Feeling overwhelmed and discouraged…

[courtney]

Planned on re-wiring my 1977 13-ft Scamp this weekend. Started taking out all of the old wire after work and realized I could access the taillights without removing the back benches. Got them out and wasn’t grooving on the look of the back floor being partially floored in vinyl plank. Planned on removing the flooring under the back bed area, giving the subfloor and ensolite a good scrub, and priming it all. Got the flooring out and saw that the paint on the floor was peeling and bubbling up. Started scraping off the paint only to find the subfloor was damp to the touch. Some areas of the wood are flaky and brittle. Removed the hardware on the back wall that supports the table. Screws were rusted and degraded. Peeled back the ensolite under the back window and the left half of the wooden panel is soft.

This is all a bit above my pay grade. Quitting for the night. Going to soak in the tub, drink a cold beer, and start reading about how to fix all this.

I read a thread on here a while back from a fellow encouraging folks to do fiberglass repairs. Going to hunt that one down. If you know of other good threads that would help me, please post links.

[thrifty bill]

The way I overcome being overwhelmed, is I make a list of what needs to be done. Then I put the list in some logical order, what to do first. Then I just focus on that first item (put the list away as the list alone can be overwhelming).

For me, the first item is finding the leaks! Probable sources are the windows and any other penetrations through the shell. Windows can be done one at a time (don't remove them all at once). Ditto any hatches, or other penetrations. Start with the smallest window. Learn on that one, apply learning to the others.

Stuff is wet, so the leaks are current, otherwise, stuff would have dried out. Soft wood means it has gone from being damp to rotten.

You might even make leaks items #1 through #10.


Electrical comes quite a bit later. Rewiring is not a weekend job, at least not for me.


Just think about item #1 on your list. Finish it, then work on #2. Having a dry place to work is also important. Even a temporary carport can work, depends where you live and any rules they may have.


I love projects! But projects are not for everyone. Decide if you are up to it, and dive in (with a plan), or sell the project to someone. The market is GREAT right now. Projects require TIME, and it also delays camping. Anything can be fixed, its about TIME, not everyone has the luxury of time. Paying someone else to do the work can be VERY costly in $$$.

Its not always a matter of whether you CAN do it. I think you CAN! The question is, to you have the TIME and energy to take on this project right now? Its OK to pass on projects!!

And even as someone who loves projects, I have walked away from some of them. Never regretted it, ever.

[gordon2]

I have read (and often replied to) many of your post about this project camper. I have been very impressed by your dedication to the project. You have shown a willingness to learn what needs to be learned and to do what needs to be done. From the start I could see it was a big project, but with the discovery of the subfloor wood being “flaky and brittle” as you describe it, the project has now become perhaps a full rebuild.

The below video describes a complete frame and floor rebuild on a Burro which is very similar. If your trailer is in really bad shape then the work that is required might be similar. Or it might be less if the floor is only partially defective and if it can be repaired in a section or two. Don’t feel bad if it is as serious as the Burro in the video – you are not the first to get a project trailer that requires much more work than initially expected.

I think you have the dedication required to produce a safe and usable camper. I also suspect that you have the good sense to know when it’s time to cut your losses, sell the project to someone who can better handle it, and move on. In either case you will find support here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HozzQZ_lmyQ

[courtney]

Originally Posted by thrifty bill

The way I overcome being overwhelmed, is I make a list of what needs to be done. Then I put the list in some logical order, what to do first. Then I just focus on that first item (put the list away as the list alone can be overwhelming).

For me, the first item is finding the leaks! Probable sources are the windows and any other penetrations through the shell. Windows can be done one at a time (don't remove them all at once). Ditto any hatches, or other penetrations. Start with the smallest window. Learn on that one, apply learning to the others.

Stuff is wet, so the leaks are current, otherwise, stuff would have dried out.

You might even make leaks items #1 through #10.

After that is the subfloor. The picture of the floor does not look that bad to me. But you are there in person. Wet means leaking now, soft means rotten, leaked for a long, long time. The piece on the back wall does not look good.

Electrical comes later. Rewiring is not a weekend job, at least not for me.


Just think about item #1 on your list. Finish it, then work on #2. Having a dry place to work is also important. Even a temporary carport can work, depends where you live and any rules they may have.

I am a big fan of keeping any trailer under cover (garage or carport) when not in use. Continual exposure to weather really ages them quickly. I have bought 3 molded FG trailers. Two were stored in garages, one was stored outside. Big difference in overall condition and problems!

I love projects! But projects are not for everyone. Decide if you are up to it, and dive in (with a plan), or sell the project to someone. The market is GREAT right now. Projects require TIME, and it also delays camping. Anything can be fixed, its about TIME, not everyone has the luxury of time.


Are we looking out the back window? Spare tire mounted to the body of the trailer? Those screws show the classic sign of being in wet wood. The water rots the wood and also rots the screws.

Thank you for the words. I think I was initially overwhelmed, and made a list like you suggested…but then I found all of this stuff tonight, and well…

This has been garaged since we brought it home on July 17th, and the wood still felt damp. I think the paint trapped the moisture and prevented it from drying. It was not garaged prior to me picking it up. I am a HUGE advocate of sheltering this trailers when not in use. I’ve been working on it in my garage up until today, when I pulled in into the driveway and put it under a 12x12 easy up for the weekend. I live in and HOA that prohibits this, but they can get over it on the weekends. I’ll put it back in the garage Sunday night

I’m confident that every single window leaks. They will be my new priority. These windows are way more finicky than the jalousie windows I had in my ‘82. They are the ones with the single pain that tilts out. I have read posts on these, will order the necessary materials, and will tackle one of the smaller side windows first. If I can’t get that one water tight, I’ll need to evaluate replacing them all.

[courtney]

Originally Posted by gordon2

I have read (and often replied to) many of your post about this project camper. I have been very impressed by your dedication to the project. You have shown a willingness to learn what needs to be learned and to do what needs to be done. From the start I could see it was a big project, but with the discovery of the subfloor wood being “flaky and brittle” as you describe it, the project has now become perhaps a full rebuild.



The below video describes a complete frame and floor rebuild on a Burro which is very similar. If your trailer is in really bad shape then the work that is required might be similar. Or it might be less if the floor is only partially defective and if it can be repaired in a section or two. Don’t feel bad if it is as serious as the Burro in the video – you are not the first to get a project trailer that requires much more work than initially expected.



I think you have the dedication required to produce a safe and usable camper. I also suspect that you have the good sense to know when it’s time to cut your losses, sell the project to someone who can better handle it, and move on. In either case you will find support here.

“Dedicated.” I like that. My husband would call me stubborn. I’ve tinkered all my life and am resourceful and good at solving problems. I know this is just a set back, and she’ll be beautiful in the end. Trying to tell myself that this is an opportunity to learn new skills.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by courtney

“...Trying to tell myself that this is an opportunity to learn new skills.

Good attitude .. and attitude is 99%

[thrifty bill]

Originally Posted by courtney

“Dedicated.” I like that. My husband would call me stubborn. I’ve tinkered all my life and am resourceful and good at solving problems. I know this is just a set back, and she’ll be beautiful in the end. Trying to tell myself that this is an opportunity to learn new skills.

This is KEY! We bought a duplex, and the real estate inspector told us it was too far gone, and the only thing to do at this point was tear it down! "as long as you know you are just buying a lot, its OK. But as a house? Forget it!"

Well, I am way too stubborn to tear down a house. So I put a lot of time and some money into it, and now it is a special place. But if I wasn't so damn stubborn, no doubt it would have been torn down.

In my life, I have often used stubborn to supply energy to overcome a challenge. Its a personal thing. I like to consider it a strength. Others might disagree!

Glad to hear you have a garage. Stuff WILL dry out. And its easier to repair stuff when you are not fighting the weather.

Those windows do open fully, which is a plus. I'd fix them if possible.

[Eric Frye]

Oooohhhhh. Your picking at a scab. Two truths about fiber glass campers. 1. They leak! Don't fall for the it's fiberglass so its water proof.
2. The leak.
But hey don't feel bad or overwhelmed. All trailers leak as some point, even the $150,000 Airstreams are going to leak, some sooner than others. The great thing is Fiberglass trailers will normally keep their structural integrity even if the floor rots out so it really just becomes maintenance. It really requires no special skills, just a little tenacity. While there are some people who make fiberglass look easy (because it is) it just take a little patients and practice.
On the bright side, (in my opinion) you now have an opportunity to buy new tools. I would suggest going to YouTube and watching some videos from Boatworks Today, he has some great glassing videos for small repairs.

[courtney]

[QUOTE=It really requires no special skills, just a little tenacity. While there are some people who make fiberglass look easy (because it is) it just take a little patients and practice.

On the bright side, (in my opinion) you now have an opportunity to buy new tools. I would suggest going to YouTube and watching some videos from Boatworks Today, he has some great glassing videos for small repairs.[/QUOTE]


I’ve got lots of tenacity, thankfully.

I posted this on another thread but am throwing out here, too. If you have any ideas/links on how to build out the edges around these holes by 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch, let me know.

[John in Michigan]

see my response on the other thread

https://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/...tml#post821979

[RogerDat]

I would get the paint off and let the wood dry to assess the wood condition. Sometimes soft plywood once dry can be doped with products that soak in and harden to strengthen and seal the wood. Epoxy like or resin. As long as the wood is still intact and not actually rotted it can keep the existing wood in service.

Can be a good feeling to restore to new, especially if one is doing all that other work. However if the wood in question doesn't take load it can be enough structurally that the wood is just solid and intact enough to provide a seal against the road grime and spray coming inside.

I think the paint trapping moisture is a good guess. The bottom of the wood is probably coated with fiberglass resin which would prevent moisture from getting out toward the bottom.

Replacing floor involves bracing shell up so it can't drop using 2x4's under belly band then cutting the fiberglass tabbing between wall and floor around the edges. An oscillating saw works well for that. You will want good blades and more than one. Cardboard template to fit then cut new wood to match the cardboard. A rubber hose can be useful for cutting curves. An air hose from compressor works well.

Lay a hose along the edge of the camper wall with the cardboard under it. Then trace the hose edge to transfer the exact curve. Usually have to get cardboard close to fitting first but tracing a hose can give you the final smooth fit line.

The wood needs construction adhesive such as liquid nails under it along the frame in addition to the screws. Which are sometimes easiest to remove using a 4" grinder to just grind the screw down through the wood (smokey but effective) then prying the wood up. Replace screws in new locations.

Leave a bit of the tabbing on the wall to align the new wood with. For tabbing you will want fiberglass and some thickener for the resin. Thickener looks like dust, available at boat supply stores. Can't recall what it is called. Otherwise the resin has a strong tendency to just run down the side. Thickened to consistency of thin peanut butter it works better for tabbing.

This shows the wood ready to have adhesive applied to frame and get dropped down into position. I went with set some weights on it until adhesive was dry but I could have screwed it down onto the fresh adhesive instead. You can also see how the old floor was cut out leaving a lip of the tabbing to set new into with fresh fiberglass resin and matting or cloth.

[RogerDat]

holes close to the edge would require a very thin bit of epoxy or FG to build out, Thin edge repairs don't seem to me to be very durable. Essentially one has to sand back from the edge to feather in a large enough patch to have strength. Might consider just putting a washer on the inside to give the rivet better surface to pull against. Takes two people so that one is inside slipping washer onto rivets but will allow rivet to get a tighter seal. Because the edge doesn't flex when the rivet pulls tight with a washer spreading out the force.

otherwise a thin piece of sheet aluminum can be folded over the edge to spread the rivet or screw force out. That could be done over existing hole or as something to help protect a thin edge repair.

Someone with more experience with fiberglass might be able to indicate how far back the repair has to go to get enough strength to add the 1/4 inch to the edge so that repair is part of the wall and doesn't just break off.

The seal is from the butyl tape, as long as the fastener (rivet or stainless steel screw) can pull tight the hole works to do what it needs to. Over time movement and vibration can loosen rivets. That is where screws have an advantage. Can tighten down gradually so that the butyl tape has a chance to compress before tightening more to get to a tight seal. And when the butyl compresses a bit over time from flexing of shell or window frame a stainless screw can be tightened up. Rivet has to be removed and replaced to get it tighter.

[redbarron55]

With the trailer a 1977 you probably have several issues the deeper you dig.
1. The axle if not recently replaced is probably dead and needs to be replaced
2. There will be corrosion where the screws went through the wet plywood into the steel.
3. The frame will probably be cracked where the bends are in the front. Also where the step carries through under the door.
So, inspect the frame and axle carefully.
One thing is that the fiberglass trailers do survive as a shell for a long time, but they do accumulate problems over that time as well.
I rebuilt a 1985 16' Scamp and had to rebuild the front half of the frame, (reinforcing and extending) the axle and all of the floor.
However I did take the opportunity to build out the trailer exactly the way we wanted it.
The deeper you dig the bigger the hole gets.
Stubborn has it's benefits and costs so look carefully into the frame and axle and decide just how deep you are willing to go.

[courtney]

Originally Posted by RogerDat

Might consider just putting a washer on the inside to give the rivet better surface to pull against.

I was thinking about that as a possible solution, but I like this idea of yours better:

Originally Posted by RogerDat

otherwise a thin piece of sheet aluminum can be folded over the edge to spread the rivet or screw force out. That could be done over existing hole or as something to help protect a thin edge repair.

[courtney]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

With the trailer a 1977 you probably have several issues the deeper you dig.
1. The axle if not recently replaced is probably dead and needs to be replaced
2. There will be corrosion where the screws went through the wet plywood into the steel.
3. The frame will probably be cracked where the bends are in the front. Also where the step carries through under the door.
So, inspect the frame and axle carefully.
One thing is that the fiberglass trailers do survive as a shell for a long time, but they do accumulate problems over that time as well.
I rebuilt a 1985 16' Scamp and had to rebuild the front half of the frame, (reinforcing and extending) the axle and all of the floor.
However I did take the opportunity to build out the trailer exactly the way we wanted it.
The deeper you dig the bigger the hole gets.
Stubborn has it's benefits and costs so look carefully into the frame and axle and decide just how deep you are willing to go.

RogerDat replaced the axle five years or so ago, but, yes, lots of rusted screws down below. Need to get underneath and assess fully.

[courtney]

Originally Posted by RogerDat

Sometimes soft plywood once dry can be doped with products that soak in and harden to strengthen and seal the wood. Epoxy like or resin. As long as the wood is still intact and not actually rotted it can keep the existing wood in service.

After I scraped some of the paint off and put a fan in their, it dried out really fast. I’m going to strip the whole back half so that it can dry out and I can see what’s good vs bad. Thanks for the tutorial. I’ll keep you posted. Oh, and I bought my first oscillating saw (per your recommendation) last week

[RogerDat]

When I pulled it home after years of neglect the people here were a life line, Wikipedia, and cheerleading squad of camper knowledge all rolled into one. I have a great deal of confidence that you and Miss Terra Pin will end up in a very good place after all your work.

Small washer does make a huge difference. Otherwise I think the thin edge of fiberglass pulls toward the window as much as the window pulls toward the wall. Important to tighten evenly and gradually so the putty has time to squish a bit all the way around before getting the final pull that pops the rivet.

I also think using machine screws to tighten at corners can get tighter than rivets. Possibly even tighten with machine screws and replace those with rivets one at a time.

I wasn't thinking. With the window pane and screen out you don't need a second person as much. You can reach through opening to put a washer on the rivet or hold the nut on a stainless steel machine screw while you tighten.

Looking back I wonder if using small C or spring clamps to draw window frame in tight against butyl tape would have worked better. Then rivet is just pulling against already tight window to wall seal. Small C clamps can be adjusted to get a nice tight seal then rivet to secure that tight seal. Spring clamps are easier to use but not adjustable.