Hehr Window Issue

[Triker]

UPDATE: Please read post #8 before attempting any repairs to your Hehr windows.

Recently, Hehr has manufactured some windows without adequate sealant. If you have one (or more) of these in your new Scamp, you will notice water collecting on either or both sides of the center frame. The water is SUPPOSE to only collect in the middle section, and then exits via the weep holes. The following pics, courtesy of Micah Eveland @ SCAMP, show where to seal with silicone.

Apparently it is natural for water to enter the windows, even when closed, but the water is NOT to flow into the sides. Also, make sure the weep holes stay clean. I've heard of using weedeater line to clear debris.

[Mikmay]

Ann the issue with the hehr operating Windows is that they are designed to be fitted into a flat level wall like 99% of all trailers built . The problem with some egg shaped trailers is they are on a slight angle which allows for poor drainage of the sill as it should normally be on a slight angle.the only real solution is to make sure your trailer sits as level as possible and the weep holes are clear and keep a sponge handy to clear out the excess water. Unfortunately there is no window manufacturer that makes Windows exclusively for egg shaped trailers as well as other products and we in the fg egg shaped community must adapt the best we can.The big advantage we have is that a few drops of water we have if checked promptly causes no damage as compared to a leaky framed trailer window which can cause much damage.

[gordon2]

Did you by chance talk to Hehr about this, or only Micah?

EDIT: I'm going to follow this very closely and hope to find out what Hehr says on the matter.

All of my Hehr jalousie style windows are as shown in this photo. There is a half circle cut out that allows water to flow into and out of the side tracks (and then to the weep hole). My 8 month trailer is always in the elements and subject to plenty of rain. I have often seen water in the side tracks and if the trailer is not level, some of it will not drain. I have had four different leaks but IN NO CASE did water come into the trailer from the windows except for sitting in the side track of the windows (and only there) at times.

If the area indicated by Micah was supposed to be sealed, then why would Hehr put the half circle cutout there in the first place? Also, if this area is sealed, how will condensation drain?

I have a sneaking suspicion that Scamp (and not Hehr) is suggestion this sealant because of the slanted walls of the trailer (that is not present in "square" walls), or only to try and keep customer(s) happy by addressing a concern that is not really a problem. But I am no expert on this so I wait and see what others say.

[Raz]

I have the same windows in my Trillium. Yes they do seep. But you also get condensation on both the center and the side lights. If the trailer is level, any water in the bottom tray will flow to the weep holes. I think the open space at the bottom of the vertical member allows this to occur. I would not seal it. If the trailer is not level then water can accumulate on one side of the window. I keep a small sponge to take care of it. In 6 years I've never had an overflow.

[Triker]

Thank you for the info! I posted the 'fix' I had received from SCAMP as there was a discussion on the Scamp Travel Trailers Facebook pages last night.

If someone would like to contact Hehr on this, I would like to hear their input! If not, I will contact them myself, but doubt I'll be able to get to it this week.

Interesting there are windows with an actual half-moon cutout. I have not done this fix, as I wanted to use the black windshield sealant for autos and just haven't made the time to get to the auto parts store. I will now wait.

FYI - I did ask Micah last month if it was okay to post his pics/info, and he said 'yes'. I have had great Customer Service, and plan to share my findings with him, also, just in case he/SCAMP doesn't read this thread.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Triker

...
If someone would like to contact Hehr on this, I would like to hear their input! If not, I will contact them myself, but doubt I'll be able to get to it this week.
...

Please talk to them and let us know what they say.. I for one am in no hurry and can wait a week since the water in the side tracks is not a problem for me. If I do have to park off level and it does not fully drain, I just mop it up.

BTW I have talked to three manufactures of things used in my Scamp (but made by other companies) and received good information, including debunking one myth that had been circulating on the forum. I always like to go to the top authority.

[gordon2]

So being retired and having too much time on my hands..

I tried a little experiment.

Using an eye dropper I slowly added water to the very outside of the window track as shown in the photo. I checked to see if the water drained out before it rose to the level of the half-circle hole in the vertical section. In four windows, eight side total, the water drained out of only one when it was below the half circle hole.

So perhaps this area is supposed to be sealed but not the hafl circle hole.

Hehr would know.

[Triker]

After my phone conversation with a very helpful Hehr representative, I sent the following email to verify their suggestion to stop water from coming into the side panes:

'Caulk on the outside of the window, under the top horizontal gasket, on both sides. I’ve attached a photo showing my fingers holding open that gasket; and a pic of the outside of the window and I drew orange arrows. Is this correct?'

(Pics are at the bottom, sorry, I couldn't figure out how to embed them here in my post.)


Hehr: The spots that you have marked are the correct spots that I was talking about caulking.

Me: What type of caulk should I use?

Hehr: . You can use the caulk like you would put on your bathroom tub or they may have some at the automotive store that they could recommend.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Triker

After my phone conversation with a very helpful Hehr representative,...

Thanks for the update. I assume you are going to do as Hehr suggested so please let us know if it helps.

I still have to wonder about this "fix." None of my windows have any caulking or sealant in this location and I don't think I have a problem. I would, however, take the word of Hehr any day over Eveland's when it comes to leaks in a properly installed Hehr window.

[Mikmay]

Originally Posted by Triker

After my phone conversation with a very helpful Hehr representative, I sent the following email to verify their suggestion to stop water from coming into the side panes:

'Caulk on the outside of the window, under the top horizontal gasket, on both sides. I’ve attached a photo showing my fingers holding open that gasket; and a pic of the outside of the window and I drew orange arrows. Is this correct?'

(Pics are at the bottom, sorry, I couldn't figure out how to embed them here in my post.)


Hehr: The spots that you have marked are the correct spots that I was talking about caulking.

Me: What type of caulk should I use?

Hehr: . You can use the caulk like you would put on your bathroom tub or they may have some at the automotive store that they could recommend.

This is the same advice we got from the hehr representive who came to our shop.it may stop a leak on a stationary trailer but not on one being towed in the rain as the vacuum pressure of a moving trailer will draw in the water throug the tiniest of openings.

[Triker]

Good to know, thanks! It does rain here on the wet coast, and I did notice quite a bit of water coming in while the trailer is parked. So I will squeeze a bit of caulk under the edges of one window and try it out. But I'm not too worried about it for a couple months now; although we did have 1/2" of rain yesterday!

[Bill MN]

Originally Posted by Triker

Good to know, thanks! It does rain here on the wet coast, and I did notice quite a bit of water coming in while the trailer is parked. So I will squeeze a bit of caulk under the edges of one window and try it out. But I'm not too worried about it for a couple months now; although we did have 1/2" of rain yesterday!

Hi, Ann— I'm wondering if the fix you were recommended by Hehr seemed to be a permanent solution; I'm having this exact problem on my 2017 13' Scamp only a month out of the Scamp building. I searched and found this thread and fix of yours. Another question, what did you use as caulk, and did you have any trouble after opening the window and closing it? Did the caulk you use maintain it's integrity, or did it start leaking again?

Thanks for any help you can be!

Bill

[floyd]

It is just plain silly to blame the shape of the trailer for the window leaks.
(just don't use them for skylights)
I have sliders, and as long as the tracks are clean and the drains are clear, the water drains to the outside of the trailer. It would take a real "frog strangler" to get a significant amount of water inside.

There is a flat boss for the large rear window on my Scamp and not on the side windows and there is no evidence that the side windows of the same design are any more prone to infiltration.

Either the fault is in the window design or it is in the maintenance of the drains. Any good window design should drain to the outside, even if it is parked a couple of degrees off plumb.

[Mikmay]

Originally Posted by floyd

It is just plain silly to blame the shape of the trailer for the window leaks.
(just don't use them for skylights)
I have sliders, and as long as the tracks are clean and the drains are clear, the water drains to the outside of the trailer. It would take a real "frog strangler" to get a significant amount of water inside.

There is a flat boss for the large rear window on my Scamp and not on the side windows and there is no evidence that the side windows of the same design are any more prone to infiltration.

Either the fault is in the window design or it is in the maintenance of the drains. Any good window design should drain to the outside, even if it is parked a couple of degrees off plumb.

Well Floyd you may think it's silly but we are talking about jailhouse windows and not sliders and I have seen the difference it makes ,just jack up one side of the trailer until the window is level and you will see it drain proper.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Mikmay

Well Floyd you may think it's silly but we are talking about jailhouse windows and not sliders and I have seen the difference it makes ,just jack up one side of the trailer until the window is level and you will see it drain proper.

Assuming what you say is true, the fault lies with an inadequate drain design, not with slight off plumb design of the trailer. A trailer has wheels and not a foundation, so if the window is designed to drain only when perfectly plumb it is a bad design.
If the same window was in a square box (bad aero) stick built, then it would drain to the inside virtually any time it overnighted in the rain at a rest area or a Walmart since parking lots are intentionally off level for drainage.

Is the lip of the sill on the jaulousie window nearly level with the drain opening when the window is plumb?

While slider drains work well at virtually any tolerable angle, they could still be considered somewhat marginal since they require frequent manual cleaning and can't really self rinse much.

Since it is impractical and unwarranted to change the shape of the trailer, other measures could be considered in addition to those offered so far...

1] How about a gutter or diverter over the window? Would that help?
2]Additional lip or barrier inside? I don't know if that's possible or practical.
3] Enlarge the drain opening itself and/or keep it clean?
4] Open the windows in the rain? I am told that the design is superior to sliders because they keep the rain out when open.(snark)

One last possibility...
Is the problem great enough to warrant any action other than keeping a washcloth handy for monsoons?

[Triker]

I never did caulk under the horizontal gasket, or any place on/around any window.

I'm keeping the trailer level and not had a problem; yet. Frequently poke around the drains, too.

As it was suggested to me, I have found it best to go to the manufacturer of whatever item I'm having problems with. I called Suburban re: stove, I've called Dometic re: fridge, Hehr re: windows, etc.

Happy Trails!

[Bill MN]

Thanks for all of the knowledge and advice. For the last few days every time we had a little drizzle this leaky window problem would show up. Yesterday we had two episodes of very hard rain, and no water showed up in the window at all! I think I will follow what seems to be the consensus advice, here, and not attempt any "repairs" that could lead to other, unanticipated problems.