Inverters - Fiberglass RV


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Old 02-10-2003, 11:14 PM   #1
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Inverters

Hi all
What do you all think about the use of an Inverter.I got one today so we can use a small 13'' TV.Will It drain down my battery faster.If I had of bought a AC/DC TV the cost would have been almost triple.



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Old 02-10-2003, 11:28 PM   #2
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inverter

Ches

Not enuf info...you would have to have the power consumption of the 12vdc tv and compare it to the power consumption of the 110ac tv and then know the efficiency of the inverter to get a fair comparison. Pros and cons....at least with the inverter, if it's big enough, you can run some other small appliances that are not available in dc or too costly to buy for occasional use.

If it works and your happy....don't worry :wave

IMHO



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Old 02-10-2003, 11:39 PM   #3
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inverters

Ches

Having said that.....I might remind you to look on the back of the tv and see how many watts it takes to run and check the inverter for it's continous output rating !!

I think most inexpensive inverters use a modified sine wave circuit which should be OK for your tv if the ratings are compatible. There are more expensive pure sine power inverters but that would defeat your cost benefit goals.

More than you wanted to know...:conf



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Old 02-11-2003, 12:08 AM   #4
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Quote:
Orginally posted by Noel M. Lutsey

Ches

Having said that.....I might remind you to look on the back of the tv and see how many watts it takes to run and check the inverter for it's continous output rating !!

I think most inexpensive inverters use a modified sine wave circuit which should be OK for your tv if the ratings are compatible. There are more expensive pure sine power inverters but that would defeat your cost benefit goals.

More than you wanted to know...:conf
Well Noel
Thats more than I knew before.:lol2

OK tommorrow I will do as you said.:wave



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Old 02-11-2003, 01:20 AM   #5
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The TV

Hi Ches and Marie,
I have a 13" TV on my boat that is runn from two golf cart batteries.
I paln to do the same with my trailer. The golf cart batteries are different from the 8-D "Cat" batteries that I think you are mentioning. The batteries should have an amp hour rating not a Cold Crank Amp rating or CCA, these are for starting amperage. The Golf cart batteries are designed to be very deep cycle batteries.
and when charged fully provide a very good supply of 12 volt power for an inverter. I have a 600 watt inverter in my truck and a 1500 in the boat. TV sets will have the ratings on the back that should allow you to calculate how much amperage is required. Make sure the leads from the battery are adequetly sized. On my 600 watt inverter I use #4 awg.

Set it up go for it in your driveway one night and see what happens.

Tony From B.C.



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Old 02-11-2003, 07:24 AM   #6
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In my experience with portable inverters, ranging from 100W to 2200W units, they are suitable for small electronics. If you test the output of your inverter, chances are you will see that it puts out about 95-99 volts - quite a bit short of the 115 they claim. Small electronic devices (those that have a power supply and lower internal voltage -- TVs, radios, laptops, ...) will do fine, but motorized devices won't do well. Motors will overheat on low voltage, which damages the motor windings, and also damages the inverter. My last inverter -- 2200W, tapped straight off the electrical system of my truck, burst into flames when I tried running my high efficiency deepfreeze (less than 200W draw, ~1000W at startup) during an extended power outage. Fortunately, the freezer wasn't damaged. After that happened, I checked all my inverters (three others) and found that not one of them produced even a full 100V, let alone 110-115. I tried running a 105W dorm fridge off a 350W/500W inverter, and it wouldn't run.



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Old 02-11-2003, 07:46 AM   #7
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We use an inverter with a large marine battery to run our chain saw. It take a lot of start up torque, but don't know the run watts required. works great. heavy as heck though, so we mounted it on on a furniture type dolly. have had is for about three years, same battery. then *they* come out with those combined units on wheels. somebody must have been looken over our shoulder. :) Ideas get out there in the wind and everyone can grab it. :crazy-ii



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Old 02-11-2003, 08:04 AM   #8
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Hot seat!

Thanks Paul. I mounted one under the seat to charge my camera batteries. That would not be a good place to have a fire. I will take it out today.:drillsrgt Smoky Bear



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Old 02-11-2003, 08:14 AM   #9
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Quote:
Orginally posted by Paul E Henning

In my experience with portable inverters, ranging from 100W to 2200W units, they are suitable for small electronics. If you test the output of your inverter, chances are you will see that it puts out about 95-99 volts - quite a bit short of the 115 they claim. Small electronic devices (those that have a power supply and lower internal voltage -- TVs, radios, laptops, ...) will do fine, but motorized devices won't do well. Motors will overheat on low voltage, which damages the motor windings, and also damages the inverter. My last inverter -- 2200W, tapped straight off the electrical system of my truck, burst into flames when I tried running my high efficiency deepfreeze (less than 200W draw, ~1000W at startup) during an extended power outage. Fortunately, the freezer wasn't damaged. After that happened, I checked all my inverters (three others) and found that not one of them produced even a full 100V, let alone 110-115. I tried running a 105W dorm fridge off a 350W/500W inverter, and it wouldn't run.
I just don't understand this. is it doesn't work how can they sell them. I'll have to go check the power output of ours. it has run the 27 inch TV wiith no porblem and just about anything else we care to plug in. maybe it's bigger. it doesn't get hot. the only problem is if we run it for hours, we have to charge the battery.



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Old 02-11-2003, 11:27 AM   #10
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Jana - Unfortunately, I don't have a good answer to that. I've always believed in delivering what the customer expects. Sadly, many companies don't follow the same motto. I can't even count how many products I've bought that simply don't do what they are "designed" to do. My big inverter was supposedly a really good, fan cooled, logic controlled unit, and cost me over $400. Needless to say, I was a bit peeved, especially since it happened a couple months out of warranty.



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Old 02-11-2003, 12:49 PM   #11
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Noel
54 watt tv. 300 watt inverter.So if I understand 54 divided by 12 =4.5 amps.That would only be short term use.EG News when Boondocking.Am I on right path.:wak



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Old 02-11-2003, 02:23 PM   #12
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Inverter

4.5 A. Pretty much the way I understand it.

If you want EXTRA precision, find out what your inverters efficiency is. My Radio Shark inverter alleges 90% efficiency. It needs 60 watts from the battery side to invert to 54 watts on the AC (TV) side. With the Radio Shark, I'd consume 5.0 amps per hour.

If I run the TV for two hours and I'd have 10 amp-hours of battery capacity I'd have to return somehow. Run a 10 amp charger for an hour?



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Old 02-11-2003, 02:32 PM   #13
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Hi Steve
There is no efficiency rating on inverter or in instuction booklet.



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Old 02-11-2003, 03:42 PM   #14
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batteries

Ches

Stev's info is pretty close.
RV Batteries are usually 12 volt, and available in a variety of capacities up to 100 amp-hours.
Check the rating of your battery.
Divide by 5 amps for the hours available ie: 5 into 100 = 20 hours (in a perfect world - mileage may vary in ours). 90% may be opptimistic but not unreasonable.

http://www.blacklakeny.com/battery.html

see above for battery info

;)



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Old 02-11-2003, 04:57 PM   #15
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Noel
Thanks.You got me working now.Running all over the place.;)



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Old 02-11-2003, 05:04 PM   #16
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Noel
I am running 2- 100 amp batteries.So this should put me in a range of 25 run hrs plus.:conf



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Old 02-12-2003, 12:37 AM   #17
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Hi Folks,:wave

Geek alert! Geek Alert! Just a couple (dozens?) of words regarding ''inverters'', ''modified'' sine waves, ''real'' sine waves, average responding meters and true rms meters.:zz

I saw these postings about low voltage out of a power inverter so I just had to do a little experiment.

I just happen to have a little 300W inverter sitting on my junk pile... errr uh I mean my instrument bench, just waiting for a purpose in life. A ha! I thought, I might just hook it up to a 12 volt battery and measure the no load output voltage.

With a 12 volt input that lousy thing only put out a measly 104.1 Vac. I thought to myself Costco sure screwed me when I bought that piece of junk! Uh but wait a minute, I seem to recall some of the fine print that mentioned something about "true RMS" responding meters........

Soooooo When I measured the no load output of that piece of junk with a true RMS meter it said 123.2 Vac. Much closer to the promised 120 Vac that the inverter advertisement barked about.

Beware of this idiosyncrasy! When measuring the ''modified'' sine wave voltage with an average responding meter the value you get is BOGUS! Most average responding meters measure the average ac voltage and scale it to an RMS (root mean square) value for a pure sine wave, just like you get out of your wall socket. This trick won't work with a square wave, or a triangle wave, or a rectangular wave, or a sawtooth wave or ANYTHING except a true sine wave. Each of these signals have a different scaling factor that relates the average value to the RMS value. The scale factor that equates the average of a sine wave signal to the RMS value of said signal is NOT the same factor that equates a modified sinwave signal to its RMS equivalent. Using an '' average responding'' meter to measure ANYTHING except a purely sinusoidal signal is kinda like trying to measure the dimension of a square hole with a round pin gauge.

The moral of the story is that to measure the actual heating power of juice from a modified sine wave inverter takes a good, and of course, more expensive True RMS meter.

End of Geek alert. Hopefully, this makes things less murky.



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Old 02-12-2003, 01:11 AM   #18
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OK:conf Its amazing how each person here can relate to different areas of disscussion and have a answere.:wave



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Old 02-12-2003, 07:42 AM   #19
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Quote:
Orginally posted by John Ballard
Beware of this idiosyncrasy! When measuring the ''modified'' sine wave voltage with an average responding meter the value you get is BOGUS! Most average responding meters measure the average ac voltage and scale it to an RMS (root mean square) value for a pure sine wave, just like you get out of your wall socket. This trick won't work with a square wave, or a triangle wave, or a rectangular wave, or a sawtooth wave or ANYTHING except a true sine wave. Each of these signals have a different scaling factor that relates the average value to the RMS value. The scale factor that equates the average of a sine wave signal to the RMS value of said signal is NOT the same factor that equates a modified sinwave signal to its RMS equivalent. Using an '' average responding'' meter to measure ANYTHING except a purely sinusoidal signal is kinda like trying to measure the dimension of a square hole with a round pin gauge.
Oh!! Man!!, John, does this make me a geek? I understood this paragraph. well I understood the others too, but I like this square hole - round gauge analagy. :lol



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Old 02-12-2003, 07:55 AM   #20
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Ms. Journeycake, I understood------

--------about the ''sinusoidal signal''.

That's a medical term meaning that a person is ''ready to sneeze.'' Right?

Now that I've passed pre-med, find me a course in pre-Electrical Engineering 101. :zz



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