Maintenance & Restoration

David Tilston · 07-18-2014, 11:08 AM

I put a new back window on 45-1101043, but this time I am going to do 45-1100980, (Launch Pad) from top to bottom, starting with the windows.

These pictures are after 3 hours work. Mostly scraping the old window putty, silicone, and glue off, (yuck!).

I still have not removed the front window, but the rock guard / window awning is off.

The shelves above the dinette have been worked on by a PO. It looks like he went to the effort to replace all the wood in the shelves with wood paneling. Lots of work for a subtle difference. Once the windows were removed the shelves drooped. I don't think the PO put any screws into the window frame, or almost any where else. The shelves were just resting on the windows.

Clayton · 07-18-2014, 07:10 PM

Wow, big job! Are you going to re-use the original jalousie windows?

Tyhee · 07-19-2014, 01:55 AM

Follow this with interest. I just did our front window, it was bigger job than expected. A lot of water damage on the top wood but I did not replace due to shelves and ensolite. I had to have it back together for recent trip. I used sometimes 2 toothpicks per screw hole and replaced both side pieces which made a good difference. Bottom was surprisingly good. I used #8 1inch stainless and washers and 2 layers of butyl tape. If I could have found some good nylon washers I would have used them instead. Need to do all windows like yours.
Happy taping and scraping. Better buy the econo pack of butyl tape? Water definitely came in the screws as they rotted in the wood over time.

David Tilston · 07-21-2014, 02:39 AM

Yes, I will re-use the original windows. They are part of what I love about Trilliums.

Of the three mandatory rebuilds, (belly band, door, windows) the windows are the hardest. Specifically getting the wood frames out. It takes a lot of time. Damage to the Ensolite is almost unavoidable. There are now places that the Ensolite is just the cream colored vinyl, no black insulation. Mostly over the corners on the ridge of where the vertical and horizontal bevels meet.

My hands are cramping from gripping a putty knife for the couple of hours I was at it. Only one window was truly rotted, the curb side window. The front window was in the best shape. Maybe in my second window thread, I will leave that one alone. I suspect being under the rock guard / awning protects it.

To do the job properly, it is necessary to remove the shelves. At least the ones over the dinette, if the front windows are in good shape, then the wood doesn't need to be removed, and the shelves, and the back of the gaucho can stay, but the back of the gaucho would need to be supported, because it pulls the bottom piece of wood on the frame out, when the window is removed. So I took it off.

I have the bottom and side pieces out on the windows around the dinette. The kitchen window was easy. Wood was only on the top and bottom, and not glued to anything. The sides were riveted. That was the hard part. Another hour of wood frame removal, then I will cut new wood frames. I would have liked to use marine plywood, but I settled for painting the wood, to preserve it.

John, I like the idea of nylon washers, but I worry that the screw covers might not fit. Did you put the screw covers on?

Since this will have to be done again, in twenty years, (hopefully) I don't plan to glue the ensolite to the frames again, except where it is shoved between the wood frame, and the window. It might look a bit puffy, but I can live with that.

I will post pictures tomorrow.

David Tilston · 07-23-2014, 12:24 PM

This is about 6 hrs of work, so far.

Tyhee · 07-23-2014, 11:19 PM

Your covering good ground! Like you I did not glue the ensolite to the frames figuring I would be revisiting at some point. I had only one screw in the top that stripped out on me with the toothpicks trick. I can live with that for now particularly with new butyl. 're nylon washers I did use the screw covers....all were in good shape so reused. I think if you went to #10 screws they may not fit. Not sure. I'm not happy with how the screw head does not mate flush with the window frame...I used#8 stainless washers too and in hindsight I kind of wished I had not they contribute to the problem with a tiny gap. Technically the screws are covered by the trim/covers and the rock guard but I figure a strong chance of water fining a way in via following the screw into the wood which is exactly what happened with the crappy orig screws. I will try to snap a pic close-up to show you tomorrow. I'm afraid to torque the screws anymore so. Interesting your side window was the worst condition.the gushy double layer of tape helps seal around the screws and holes in window frame for sure. I think over time the tapes breaks down and water finds its way.. I definitely have to order the butyl bulk pack!

David Tilston · 07-24-2014, 10:32 AM

The side window was the only one that was rotten. The rest of the plywood, was still dry and in good shape. The only piece I have not yet removed is the top of the front window.

I was supprised by the factory installation of the kitchen window they didn't put wood on the sides, just rivets. This made sense for the 1300's which didn't have a flat spot in the shell for the window. This meant that sides were a bit curved, but the top and bottom should be straight. Since all 4500's have a kitchen window, they put a flat spot in the shell to accommodate a kitchen window, and room for a wood frame all the way around. It makes sense, to me, to use wood all the way around for the reinstall.

billiam1969 · 07-24-2014, 07:03 PM

Could you tell us which window seals you used and where you purchased them from...thanks!!!

Tyhee · 07-24-2014, 09:59 PM

Gaps between washer, screw head and window / rock guard frame as mentioned.
I used 3/4 wide by 1/8" butyl tape from amazon, great product. Double thickness and installed on very warm day made for good squish.

billiam1969 · 07-25-2014, 05:16 AM

Has anyone replaced the seals in the frames that contact each individual glass pane? The seals in my windows are much different than anything shown at Vintage or other jalousie window repair shops...guess I need to call them and ask...

David Tilston · 07-25-2014, 07:40 PM

Note that some came out with no Ensolite and some with lots. The wood that was most rotted came out the easiest.

The only frame that needed to be replaced was the curb side window. Even that frame was good on the top piece. The rest of the frames were in good shape.

8 hours work, so far.

tbclinton · 01-04-2015, 09:08 PM

What type of wood did you end up using for the windows? We are redoing our 79 Trillium Jubilee and it is currently gutted. We are doing all the windows right now but are trying to figure out the best option for the window frame wood.

David Tilston · 01-07-2015, 10:04 AM

I went cheep and just used 3/4" plywood. Marine plywood would be a better choice.

David Tilston · 01-28-2015, 02:24 PM

I was recently asked about the dimensions of the wood frame. The pieces I have are 2.4" to 2.5" at the widest part, the bottom, or the part that faces the fibreglass. The bevel is 45°. This makes the top flat section about 1.5" wide.
To make them, I cut a 5" wide strip of 3/4" plywood, then I set the table saw at a 45° bevel and "ripped" the strip down the middle.

Martins HeirCon · 01-28-2015, 03:13 PM

Thanks. I wonder if marine plywood is necessary. Shouldn't be unless there's a leak again, right? I have enough scrap AB birch stuff to do the job.

David, are the corners mitered- so that it looks like a picture frame?

Sent from my iPhone using Fiberglass RV

David Tilston · 01-28-2015, 05:01 PM

The untreated wood lasted almost 40 years, so you can expect as much. There will be water, leaks or not. Condensation around the windows is common.

Marv Watson · 01-28-2015, 09:23 PM

My wife and I replaced ALL window frames a couple summers ago. I used 3/4" birch plywood, sealed with spar varnish. I used old frame pieces as templates; they had no mitres, but note bevel.

David Tilston · 02-02-2015, 11:38 AM

Sorry about not answering the miter question. Like Marv said, no miters. The tops and bottoms are long, and the sides fit inside them.

Mikmay · 02-02-2015, 12:11 PM

David I used on the trilliums I've restored composit flat stock it's three times as expensive as wood but will never rot again . It does even out in price when compared to not having to buy a whole sheet of ply .