Noisy water pump.

[peterh]

I'm in the process of re-locating my ShurFlo 2088 water pump, and had a question. In its old location (which is in the way of a hatch door I plan to install) our pump made a racket every time we ran it. ShuFlo calls this pump "quiet," but is there a "quieter" yet affordable pump out there or some change in the way I mount the pump that will help make it run a little quieter. Would it help to install an air-gap, for example?

[Gina D.]

I have seen muffling kits at camping world, but not really looked into them. I suspect it's a cocoon of soft dampeners.. like wrapping your pump in an insulated, but ventilated blanket. Look near the pumps!

The noise does not bother me, so it's a non issue in my case. I know it drives some folks crazy!

[Alf S.]

Hi: Peter... When you re:install the pump try putting it on a computer mouse pad!!! Just a thought!!!
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie

[BobB]

A loop of flexible tubing at the outflow might help, especially if you have rigid tubing in your trailer. An accumulator tank connected to the pump outflow can be helpful as well. If all else fails, buy an expensive pump.

[Frederick L. Simson]

A loop of flexible tubing at the outflow might help, especially if you have rigid tubing in your trailer. An accumulator tank connected to the pump outflow can be helpful as well. If all else fails, buy an expensive pump.

I am going thru the process of upgrading my pump and periferal equipment.
My main complaint is the intermittant short bursts of pump activity while leaving the pump switch on. My pump sounds like a Semi's Jake Brake when activated.

My existing installation has the pump output connected to the plumbing via plyable yet rigid tubing with the input from the tank connected via a very short bit of flex "hose". The shortness of this hose negates it's flexibility IMHO.

I will end up doing everything BobB suggests.
I am installing Shurflo's "Whisper King" with an Accumulator. The Whisper King installation guide instructs to use a minimum of 1 foot of flex hose on both the input AND output. To get it all to fit in the space provided, I'll have to do just that.

[Per Walthinsen]

Now why did you have to open up this can of worms? (sore subject for eight years with no end in sight )

I'm on the third pump with no better results, every design produces the same really irritating pounding. Wife: "It doesn't bother me, no really!" "It keeps the dead awake" is my response.

It is now and has been for a few years an Aquatec variable (?) speed unit which behaves just like the previous Shurflo, even the WhisperKing.

I've tried accumulators, have installed the SurFlo silencer tubing, etc. The system gets purged and still refuses to shut up.

If you gents figure this out please let me know. There may be a reward.

[BobB]

First of all, I'm not the guy who opened this can of worms;-) The pump in our Bigfoot TT is an annoying "knocker" but it doesn't drive me crazy. I am going to try to improve the situation though. No perfection, just trying to minimize the noise. My 2 cents:

The old Shurflo 2088 in our Casita was replaced with a Whisper King, which brought the noise level down to acceptable. We also installed a Shurflo accumulator tank (reduces the number of cycles as well as noise). Be sure to look at the specs if you plan to switch pumps. The WK is 2.0 gpm and 30 psi, compared to 2.8 gpm and 45 psi for the 2088. Less flow and less pressure with the WK! I have no experience with other brands or types of water pumps.

The pump in our Bigfoot TT is not installed correctly IMHO. The pump is connected directly to rigid plumbing and noise is transmitted into the bathroom very efficiently. Sounds like a jackhammer. According to the instructions I have, the pump should be installed with at least a foot of flexible high-pressure braided tubing connected to both the inlet and outflow ports (like Per said). One guy writing into the "10 minute tech" series in Trailer Life swears by a 5 foot coil of tubing connected to the outlet port.

These "knocker" pumps must be mounted to something solid, like the floor of the trailer (thick plywood). The mounting screws should be neither too tight nor too loose. I tried the mousepad and it didn't help my situation. If the rubber mounts are in decent shape, I don't see how the mousepad would help.

Sometimes a noisy pump just needs to be replaced due to worn parts. If this is not acceptable to you, try tightening the screws that connect the pump to the pump motor and any other screws that might have worked loose. These pumps can also be re-built or repaired.

If all else fails, try insulating the space where the pump is mounted with some kind of soundproofing material.

I'm thinking of trying one of the Shurflo Smart Sensor pumps in our TT. Anybody have any experience with them?

[BobB]

On closer inspection the rigid tubing in our trailer is only on the inlet side of the pump (Whisper King) and is part of a valve and snorkel (clear tube) arrangement designed to pump antifreeze into the water lines. I have no idea if this was done at the factory or by a previous owner. The question: does this make the pump noise louder?

Apologies to Per for this "can of worms".

[james kent]

It sounds like the floor is acting like a sounding board, increasing the sound just like moving sound in a guitar. Why not mount the pump on a small SEPARATE piece of plywood and then insulate that from the actual floor of the trailer??? Could you then mount the plywood with solid rubber feet?

[Roy in TO]

It sounds like the floor is acting like a sounding board

Has anyone tried mounting their pump using springs? I know I've seen various compressors and motors mounted this way in other applications.

[BobB]

I found some previous threads related to noisy water pumps. Took some time--I'm not good at this! The dates are June 10, 2006 and Nov 15, 2005.

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/board/index.ph...ater+pump+noise

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/board/index.ph...ater+pump+noise

[BobB]

After crawling on my knees and sticking my head in storage compartments for a while I made a slight modification in the inlet water line. The line was too long, which made the flexible part arch up as it passed through a small hole in the cabinet wall ( the photo above does not show this part). The arching made the water line pass diagonally through the hole and it was jammed tight against the cabinet wall and the fiberglass wall of the bathroom. I'm thinking this was amplifying the sound of the pump. Anyway, I shortened the water line, allowing it to relax and fit loosely through the cabinet wall. To put it another way, I removed the valve for the antifreeze. The mouse pad also was removed, as it wasn't improving the situation. It sounds better now--the rapping sound is gone. I hope it lasts.

The Whisper King may be about the quietest pump of this type (for multiple fixtures). I came across some noise ratings and the WK was lowest at 50 db. The Smart Sensor pumps are louder at higher flow rates, although they are just as quiet at lower flow rates. They also cost a lot more. As mentioned earlier in the is thread, there are some very quiet single fixture pumps.

[Frederick L. Simson]

I am going thru the process of upgrading my pump and periferal equipment.
My main complaint is the intermittant short bursts of pump activity while leaving the pump switch on. [b]My pump sounds like a Semi's Jake Brake when activated.

This is the original water pump.



This is the new pump, in-line filter, and accumulator.

>Silence is Golden!!!<

The flexible hoses:
1. between the tank shut-off valve and the in-line filter and
2. between the pump outlet and the accumulator
are each 18" long.

[Peter & Carolyn]

I'm in the process of re-locating my ShurFlo 2088 water pump, and had a question. In its old location (which is in the way of a hatch door I plan to install) our pump made a racket every time we ran it. ShuFlo calls this pump "quiet," but is there a "quieter" yet affordable pump out there or some change in the way I mount the pump that will help make it run a little quieter. Would it help to install an air-gap, for example?

I have just replaced my water pump and what I did was to NOT attach the pump to the floor it is free floating (it isn't going anywhere). The key to minimizing sound transfer is to keep all connections as flexible as possible. Mounting the pump to the floor increases sound transmission throughout the trailer. I also intend to place a I place a piece of polyurethane foam under the pump, but the pump still won't be secured to the floor. Using this technique, I have found the noise level to be quite low. I also turn the pump switch off when water is not going to be used.

[Kurt & Ann K.]

I think Peter and Carolyn might be on to something by "floating" the pump. Someone in the past mentioned placing the pump on a piece of gardener's kneeling pad.

Now that we are home from vacation, I'll have to add this subject to our "to-do" project list. It'll probably come right after the new floor in the "great room", the circular stair case, installing the new kitchen cabinets (which must be assembled and are stacked in the garage) and installing the counter tops for said kitchen cabinets, drywallling the downstairs room at the other end of the staircase, & oops, I forgot to mention installing the antique pedestal sink in the new bathroom.

It seems like yesterday (in 2006) when we last had this discussion and "Nuestra Casita's" pump still makes a racket. I think it's one of those "out-of-sight, out-of-mind" problems. Maybe it just isn't sufficiently irritating to warrant dismantling the bed (particularly during a trip when all kinds of stuff is stored under it) to allow easy access to the pump. It is after all, still functioning!
And maybe during the next 2 years a truly worthwhile solution will appear instead of just experiments!

Please keep the subject alive until several have reported on the ultimate cure and then post it in the tutorials! Meanwhile, the other projects on my list should keep me "out of mischief"!!!

(With tongue in cheek), thanks for the reminder...
Kurt & Ann K.

[Frederick L. Simson]

[b]These "knocker" pumps must be mounted to something solid, like the floor of the trailer (thick plywood). The mounting screws should be neither too tight nor too loose. I tried the mousepad and it didn't help my situation. If the rubber mounts are in decent shape, I don't see how the mousepad would help.

[b]Sometimes a noisy pump just needs to be replaced due to worn parts. If this is not acceptable to you, try tightening the screws that connect the pump to the pump motor and any other screws that might have worked loose. These pumps can also be re-built or repaired.

Both my old pump and new pump were mounted to the floor thru spongy rubber grommets. However, the Whisper King is so close to silent that I cannot hear it. The sound and water flow mimics the experience of being connected to City Water. I think the majority of the problem was that my old pump was worn out and needed replacing. The increase in water pressure alone attests to that.

[peterh]

Well, I wouldn't call the new pump installation "quiet," but "acceptable." It's much, much better than the jarring noise we used to have. Before I moved the pump the whole trailer seemed to vibrate when the pump came on.



This is the old location, under the curb side dinette bench. The pump was installed just inches from the fresh water tank outlet, and the cold pipe went through that little opening toward the sink.



This is a picture of the same location where the pump used to be installed. Here you can see the pipes that originally clamped directly to the OSB trailer floor around the perimeter of the trailer, snaking around the wheel well and other obstructions have been re-routed. They're now firmly zip tied every 12 inches to holes drilled in the curb the back of the dinette benches rest on. Not only does this reduce the amount of free movement the pipes have, the curb is covered in "rat-fur" that reduces the transmission of vibration.



The new location for the pump is under the street side kitchenette cabinet where my converter and solar charge controller live. The pipes that used to snake around the wheel well clamped to the OSB floor have been re-routed and strapped to the rat-fur cover of the wheel well hump. There is a much longer length of flexible pipe to the re-located fresh water tank, and while the connection between the pump and cold water line is just four inches long, the water pipes are flexible PEX tubing with over a foot on either side of the pump connection before they are firmly secured to the "curb" at the back of the dinette or to the wheel well hump.

I've never used PEX pipe before, but found it was really easy to work with. The only downside is the pipe "T"s "L"s and unions I used are very, very pricey, $3-5 each, but don't require any special tools to install them. Less expensive $1-2 fittings are available, but you need a $80 tool to clamp them in place.

[peterh]

Here's an update on my quest for a quieter water pump installation. Moving the water pipes up off the floor and attaching them to places where the Reflectix insulation and rat fur isolate the vibrations from the shell and floor helped a lot, but I have run into problems with the PEX pipe fittings I used. Some of them leaked.

I think there were two reasons why some of the fittings leaked. One of the straight pipe-to-pipe joint was located in the back corner of the trailer, where the pipe follows the curve of the trailer, and I think the slight movement of the pipe while the trailer is in motion combined with the stress at the bend caused the fitting to fail, so . . .

Lesson Number One: Don't install push-fitting PEX connectors where the pipe bends.

The other spot where it leaked was at an "L" that wrapped around my water heater. THe problem, I think, was that I didn't allow quite enought PEX pipe length to push all the way to the bottom of the fitting. Combined with movement in the trailer . . .

Lesson Two: Always allow enough PEX pipe length to fully insert the pipe into the push-fittings.

==========

I also found out that connecting my water pump and city water inlet directly to the PEX pipe can stress the pump and inlet fittings when the trailer is in motion and fatigue, then crack their housings, so I replaced my PEX-direct connection with a flexible braid pipe connection when I moved (and replaced) my city water connection to make way for a street-side hatch door. Using a flexible-braid pipe is also supposed to further dampen the water-hammer vibrations. I sure hope that's true.

Using flexible braid also allowed me to move my pump a bit further out of the way, tuck it completely under my pots-and-pans closet where there's a fair bit of otherwise-wasted space.

[BobB]

Looking good, Peter! I like that sweeping arc on the outflow side of the pump.

[Frederick L. Simson]

I replaced my PEX-direct connection with a flexible braid pipe connection when I moved (and replaced) my city water connection to make way for a street-side hatch door. Using a flexible-braid pipe is also supposed to further dampen the water-hammer vibrations. I sure hope that's true.

That should make things much quieter.