joining that gray water line pipe to Pex piping?

[Gerry]

I put water into my tanks today as we are planning some dry camping this summer and found that there is a leak in a fitting where previous owner put in some weird system with a valve to just have cold water and bypass the water heater.
There are a lot of little 2 inch sections of this gray pipe held on with hose clamps.
First, is it easy to get this type of pipe off the fittings?
Second, is there a fitting that can marry this Gray Pipe to regular Pex pipe?
thanks

[Eddie Longest]

In general, PEX can be white, blue or red. There is a real dark red/ orange PEX piping used for heating applications. Gray pipe is Polybutylene (Qest) which was deemed not acceptable for water systems due to leaks from chlorinated water in the mid 90's. Trailers built prior to the mid 90's used quest or Copper.

Qest tubing and fittings which are slightly different from PEX are not available these days. Qest and PEX can be joined with compression fittings and currently you can buy a crimp adapter fitting to go from Qest to PEX which comes with two crimp rings (HD and Lowes). The bright copper crimp ring is for the Qest.

The valves for WH bypass are for winterization of the WH. Hose clamps should not be used with either PEX or Qest. A rag with really hot water can be wrapped around the tubing after the clamp has been removed to help in removing the tubing from the fittings. If all else fails, you can cut the pipe off the fitting with a razor knife. I am not sure if Shark Bite fittings will work with Qest.
Eddie

[Gerry]

Eddie, thanks for the info, as said this mess under the seat was done by previous owner and used either hose clamps or spring clamps on all.
I did go to HD and saw this transition part from Qest to Pex but I do not own that tool to crimp this style band. I own the one that pinches the clamp.
I have about 10 inches to tie back into the Qest pipe and into the valve with a Tee for the hot water tank in between and it is not a straight shot.
I will opt to use some braided hose rated at 200 lbs water pressure, as ths will give me the little bit of flex I will need to make the 10 degree bend in about 5 inches.
Hope all that tugging around in that tight space didn't open other leaks or damage all the wires in that area!

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by Gerry

Eddie, thanks for the info, as said this mess under the seat was done by previous owner and used either hose clamps or spring clamps on all.
I did go to HD and saw this transition part from Qest to Pex but I do not own that tool to crimp this style band. I own the one that pinches the clamp.
I have about 10 inches to tie back into the Qest pipe and into the valve with a Tee for the hot water tank in between and it is not a straight shot.
I will opt to use some braided hose rated at 200 lbs water pressure, as ths will give me the little bit of flex I will need to make the 10 degree bend in about 5 inches.
Hope all that tugging around in that tight space didn't open other leaks or damage all the wires in that area!

You should be able to use the cinch rings, from Lowes, on polybutalene pipe as the OD is the same as the PEX pipe. 5/8" is the OD of 1/2" Poly and 1/2" PEX, the wall thickness is slightly less with Poly, and so the fittings are slightly different. The cinch rings should work perfectly on the poly to PEX adapter fitting. Use the cinch rings and tool from Lowes, instead of the copper crimp ring from Home Depot. You just cant use a conventional hose clamp.

[Gerry]

thanks ... going to get this job done today.
you all are saying you can't just use hose clamps but as said the previous owner used them almost exclusively. those and just spring clamps and I've had no problems in 6 years. This leak developed where a plastic fitting cracked, in threads, where it screwed into the valve and the piping had strain on it due to this slight bend in such a short distance.
If I had more time to re-do the whole system I would but I need to be at campground in a few days to start getting ready for opening day.
thanks for all the advice and I think the if I can push the couplin into the Polybutale pipe with out damaging it everything will be fine.

[Raspy]

Conventional hose clamps do not put even force around the circumference of the pipe. PEX and poly are very hard and need this even force to seal properly against the barbed fittings. Also, the crimp rings, and cinch rings get reduced in diameter by a tool that controls the force on the fitting. Screw clamps can crack plastic fittings. I've seen screw clamps used on vinyl tubing over barbed fittings, and be successful, because the vinyl is so compliant. But it is best to not use those clamps on Poly or PEX. The acetal fittings used with Poly tubing were the main problem with that system. But Poly tubing is a good material and you should have no problems with it, as long as the fittings hold up. The inside diameter is different than PEX. If you have to re-plumb the trailer, you might consider 3/8" PEX. It is smaller, but arguable better than 1/2" PEX because it may help you waste less hot water and it is easier to work with. The flow will not be a problem. I also like the stainless cinch rings because the tool can reach into tight places and because the rings can be removed with a simple wire cutter pliers. Get a PEX cutting tool to snip the tube as needed.

[Gerry]

Good news, got it all done today.
Thanks for all the replies.
Raspy, I took out all the plastic fittings and replaced with Brass. but the shoulders on some were real shallow. By putting 2 hose clamps with the tightening screws on opposite sides of the fitting it puts even pressure on the seal.
Pex fittings do not fit on the gray pipe.
ready to put battery box and battery back in and set up bed over this cubby and I just may be able to get it to the Campground on Monday and save me the 45 minute drive every day to go there to start turning on the water.

[Mike_L]

As an aside, my unit came from the factory with a valved water heater bypass.

[Gerry]

Mike, this valve that I was dealing with isn't a by-pass per say for the water heater.
It is an isolation valve that will either let you get "Cold" water, just from onboard tank in one position, and the other position isolates the Tank and you can have Cold or Hot water from city water only.
Sort of a by-pass but for the onboard tank and water heater.
Weird thing done by previous owner.
I am a licensed plumber so I know all this but what some people do just doesn't make sense and makes one wonder "Why".
As said when i have a bit more time, i will rip all the plumbing out and re-do with Pex.

[Mike_L]

Originally Posted by Gerry

Mike, this valve that I was dealing with isn't a by-pass per say for the water heater.
It is an isolation valve that will either let you get "Cold" water, just from onboard tank in one position, and the other position isolates the Tank and you can have Cold or Hot water from city water only.
Sort of a by-pass but for the onboard tank and water heater.
Weird thing done by previous owner.
I am a licensed plumber so I know all this but what some people do just doesn't make sense and makes one wonder "Why".
As said when i have a bit more time, i will rip all the plumbing out and re-do with Pex.

I hear you Gerry, I've bought used trailers and the plumbing/electrical modifications by previous owners just make me scratch my head.
My unit came with a ball valve on the cold line into and the hot water out of the the propane water heater. It also has a line t fitted between these to lines ahead of these ball valves and this line also has a ball valve which I open when the other valves are closed and vice versa.
I usually replace it all as I don't want these complications interfering with my time camping. Being a plumber this will be a piece of cake for a professional. Good luck!

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by Mike_L

I hear you Gerry, I've bought used trailers and the plumbing/electrical modifications by previous owners just make me scratch my head.
My unit came with a ball valve on the cold line into and the hot water out of the the propane water heater. It also has a line t fitted between these to lines ahead of these ball valves and this line also has a ball valve which I open when the other valves are closed and vice versa.
I usually replace it all as I don't want these complications interfering with my time camping. Being a plumber this will be a piece of cake for a professional. Good luck!

Are you referring to a winter bypass?

[Gerry]

Originally Posted by Raspy

Are you referring to a winter bypass?

it does bypass the water heater and also in addition to just letting you get water from the Potable water tanks in my camper.