "elephant hide." In the same way the color and texture of Scamp's particular brand of marine headliner earned the nick-name "rat fur." Ozite (if that's what the OP has) is another product altogether, and hasn't earned a nick-name as far as I know. Nick-names are fun, but can be confusing for newcomers.

Escape uses closed cell foam with a smooth vinyl top layer, similar to Ensolite without the texture. It's a good choice if you want a wipeable surface. I don't who their supplier is, but it doesn't seem to be too common. It will be difficult to fit smoothly in the corners.

Plain closed cell foam is readily available, but it is soft and gouges easily. It needs something on top, a headliner material of some kind, making it a two-step installation.
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Old 09-22-2018, 09:49 AM   #37
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Pics just in

Here are the pictures guys , Up close on the inner insulation and the liner as you can see its very thin like fabric not like Scamps etc. The last pic shows how its laid out in the trailer. Hope this helps thanks for the replies
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Old 09-22-2018, 10:09 AM   #38
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That's not Ozite, either, nor ensolite, rat fur, or any of the more common materials used to line the shells.

Two questions. (1) How much of the headliner fabric is loose? (2) How fragile is the underlying foam? Although the foam is clearly degraded, it is still probably doing most of what it needs to do. Could you carefully re-glue the loose fabric to the foam?

If not, the alternative seems to be gutting the interior down to the fiberglass and replacing the lining with modern materials. That's something to be avoided if possible.

This Lil Bigfoot model is pretty uncommon, but perhaps there is someone who knows more about the specific materials used and has better ideas.
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Old 09-22-2018, 10:19 AM   #39
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That's not Ozite, either, nor ensolite, rat fur, or any of the more common materials used to line the shells.

Two questions. (1) How much of the headliner fabric is loose? (2) How fragile is the underlying foam?

Although the foam is clearly degraded, it is still probably doing most of what it needs to do. Could you carefully re-glue the loose fabric to the foam?

If not, the alternative seems to be gutting the interior down to the fiberglass and replacing the lining with modern materials. That's something to be avoided if possible.

This Lil Bigfoot model is pretty uncommon, but perhaps there is someone who knows more about the specific materials used and has better ideas.
I want to gut the trailer and rewire the AC and DC and go through all the appliances the fabric is pretty nasty I just don't want to use it if possible the inner insulation is so dry rotted I don't think the fabric will stick to it she is going on 30 years old next year. Got to be a way to do this simple.
thanks
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Old 09-22-2018, 08:49 PM   #40
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if you peel off the stuff lining your trailer, you WILL need to get new lining material, similar or different, thats your choice.
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