Just marine headliner fabric on Scamp... no insulation? - Fiberglass RV
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Old 03-30-2018, 06:55 PM   #1
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Name: Rex
Trailer: 1977 13' Scamp
Texas
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Just marine headliner fabric on Scamp... no insulation?

Has anyone installed marine headliner fabric directly to interior walls of a Scamp? No reflectix or ensolite. Just the fabric. If so how were your results? Thanks!
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Old 03-30-2018, 07:50 PM   #2
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I can tell you that it would not work well.
Hold a piece of ratfur up to the light and you will see that light can go through quite easily.
Also it would not insulate well by itself. it would not heat or cool well.
Your best solution would be to use ratfur over reflextix.

A viable alternative would be to use OZITE in the nondirectional pattern. It comes in several colors it works well to block light and would give a little( not nearly as much) insulation protection.
It would give you somewhere between the the workability of ratfur and the insulation of a foam backed carpet.

Casita uses a closed loop foam backed carpet but it is heavy and comparatively difficult to install or match seams.
OZITE would give you a nice look, it is possible to work with while still being more of a carpet than a fabric.

https://www.yourautotrim.com/80wideozite.html
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Old 03-31-2018, 08:24 AM   #3
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Name: bob
Trailer: Was A-Liner now 13f Scamp
Missouri
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i wouldnt try it

that underlayment is there for finishing out the walls for the ratfur. it will look awful without it do not try this.

I had a 40f converted eagle bus they used 1/2in foam glued to the walls and ceiling then white naugahyde was glued to that.

it made a very nice finish.

bob
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Old 03-31-2018, 12:10 PM   #4
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You would need to use a continuous coating of spray glue to hold the Reflextic to the fiberglass and then a continuous coating of glue to hold the fabric/carpet to the Reflextic. That is fine it can be done but there is a huge major issue with it. When you put spray glue onto Reflextic you have ruined its ability to reflect the heat. The makers of fiberglass boats seem to understand that there is no real benefit to putting a layer of plastic bubbles under the marine liner materials versus the RV crowd who just don't understand that it will never get you enough R value to make it worth the extra work and expense.

The most effective way to control heat gain is by shading the exterior sides of the trailer that the sun hits using awnings or even taping bubble wrap against them on the really hot days. Or better yet park in shade.

In a double walled trailer you can suspend Reflective materials between the layers which means the material does not have any spray glue on it. That method allows it to perform the way it was designed to.

Of course it would be unrealistic of me to think that the advocates of putting spray glue on reflective insulation will ever understand that it is pointless to use reflective insulation if you are going to ruin it with spray glue. They will keep right on telling new members to do it.
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Old 03-31-2018, 01:10 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k corbin View Post
You would need to use a continuous coating of spray glue to hold the Reflecxtic to the fiberglass and then a continuous coating of glue to hold the fabric/carpet to the Reflextic. That is fine it can be done but there is a huge major issue with it. When you put spray glue onto Reflextic you have ruined its ability to reflect the heat. The makers of fiberglass boats seem to understand that there is no real benefit to putting a layer of plastic bubbles under the marine liner materials versus the RV crowd who just don't understand that it will never get you enough R value to make it worth the extra work and expense.

The most effective way to control heat gain is by shading the exterior sides of the trailer that the sun hits using awnings or even taping bubble wrap against them on the really hot days. Or better yet park in shade.

In a double walled trailer you can suspend Reflective materials between the layers which means the material does not have any spray glue on it. That method allows it to perform the way it was designed to.

Of course it would be unrealistic of me to think that the advocates of putting spray glue on reflective insulation will ever understand that it is pointless to use reflective insulation if you are going to ruin it with spray glue. They will keep right on telling new members to do it.
Whether ruined or not, the reflectix/ratur combination used in a Scamp, certainly provides one of the most effective, attractive, and comfortable interior linings in the industry. If there is no "real" benefit, the benefits must only be "fantastic".
I know, I know "Bumblebees can't fly"

Having disassembled a few interiors I can tell you that the glue is not a continuous coating but rather a stringy application.
Also there certainly is an advantage to the reflectix under the ratfur, both in its ability to block (reflect?) light and heat.

Boat's hulls spend time in water. Boat"s hulls (by necessity)are not so thin as to allow light transfer. Ever been inside a single hulled fiberglass trailer with no lining on a sunny day?
.
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Old 03-31-2018, 04:38 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by floyd View Post
Whether ruined or not, the reflextix/ratur combination used in a Scamp, certainly provides one of the most effective, attractive, and comfortable interior linings in the industry. If there is no "real" benefit, the benefits must only be "fantastic".
I know, I know "Bumblebees can't fly"

Having disassembled a few interiors I can tell you that the glue is not a continuous coating but rather a stringy application.
Also there certainly is an advantage to the reflextix under the ratfur, both in its ability to block (reflect?) light and heat.

Boat's hulls spend time in water. Boat"s hulls (by necessity)are not so thin as to allow light tranfer. Ever been inside a single hulled fiberglass trailer with no lining on a sunny day?
.
Yes I have been in several fiberglass RVs with no lining. You can indeed see light through them. You can also see light through the hull of a McGregor sailboat They are made for towing with a trailer. Fiberglass boats are not all created with thick hulls. Generalizations are rarely presenting the whole picture.

Some people test the effectiveness of the insulation by doing a touch test on the inside surface of the fabric wall covering. Touching fabric surfaces with your fingers is not an effective way to measure ambient air temperatures or measure R value.

As to the reflextic reflecting light. That is not how radiant heat barriers work, it is not the light, it is the heat that needs to be reflected. It could be in a totally dark space with a heat source in it and it would still work.

From the department of energy: "To be effective, the reflective surface must face an air space." That air space needs to be at least 1" wide for it to be effective.

Reflextic is a 1/4" thick so that is the total air space inside a sandwich of fiberglass and carpet both of which are right against the Reflextic. While there is reflective Mylar on top of the bubbles the reflective ability generated by the Mylar surface inside of that air space is negated by the plastic material which is not completely transparent the way a sheet of glass would be, that plastic is bonded to the Mylar. It just so happens that at the moment I have a scrap piece of Reflextic that has no coating on one side as it was pulled off by some tape. I just shined a strong LED light at it. There is only a very muted reflection from the surface of the Mylar when I shine it through the un-coated bubbles. What is required for that air space is reflective material facing towards the air space. You are not getting that within the Reflextic, as there is not significant reflective ability within that 1/4" space. You are only getting radiant heat reflection from the outside surfaces.

No doubt about it it Reflextic does a good job of radiant heat reflection. But putting Reflextic against the surface of a fiberglass shell on one side and against the fabric on the other side is not giving you an air space.
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Old 03-31-2018, 04:49 PM   #7
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KC, how true about the feel or touch test. I put reflectix and marine headliner in the sleeping area in our Lil Snoozy because of condensation issues there. It solved the problem and the touch test in the hot Arizona sun feels significantly different between the bare fiberglass and the “insulated” side. I know that it isn’t supposed to work, but it does.
Dave & Paula
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Old 03-31-2018, 06:53 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k corbin View Post
Yes I have been in several fiberglass RVs with no lining. You can indeed see light through them. You can also see light through the hull of a McGregor sailboat They are made for towing with a trailer. Fiberglass boats are not all created with thick hulls. Generalizations are rarely presenting the whole picture.

Some people test the effectiveness of the insulation by doing a touch test on the inside surface of the fabric wall covering. Touching fabric surfaces with your fingers is not an effective way to measure ambient air temperatures or measure R value.

As to the reflextic reflecting light. That is not how radiant heat barriers work, it is not the light, it is the heat that needs to be reflected. It could be in a totally dark space with a heat source in it and it would still work.

From the department of energy: "To be effective, the reflective surface must face an air space." That air space needs to be at least 1" wide for it to be effective.

Reflextic is a 1/4" thick so that is the total air space inside a sandwich of fiberglass and carpet both of which are right against the Reflextic. While there is reflective Mylar on top of the bubbles the reflective ability generated by the Mylar surface inside of that air space is negated by the plastic material which is not completely transparent the way a sheet of glass would be, that plastic is bonded to the Mylar. It just so happens that at the moment I have a scrap piece of Reflextic that has no coating on one side as it was pulled off by some tape. I just shined a strong LED light at it. There is only a very muted reflection from the surface of the Mylar when I shine it through the un-coated bubbles. What is required for that air space is reflective material facing towards the air space. You are not getting that within the Reflextic, as there is not significant reflective ability within that 1/4" space. You are only getting radiant heat reflection from the outside surfaces.

No doubt about it it Reflextic does a good job of radiant heat reflection. But putting Reflextic against the surface of a fiberglass shell on one side and against the fabric on the other side is not giving you an air space.
So ...Bumblebees really can't fly?
Many of your claims may be factually correct, but I see no reason to examine their veracity since they aren't germane.
Fundamentally, the only salient fact here, which you haven't addressed, is that IT WORKS, and it works well!

My trailer is a little small to add enough dead airspace inside the wall to make a significant improvement, especially since it is more than adequate as is. Also it is fitted, as all travel trailers are, with the climate control feature mounted beneath the frame in addition to the wall and roof mounted HVAC.
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