Is it a leak or moisture issue...or both?

[Otters]

I can use your help. I've read all of the posts about leaks and moisture problems in trailers and I'm still not sure what I should do first for a quick emergency fix. I bought my '77 Scamp in August and there were no signs that there had ever been a leak in the trailer. A couple of weeks ago there was a torrential rain storm that lasted for days. I was out of town at the time and today was the first chance I had to go check on the trailer. Almost the entire ceiling and walls were covered in water droplets but no pooling. Mildew was starting to form on the countertop. Its been a week since it's rained here and the temps are in the 50s fahrenheit during the day and 30-40s at night. I dried everything off and examined for obvious leak points. Its possible that the original ceiling vent is the culprit only because it is old and it doesn't seem to be tightly sealed. I plan to go over in the morning with a fan and dehumidifier. Unfortunately, light rain is predicted tomorrow so I can't do any caulking. I will do more trouble-shooting to determine where the water is coming in from. I don't believe that much water on the ceiling can be attributed to condensation only. Am I right? I'm guessing there must be a leak as well, but there's no obvious entry points other than the possibility of the vent. I am thinking of putting a tarp over the trailer during this rainy season to keep further water from leaking in if it's the vent. Is that a bad idea because of condensation? Has anyone else had this issue with that much condensation (water droplets). Also, will all this water on the ceiling and walls cause mildew or mold behind the ensolite? Are there any steps I can take now to ensure that doesnt happen? I'm so bummed!

[Robin G]

I would agree with you, sounds more like a leak! Maybe in the deep south you would find that much condensation, but Calif I wouldn't think so.



And would think that the "vent" is the issue. But unfortunately leaks can be tricky to find. Can you get that vent covered for the rain perdicted to come tomorrow? I would get plastic over it and secured. Just to try and deflect the rain away from the vent to see if that gives you a clue to if the vent is the culprit or not as well as hopefully keep more water from coming in. But the fiberglass can also do what I think they call (weeping) small pin sized holes in the glass. So that could be the problem. As well as water travels, so the leak may not be where you think it is instead traveling from one end of the trailer to the area your finding the water.



Chalking may not be enough to fix your leak. You may need to take the old vent out and put a new one in or at the very least pull and re-install using Butyl tape. I am sure others will have better suggestions on how to do that project.





Yes, if it doesn't get dried out, aired out it could very well get moldy... Depending on how wet the interior is, I would suggest getting a carpet cleaner/shop vac and start extracting the water as much as possible. Then get the air moving around inside. Fan moving air will help to dry it out. Good Luck!

[Otters]

Thanks Robin. I had not heard about the weeping in FG trailers. But I did read about the weep holes in the windows and plan to clean those out tomorrow. I hate to reinstall the vent right now because I want to install a Fantastic Fan--just don't have time to do it rght now. I'm going to go ahead and cover the vent now as you suggest and I'll check all the rivits and windows carefully. Fortunately, I was planning to pull the carpet out anyway and install laminate or vinyl. So I will remove the carpet tomorrow and maybe that will help with the overall humidity in there.
Linda

[Francesca Knowles]

Almost the entire ceiling and walls were covered in water droplets but no pooling.

Though the vent is very likely the source of some of the water in the trailer, that (quoted) condition is much more likely to have been caused by condensation. Water from a leak is more localized- certainly it wouldn't result in the kind of droplet coverage you describe above.

Fiberglass trailers don't "breathe" like conventionally constructed ones do and must be provided with at least some ventilation most of the time.

My advice for the moment would be to cover the vent temporarily, perhaps with plastic sheeting and good ol' duct tape. Also clean out window weep holes if any appear to be plugged. That should keep the rain out 'til you get the vent repaired/replaced. In addition to that, though, do make sure that you leave windows cracked a bit for air circulation.

Note:
Given the age of your trailer, I'm basing this "open window" advice on the presumption that yours are louvered windows and won't let rain in the way that sliders do.

Francesca

[D Davis]

Linda, I am so sorry. This happened to me with a Pop-up camper. Disheartening, but
you have been given good advice. I would also recomend cleaning with a solution of clorox, dry it out ASAP, Cover it, allowing it to breath.

[Thomas G.]

Given the amount of condensate, it seems likely that there is / was a leak and that water is evaporating and redepositing itself on the ceiling and walls. You might want to look around for a wet, soggy spot on the floor or cushions.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

Given the age of your trailer, I'm basing this "open window" advice on the presumption that yours are louvered windows and won't let rain in the way that sliders do.

In the past I have had pretty heavy condensation in my trailer in heavy rains if there are no windows open. As Francesca suggests the best way to avoid condensation is to keep a window open even when the trailer is in storage. I ended up adding a Window Maxx Vent to my trailer to allow that. I know others who have put roof fan covers on their trailers for the same purpose. Another item that helps with condensation in storage is Dri-Z-Air which you can get at WalMart or an RV store.

[RogerDat]

You might attempt a plastic tent over a partly open roof vent as a test of Carols suggestion of a roof fan cover. Don't tape the plastic sheet covering the vent all the way around and have the vent open a bit. See if that reduces the condensation by allowing air flow and blocking any vent leak.

On Toms suggestion to look for hidden leak pay special attention to the hidden places under couch, seats, closet and kitchen. Look for places the water can get out like where propane line comes through floor or right along the edge of the floor where it meets the wall. Water leaks have a tendancy to flow behind the elephant hide or down it's vertical seams and come out at the bottom along the edge of the wall.

Door seal on top of door can leak and much of the water will run down and out the trailer because floor is a little further back than top of door, and the door is curved so the water only hits the top and bottom. Might look for signs under the couch right next to the door or if the lower hinge bolt heads are rusted a great deal more than the upper hinge bolts.

Good Luck!

[Bob Miller]

As a temporary fix you can also try using some "Eternabond" tape over the edges of the existing roof vent. If you see lots of silicone sealer piled on the roof vent you can almost be sure that's were the leak has started. DO NOT add more to what's there, it will leak again.

[jimmied]

My local RV dealer has a large furnace type fan that he blows in air into the trailer from the ceiling vent and pressurizes the trailer, then sprays the trailer with soapy water to find leaks, which are seen as bubbles.

[Otters]

Thanks for all the good advice which I will follow.

Carol and Francesca: The windows are the tilt out kind (all 4 of them). So unfortunately, I don't think that vent won't work. We have hard blowing rains here than come from the side so its really hard to ventilate the trailer without subjecting it to getting rain inside. I think I'm going to just invest in a fabric carport type cover for it.

I'll give you an update as this all progresses.

Thanks,
Linda

[RogerDat]

There are covers made for egg campers, my concern with them was both ventilation and rub marks from the wind blowing the cover. Maybe someone who has used the covers outside can weigh in?

For us the motivation to get a cover is snow and "road dirt" from traffic that combines to make black streaks as the snow melt runs down the trailer. Which it does off and on all winter long.

[Otters]

I'm a lot more hopeful today thinking I can get the problem under control with minimal damage. Today I removed 2 layers of gross, damp carpet, pad residue and 36 years of dirt. Under the rear dinette table it looks like the window is leaking as the floor under the window was wet. I have the tilt up original windows. I guess it may be belly band instead. I may have to pull out and replace some of the elephant skin under the table if it doesn't dry out completely, but that looks pretty easy since its flat and not a large area.
Luckily the rain and clouds passed and the sun was out so I opened the window and door and dried and cleaned surfaces with bleach solution. There's no rain predicted tonight so I left the window cracked, a fan running and a bucket of damp rid stuff in the sink.
The plan is to go to the RV place tomorrow and get a tube of NON-silicon caulking to seal the window until I can pull it out and reinstall properly. I'll also cover the vent as suggested above.
So far, no smell of mold and mildew. there's a small mildew spot on one of the cushions that I tried to spot clean. If that doesn't do the trick, I'll remove the cushion and have it professionally cleaned. I purchased my SCAMP from the original owners. They'd either recovered the cushions or purchased new ones and they're in like-new condition. For some reason, they left the plastic on the foam under the fabric. So I believe I can clean everything up without the worry of it smelling. I have allergies and cannot tolerate any mildew smell. Wish me luck and thank you all.

I sure wish spring would hurry up and get here.

[RogerDat]

I would suspect the belly band last of all. Belly band is cosmetic, just hides the lip where the top and bottom join. The seal is the top and bottom are fiberglassed together inside when it's assembled. But it does happen, just not often.

You might want to check the weep holes on the bottom outside of the window track. They allow water that runs into the track to drain outside rather than overflow inside. On my 77 the screen runs across those holes and it's easy for them to get clogged. Small unbent paper clip or something like it works well to clean them out.

You might also look at the rubber seal between the window and the frame, it can get pretty crunched and wrinkled over time (especially on the top near the hinge). When I first got mine if you used a hose on one window you could see a line of drips run down the screen. Replaced that seal and it took care of it.

If your water tank is under the same seat as mine the water lines run across that back wall. The fitting where you fill that tank could leak and there is a pretty good path following the water line to under the dinette along the rear wall.

Do you have snap caps to seal the rivets on your curtain rod brackets above that rear window?

One last trick for tracking a leak that can work well since you have the carpet and padding out. Baby powder. Lightly dust a few inch band on the floor along the back wall, I would include under the seats. Then apply water outside to one area at a time, working your way left to right and up from the bottom in small sections. The baby powder will darken as soon as any water seeps into it. Helps find the exact spot it's coming down the wall.

Seems like leaks will sometimes travel a long way from the source along the edge of the floor or behind the elephant hide. If you have a bubble level it can tell you the uphill direction, water only flows downhill.

On mine I had a leak source that was a good three feet along the wall from the wet spot on the floor. Water followed the belly seam fiberglass inside sideways then down behind wall covering to a seam sideways until a seam went down, then along the edge of the wall/floor for some more sideways. To end up with a damp spot about the size of a playing card where the propane line comes in under the couch. I cleaned a mess of silicon caulk off of that front window where it had been caulked and screwed shut by prev. owner to stop the leak that was over by the kitchen.

I hate leaks.

[Otters]

Originally Posted by RogerDat

I would suspect the belly band last of all. Belly band is cosmetic, just hides the lip where the top and bottom join. The seal is the top and bottom are fiberglassed together inside when it's assembled. But it does happen, just not often.

Do you have snap caps to seal the rivets on your curtain rod brackets above that rear window?

I just came to the same conclusion Roger. It seems that only 2 people on the forum have had leaks around the Belly band area. So I won't focus there.
I do not think there are snap caps on the curtain rod brackets. I believe they're after market, and I plan to replace them anyway. So I'll check that out tomorrow. good suggestion.
I had planned to cleanout the window weep holes today but when I looked at them, I didn't see any and thought they must not have them in my window style. Do you have the windows that tilt up? I'll look again tomorrow and look under the screen. I'm also sure the seals should be replaced as I don't think its ever been done. The good thing is the hardware is in good condition and none are missing. I read a thread where they had to be retooled to replace them. I prefer to keep the original window and not replace unless absolutely necessary.

[RogerDat]

My 77 had no snap caps on any outside rivets when I got it. Did not appear that it ever had them. I have been slowly replacing rivets and doing so with snap caps. I applied a little drop of white liquid electrical tape to seal the rivets until I get them replaced.

I have the tilt up windows and they have weep holes, two small round holes a few inches in from each corner. Your lucky that all your hardware is good, the windows are great to use. but the latch brackets that the prop arm hinges on get broken. That was my problem, I made some new ones from aluminum that are working for now.

When I get around to a total window renew I'll look into getting a machine shop to machine a piece of aluminum angle to replace them with really solid ones. Or see if I can hit a friend up to use his bridgeport. But it's been 20 years since I did that sort of work. Can you say making scrap metal not parts?

The windows come out pretty easy for replacing that seal, you just open the window until the prop arms are hanging outside and remove the single screw in the center of the hinge. With screw out window slides out of hinge sideways when opened to about 90 degrees. Little lubricant in the hinge might help it come out smoother and certainly go in easier.

Donna provided me with a link to where one can get new rubber. I just used D shaped stick on foam seal from lowes or HD for now.

[Spanke]

Can't speak for a Scamp but my '78 Trill leaked like a sieve from the roof vent, perimeter windows seals to the trailer and belly band.

The window leaks are likely from the seal to the trailer and not from the mechanism of the windows, but, you may want to look at that also. The wood holding my windows in was completely rotted out so I assumed the perimeter window to trailer seal was shot which it was and verified.

I had rusty stains on the lower benches & closet floor from belly band leaks and on the floor from the roof vent which were all verified (with window leaks) by sitting in the Trill sipping copious amounts of beer in a driving rain storm.

I suggest you buy a 12 pack and investigate one possible leak at a time in a driving rain storm to eliminate all options.

All of this is just speculation on my part for your Scamp, but, as the Spanke Family Motto States: "We may be wrong, but, were are never in doubt"

Good luck on your investigation!

Spanke

[Otters]

Originally Posted by Spanke

I suggest you buy a 12 pack and investigate one possible leak at a time in a driving rain storm to eliminate all options.

All of this is just speculation on my part for your Scamp, but, as the Spanke Family Motto States: "We may be wrong, but, were are never in doubt"

I'll drink to that!
But hoping you're wrong and it's not the whole stinking trailer that's leaking.

[Mike Magee]

The plastic on the cushion foam is often left on because it makes it easier to insert the foam into the fabric. I figured that out when I replaced the foam in my cushions... I re-used the plastic!

[Otters]

Originally Posted by RogerDat

My 77 had no snap caps on any outside rivets when I got it. Did not appear that it ever had them. I have been slowly replacing rivets and doing so with snap caps. I applied a little drop of white liquid electrical tape to seal the rivets until I get them replaced.

Roger, I took another look at my '77 today. It doesn't look like there were ever snap caps on mine either. I'm thinking they didn't come along until later. I'm going to look for that liquid elec tape and do the same with mine for now too. I just looked through your thread on refurbing your 77 Scamp. You did a great job.