How to fix my scamp table - Fiberglass RV


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Old 09-26-2021, 12:07 PM   #1
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Name: John
Trailer: Scamp 1995 19'
North Carolina
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How to fix my scamp table

At the back end of my 1995 Scamp 19' is the table and bench seats. The left side of the table has forever been "slipping out" and dropping. I finally looked at the underside and the left most bracket that the wire rests in are missing all four screws. I found two but...

I assume there must be a piece of plywood behind that area that the screws screw into? I tried screwing back in and nothing! I am afraid to just go with longer screws since, not knowing what is back there, I could go right through the fiberglass.

Does anyone know if there is in fact a piece of plywood in the wall behind the table mounting brackets? It looks like I could just offset the bracket towards the middle an inch and have fresh wood to screw into, assuming there is any of course.
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Old 09-26-2021, 02:17 PM   #2
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Old 09-26-2021, 06:11 PM   #3
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Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon2 View Post

Precisely what I needed to know.
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Old 09-26-2021, 07:30 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby123 View Post
Precisely what I needed to know.
Good.. now its your turn... and going totally off topic (might move this to the other thread but it went off topic and is now about inverters )
  • My Chins 100Ah LifePo4 arrives in four days.
  • I want to use it in the 20 - 80 % charge range.. For the most part I am not worried about 80 Ah vs 90-95 Ah available but the option to charge it all the way would be nice.
  • I have a PD9100 converter with Charge Wizard. I can remove the Charge Wizard.
  • I also have a CTEK 7002 charger.
  • I'm having a heck of a hard time figuring out if either or both of these chargers will be OK, or if I should buy a LifePo4 charger. So what do you think? Buy a new charger?

Ctek 7002:
Normal mode: 14.4 VDC
Snowflake mode: 14.7 VDC (.1 over max for Chins LifePo4)
Supply: 13.6 VDC
Recondition Mode: Not even worth mentioning.. 15.7 VDC and way over max limit.

PD9100:
13.6 VDC, 30 amps

PD9100 with charge wizard:
Norm mode: 13.6 VDC
Boost mode: 14.4 VDC (prob has to be manually activated)
Storage Mode: 13.2 VDC (if no load in 30 hours)
Desulf Mode: 14.4 VDC for 15 minutes every 21 hours.

My concern with using the Boost mode with the charge wizard is that it might end too soon to charge the LifePo4 since it "thinks" it is charging a LA or SLA. Then would the Desulf mode for 15 mins every 21 hours be enough to do the additional charging for the LifePo4 over a lead acid?

I guess what I want is a BMS that reports the true state of charge... maybe this $360 100Ah LifePo4 is not the best choice, but that price!

Chins Specs

Charging Limit Voltage: 14.6V
Over Voltage Disconnect Voltage: 15V
Over Voltage Reconnect Voltage: 14.2V
Float Charging Voltage: 13.8V
Discharging
Low Voltage Disconnect Voltage: 10.8V
Low Voltage Reconnect Voltage: 11.6V
Under Voltage Warning Voltage: 12.4V
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Old 09-26-2021, 08:13 PM   #5
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Name: John
Trailer: Scamp 1995 19'
North Carolina
Posts: 287
Here's what I think

Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon2 View Post
Good.. now its your turn... and going totally off topic (might move this to the other thread but it went off topic and is now about inverters )
  • My Chins 100Ah LifePo4 arrives in four days.
  • I want to use it in the 20 - 80 % charge range.. For the most part I am not worried about 80 Ah vs 90-95 Ah available but the option to charge it all the way would be nice.
  • I have a PD9100 converter with Charge Wizard. I can remove the Charge Wizard.
  • I also have a CTEK 7002 charger.
  • I'm having a heck of a hard time figuring out if either or both of these chargers will be OK, or if I should buy a LifePo4 charger. So what do you think? Buy a new charger?

Ctek 7002:
Normal mode: 14.4 VDC
Snowflake mode: 14.7 VDC (.1 over max for Chins LifePo4)
Supply: 13.6 VDC
Recondition Mode: Not even worth mentioning.. 15.7 VDC and way over max limit.

PD9100:
13.6 VDC, 30 amps

PD9100 with charge wizard:
Norm mode: 13.6 VDC
Boost mode: 14.4 VDC (prob has to be manually activated)
Storage Mode: 13.2 VDC (if no load in 30 hours)
Desulf Mode: 14.4 VDC for 15 minutes every 21 hours.

My concern with using the Boost mode with the charge wizard is that it might end too soon to charge the LifePo4 since it "thinks" it is charging a LA or SLA. Then would the Desulf mode for 15 mins every 21 hours be enough to do the additional charging for the LifePo4 over a lead acid?

I guess what I want is a BMS that reports the true state of charge... maybe this $360 100Ah LifePo4 is not the best choice, but that price!

Chins Specs

Charging Limit Voltage: 14.6V
Over Voltage Disconnect Voltage: 15V
Over Voltage Reconnect Voltage: 14.2V
Float Charging Voltage: 13.8V
Discharging
Low Voltage Disconnect Voltage: 10.8V
Low Voltage Reconnect Voltage: 11.6V
Under Voltage Warning Voltage: 12.4V
I believe that the charger doesn't work on time but rather on amps being accepted by the battery. If you think about it, the charger doesn't know how big the battery is, and therefore can't "know" how long it is going to take to charge, it can only know how much current is being accepted at any given time.

So I believe that the charger watches the current profile. Which of course is entirely different in a LiFePO4 than a PbA battery. The charger will see a huge current being accepted clear up to the knee of the LiFePO4 and will continue to provide that current. In effect it will "think" that you have a huge PbA battery.

Now... when that current starts to drop, which is determined by the battery not the charger... then it will switch modes, thinking that the PbA battery (which it believes it is charging) is now about 80% charged and thinks it therefore needs to slow down the charge current.

But... by then your LiFePO4 battery is already starting up the knee and almost fully charged, probably about 95-98% charged.

The only "gotcha" here is that you will have to tell the charger to start charging, by pressing the button on the dongle thingie.

BTW even this is not entirely true. The LiFePO4 will eventually drop into the discharge knee and the charger will eventually see a voltage that it believes "needs charging" (around 12.2 maybe?) and will turn on the charge current. The only downside is that the battery will discharge clear down to that discharge knee before the charger turns on.

Other than that, I believe that the charger works as well or better than with a PbA because the battery itself accepts high current all the way to almost charged.

That is what I believe.
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Old 09-27-2021, 06:18 AM   #6
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John, if the wood isn’t rotted and the screws holes are just enlarged, you may also want to consider threaded inserts. Drill the existing holes larger being careful not to drill too deep. Install them with a screwdriver (some are made to be used with an installation tool, basically a driver that fits in a recess). Then you can use bolts or machine screws (with blue Locktite) to attach the brackets.
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Old 09-27-2021, 08:29 AM   #7
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Unless I cut open the rat fur there isn't a way to assess the condition of the holes.
I'll probably just shift the bracket right an inch and start with new screws.
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Old 09-27-2021, 03:53 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby123 View Post
..
That is what I believe.
I believe I will need to do some testing...

The Charge Wizard insert says

In boost mode they charge wizard automatically increases converter output voltage to 14.4 volts DC when it senses your battery is heavily discharged. This mode will recharge your battery to 90% of full charge in two to three hours which is about 300% faster than other products. After your battery reaches 90% of full charge, the charge wizard automatically returns the power converter to the normal mode to safely complete the charging.


Now the boost mode can be initiated by pressing the button but with the inherently higher voltage in the LifePo4, the Charge Wizard might well think the battery is 90% charged too soon and lower the voltage. And it might even have a time out. So I'' try it and see what happens.
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Old 09-27-2021, 07:43 PM   #9
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Trailer: Scamp 1995 19'
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Yes please

Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon2 View Post
I believe I will need to do some testing...

The Charge Wizard insert says

In boost mode they charge wizard automatically increases converter output voltage to 14.4 volts DC when it senses your battery is heavily discharged. This mode will recharge your battery to 90% of full charge in two to three hours which is about 300% faster than other products. After your battery reaches 90% of full charge, the charge wizard automatically returns the power converter to the normal mode to safely complete the charging.


Now the boost mode can be initiated by pressing the button but with the inherently higher voltage in the LifePo4, the Charge Wizard might well think the battery is 90% charged too soon and lower the voltage. And it might even have a time out. So I'' try it and see what happens.
What does "90% charged" mean? Inconvenient that they do not specify. However I think they are watching the current, not the voltage. If that were not the case then the Battle Born batteries could not use a lead acid profile, and Battle Born claims that their battery can just be dropped in.

I have pressed the button many times. It starts a flash pattern indicating that it is doing a charge. I have never actually run down the battery to the point where a charge should start automatically.

I keep my rv plugged in while in my driveway. I do take my daughter "camping" locally where we are off grid however the battery is so large that we never actually run it down to the discharge knee, since I only have a 300w inverter ATM, and we only use that for plugging in our computers.

When we come back I plug back in. I do not expect the charger to understand that the battery needs charging unless it is down in the discharge knee. So periodically (or before a camping trip) I reach over and press the button.

It is my understanding that pressing the button forces the charger to start a charge cycle. I don't believe it will "automatically" charge unless the battery is down in the discharge knee at a voltage similar to a lead acid battery would be.
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Old 09-28-2021, 08:02 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby123 View Post
What does "90% charged" mean? Inconvenient that they do not specify. ...
Thats the $64,000 question. PD is very vague about their product.
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Old 09-28-2021, 01:33 PM   #11
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Name: John
Trailer: Scamp 1995 19'
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1.25" #6 screws aren't long enough

I bought #6 1 1/4" screws to fasten the bracket to the wall. It seems that the insulation and rat fur is that thick. The screws never even touched wood.



I shifted the bracket to the right (centerwards) one inch and then I screwed them in as far as I could press the bracket into the rat fur. It is "holding" but not in wood. It sure looks like a 2" screw is in order.



Or the wood is rotted. But it just didn't feel like there was anything solid back there.
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Old 09-28-2021, 02:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwcolby123 View Post
..
Or the wood is rotted. But it just didn't feel like there was anything solid back there.
Could be.. sometimes the spare tire bracket leaks. Did you use the same size screws that are on the other side? If so maybe time to strip off some rat fur and check the wood, including moisture content. Rat fur can me reapplied and look almost as good a original.
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