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Old 05-15-2015, 09:53 AM   #41
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Myself, I don't think the cost for an Escape is high at all, not for what you get. If the issue is that it is too expensive for one's budget, then they would have to look for something that offers less value, and costs less.

Just as in buying a home. You can get a great price on a $1,000,000 home, or overspend on a $200,000 one.

This is why I say you need to group your first two factors together, and look for good value and service in a product.

Just my take on it.
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Old 05-15-2015, 09:57 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
I truly believe that Escape has a great balance of the three. The first two items are a balance of value. If the quality received is worth the price asked, a proper balance is achieved, and Escape meets this goal. As far as service goes, ask any of the now well over 1,000 Escape purchasers, and you will hear that folks are extremely happy with the service they receive.

Have you ever heard of an unresolved issue with Escape, or at least one they are not trying to deal with?

There is a good reason that Escape owners are thrilled with their purchase, and are ready in a heartbeat to tout it's merits. Sure, there are other great trailers out there, but none that match this balance as well as Escape.

My belief with Parkliner, who I do think makes a great product, is that even if they did not produce near as many trailers for a bit, and focused more on the service end of things, that in short order they would become a more popular company to deal with, resulting in a long term gain.
Thanks for reinforcing my point. I think that Scamp strikes an even better balance of value and service.
Yours and mine... both subjective judgements with merits in their logic.
Scamp is now in its fifth decade and still showing growth and a policy of constant improvement.
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Old 05-15-2015, 10:00 AM   #43
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Business Triangle

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Originally Posted by David Tilston View Post
In business, you can have great quality, great price, and great service. Pick any two. You can't have all three. Parkliner has sacrificed service for the other two. I think that they will do fine.
I was taught almost the same thing at an electrical estimating class ; The example was shown as a triangle ,one point of the triangle was labeled "speed / time" the second point was labeled "quality" and the third point was labeled " cost".
According to the instructor it is nearly impossible to gain all 3. In my 40 years of estimating projects his axiom has proven to be true. The instructor was an EE not an MBA but his message was still valid .
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Old 05-15-2015, 10:03 AM   #44
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I may very well be wrong Bob, but I believe Chandler is not hurting for cash. I think he provided the seed money for the company to begin with, and is probably not worried about buying groceries. So if he doesn't need to get paid, maybe it will work.

It is truly sad to see such a well designed trailer go down the tubes all because of a lack of attention to existing and new customers. Sheesh!

Frank
As I said, it will become a Hobby Company and, if not careful, can run amok of IRS rules for same.

I think that I sense a bit of what I call the "Sheldon Syndrome". Chandler is right in his design, engineering and manufacturing, but he may well feel that being right is enough, and that the lucky customers should be coming to him in awe...

I can't even begin to count how many FGRV builders have come & gone or at least made major changes of ownership in the past 10 years, much less those in the past 40 some years. And a lot of them were very well funded with excellent products to offer.



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Old 05-15-2015, 10:05 AM   #45
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" I managed to reach Chandler, who owns the business. He reported that last year was the best ever"

But to Frank, Sorry we are so poor we have to build more trailers, we can't afford to do your warranty work.
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Old 05-15-2015, 11:04 AM   #46
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Jim, I think you make my point. The balance that you refer to, many call expensive. I don't mean to say that Escape trailers are not worth the cost, but they provide a high quality product, with great customer service, consequently the cost is high.
Compared to what? A Parkliner? A Scamp? A Casita? To do a price comparison one needs to look at what the base price includes on one trailer vs what is optional & not included in the base price of the other. Doing an actual side by side and including the actual costs of the popular optional items that most end up ordering & have to pay extra for on one trailer vs what is included in the base price of the other may result in a surprise or two.

I know the blog is an old one and was based on when Escape was still making a comparable sized trailer (they announced a few months ago they will not be making the 15' any more) for comparison but its worth taking a look at for those who think you need to pay more to get not only a well built trailer but customer service as well.

Sites.google.com Price Comparison for a 15' Parkliner Vs 15' B Escape Comparably Equipped.

Coming from a family that has owned and operated small business I can tell you that all would have struggled &/or failed if they did not put good Customer Service at the top of the companies mandate along with having competitive pricing & selling a product that people want. Family members have had to face the grim reality of having a large multi national company move in next door offering up the same products at a cheaper price - at the end of the day having a reputation of providing Good customer service was the key to keeping or in some cases getting back some of the largest of the monthly accounts that at first switched to the bigger guys due to their slightly lower pricing. Having a rep for good customer service was also the key to not only staying alive but continuing to do well during the worst of economical down turns as well. Proven out when the BIG boys next door closed up & left town during the last economical down turn.
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Old 05-15-2015, 11:11 AM   #47
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Here is the link to the BBB and there, you can read the complaints and why the BBB gave them the rating they did: ParkLiner, Inc Business Review in Gibsonville, NC - Central North Carolina BBB

I would have to say that I have worked with the BBB a few times with issues in different areas and my impression was that "members" came out a little better than non-members. If a member answers to the complaint, it didn't seem to matter if it was resolved or the person filing the complaint was satisfied.

I know there have been legitimate issues with Parkliner customer service but don't always count on the reviews from the BBB, always read the actual complaints since I have found some very trivial in the past. A "pattern" in an issue is a big red flag.

I wonder if there is a chance that the company is changing hands though. A lot of little companies get devoured by the big ones and usually at a cost to quality.
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Old 05-15-2015, 11:46 AM   #48
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Mid April I had a great visit with Tom Bass, I was ready to buy, he was very forthcoming about the issues and where he stands on them. If he was still affilliated with Parkliner I'd cut a check.
i also spoke by phone with Chandler, again, he seemed honest and upfront about the current state of parkliner.
I had watched the back and forth on this forum for over a year, trying to make a decision to buy.
I believe this is one of the best designed FGRVs out there. I'm amazed that there is a problem getting a financial partner given the design, current RV market, and potential customer base. If they were on more solid ground I wouldn't hesitate to buy today, but when you have a goal of one per month I worry about shortcuts and workmanship.
IMO, the wheel well and battery fixes had to have cost a boatload of money to make right for the folks that got the work done. Of course, you cant please everybody, and God knows we've heard plenty from those folks. Customer service is weak? build me a well crafted product and I could care less about that.
There have been several up for sale, all nice trailers, we decided we want new, order what we want and mod as we see fit. Unfortunately, as convinced as I may be about the quality and design of the Parkliner, i can't risk my money on a roll of the dice, but that's just me.
I hear they build a nice trailer in Texas...
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Old 05-15-2015, 12:31 PM   #49
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Buy new. We were going to, but when one like what we planned on ordering came up close by, we jumped on it, not knowing it had been in a minor accident. All things equal, if that one hadn't come up for sale, we would probably have bought new. Things would have been very different, as the wheel well thing and battery issues had been resolved by then. We've moved past that, and we're pleased with what we have. They are great trailers.

Business partnerships are like marriage, just worse. I've been financing companies a long time now, and have seen many fail due to ego, as well as lack of attention to customers. There's an old adage in marketing - it's easy to lose a customer, but almost impossible to get them back. You need to work at keeping what you have. If existing customers are happy, your product will sell itself. I've seen it over and over.

Frank
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Old 05-15-2015, 12:35 PM   #50
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...There's an old adage in marketing - it's easy to lose a customer, but almost impossible to get them back. You need to work at keeping what you have. If existing customers are happy, your product will sell itself. I've seen it over and over.

Frank
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Old 05-15-2015, 01:21 PM   #51
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Old 05-15-2015, 01:23 PM   #52
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Myself, I don't think the cost for an Escape is high at all, not for what you get. If the issue is that it is too expensive for one's budget, then they would have to look for something that offers less value, and costs less.

Just as in buying a home. You can get a great price on a $1,000,000 home, or overspend on a $200,000 one.

This is why I say you need to group your first two factors together, and look for good value and service in a product.

Just my take on it.
Or something that offers more value and costs less.
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Old 05-15-2015, 01:29 PM   #53
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Or something that offers more value and costs less.
If you have an inside line on one of these trailers, let the general membership know of it, and it will become hot ticket item.

Generally, the old adage of "You get what you pay for", for the most part, is quite true.
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Old 05-15-2015, 03:24 PM   #54
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[QUOTE=Carol H;522471]Compared to what? A Parkliner? A Scamp? A Casita? To do a price comparison one needs to look at what the base price includes on one trailer vs what is optional & not included in the base price of the other. Doing an actual side by side and including the actual costs of the popular optional items that most end up ordering & have to pay extra for on one trailer vs what is included in the base price of the other may result in a surprise or two.

I know the blog is an old one and was based on when Escape was still making a comparable sized trailer (they announced a few months ago they will not be making the 15' any more) for comparison but its worth taking a look at for those who think you need to pay more to get not only a well built trailer but customer service as well.

Sites.google.com Price Comparison for a 15' Parkliner Vs 15' B Escape Comparably Equipped.


Here is an updated ParkLiner vs. Escape price comparison (since Escape no longer makes a 15' trailer). This compares a ParkLiner with an Escape 17B. This does not take into account the exchange rate, which obviously changes but it currently favors US folks if they purchase a Canadian made trailer.
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Old 05-15-2015, 03:29 PM   #55
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Links don't work on my end but just click on the left hand area when you get there and it will come up. Good info. Hard to beat Escape, no salesperson to deal with.

(For me anyway) there is also........ "price" and then there is the "cost". The price is what you pay at face value, the cost is what you pay over time.
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Old 05-15-2015, 03:59 PM   #56
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Having seen Floyd's trailer in my opinion it would be hard to argue that Scamp does not provide "Value". I have owned both a Scamp and a Casita and to me both represent value . Escape is a nice trailer and to many is a good value .
All of these trailer serve their intended purpose ,providing shelter when camping or traveling . That being said ,just because a certain trailer costs more does not mean it provides more value . IMHO .If I followed the logic that price is the sole determiner of value then the Oliver is the winner.
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Old 05-15-2015, 04:07 PM   #57
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If you have an inside line on one of these trailers, let the general membership know of it, and it will become hot ticket item.

Generally, the old adage of "You get what you pay for", for the most part, is quite true.
Post# 42 ....and it is still the hottest ticket as it has been for decades.

Value can measured as ROCE "return on capital employed".
That can almost be measured objectively, but not quite.
The criteria heretofore espoused is purely subjective and even after 11 years I expect my travel trailer to deliver many more years of all the satisfying comforts of home in a manageable sized package.
The reliability and manufacturer's support are already proven qualities which have exceeded expectations.
I got what I paid for and more... and have seen no other product which could deliver a better value by any reasonable definition.
Every additional dollar spent would have been wasted, putting the lie to the aforementioned old adage.
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Old 05-15-2015, 04:19 PM   #58
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I got what I paid for and more... and have seen no other product which could deliver a better value by any reasonable definition.
Well said Floyd. There are no winners or losers in this contest. If what you tow suits you and your needs, then life is good. Expecting to convince the whole world that they would be better off, had they purchased something else, won't convince them - it only feeds your inferiority complex. Go camping! Have fun! Make some memories!
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Old 05-15-2015, 05:13 PM   #59
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Get What You Pay For????? NOT???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
If you have an inside line on one of these trailers, let the general membership know of it, and it will become hot ticket item.

Generally, the old adage of "You get what you pay for", for the most part, is quite true.
Except as in the case of a number of Parkliner buyers that didn't get what they paid for, nor did they get remedy or follow-up when they needed warranty repairs.



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Old 05-15-2015, 06:21 PM   #60
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Bob Miller, I have never heard of any new Parkliner buyers that didn't get what they paid for, perhaps you could elaborate. I, for one, am so happy that I have my Parkliner. Whether they stay in business or not I feel like my little camper is a gem and I am so lucky to have her. I hope Chandler gets his act together and gets this company on the right road because this trailer is wonderful and I would love to see more people have the opportunity to own one.
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