Ordering new Scamp with Larger 3-way Refrigerator

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Bill Nolen

There are many trailer options available and no doubt Brad will find a company he will be happy doing business with.



I'm not blind to some of the faults that the Scamp Co. may have. A few buyers of new Scamps have voiced some of these faults on this Forum.



However, after spending some time selling to the public (after retiring from the Government) I know that sometimes a salesman reaches a point in dealing with a would-be buyer, that the salesman starts to believe the person is a "tire-kicker" who's hobby is endlessly shopping for a car, RV, motorcycle, etc. knowing all the time that he is not going to buy the item.



I'm not suggesting that this is what Brad was doing. Only, that after several phone call rehashing the same subject, the Scamp salesman/owner may have thought this.



Scamp's factory no doubt orders major items in qualities that provide them with the lowest prices. If Scamp has purchased a dozen 2-way fridges, and has only them on hand, ordering a single 3-way fridge would most likely cost more, and be a disruption in their production line/schedule.



In the end, Scamp may have thought that the profit from Brad's purchase of a trailer, just wasn't worth the problems it entailed.



Just my 2-cents worth of thoughts!



Bill

Given the argument that Scamp purchases only 2 way refrigerators, if Brad were willing to pay for and have the 3-way delivered to Backus, Scamp would have no reason not to install it as any 2-ways in stock will eventually be used.

Originally Posted by Cathi

If a refrigerator will not fit through the door, they can't use it. I assure you that Escape does not either, as accommodating as they are. They also turn down requests, of course, among the many many that they receive. They do a lot but have not figured out how to get a refrigerator in that is wider than the door.

The OP has already stated the 3-way is the same size as the 2-way. Therefore, the door size argument is invalid. The truth is that Escspe will accommodate customer requests if possible. Scamp refuses to bend on anything.


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[cpaharley2008]

An old trick, put an open frozen container in the freezer and place a penny on the ice in the container. Check to see if the penny has dropped to determine thawing and refreezing has occurred.

[Cathi]

Originally Posted by CPW

The OP has already stated the 3-way is the same size as the 2-way. Therefore, the door size argument is invalid. The truth is that Escspe will accommodate customer requests if possible. Scamp refuses to bend on anything.


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See the OP's post #27.

Trying to get through the posts and get it all straight is sometimes difficult!

[redbarron55]

and They have to think and make changes to produce something not planned.
They would have to run electrical and also think.
If they have a backlog and are selling well into next year then it will make no difference to them.
I know that one change begets many more as I have had to make plenty of changed to accommodate the modifications I have made in my rebuild.
I think the OP will be happier with the Escape and should forget the Scamp.
Scamp runs two production lines one for the standard and one for the deluxe. Changes cost money and increase the chance of other errors.
Buy what you want or like I did build what you want.
I bought a 1986 16' Scamp (paid too much) and was able to salvage the shell and 1/2 of the frame.
Now I have what I want and I have invested a year and about $3500 more in it and it is one of a kind and built the way (I think) I want it.

[Glenn Baglo]

I don't recall the OP saying anything about buying an Escape.
He wasn't looking for advice. He wanted to vent.
So, we're just spinning our wheels here.

[Cathi]

Originally Posted by LyleB

How can you run the fridge on propane while traveling? I've heard others discuss this, but I've also understood that the refrigerator needs to be level, with little tolerance, in order to 1) run properly, and 2) not cause permanent damage to the refrigerator.

Seems to me, that travel, with a possible tongue low position or just general travel, particularly in hilly areas would preclude you from running the fridge on propane. What am I missing?

No problem with the refrigerator being level when towed. I did read something from a guy, believe one of the travel trailer magazine writers, saying that he stopped for a half hour on a slope to help an RV owner and it messed up his refrigerator.

[tractors1]

Originally Posted by Cathi

If a refrigerator will not fit through the door, they can't use it. I assure you that Escape does not either, as accommodating as they are. They also turn down requests, of course, among the many many that they receive. They do a lot but have not figured out how to get a refrigerator in that is wider than the door.

Not true. On some Casita trailers the fridge can only be replaced through the rear window opening.

[Cathi]

Originally Posted by tractors1

Not true. On some Casita trailers the fridge can only be replaced through the rear window opening.

Thank you, then I stand corrected --- but actually both Scamp and Escape have said that it needs to fit through the door.

I am pretty sure that Escape is not going to go through the window and apparently Scamp is not or can't either. I expect, however, that Casita made a mistake on that --- at least Escape or Scamp may consider it a mistake --- that Escape and Scamp do not want to make.

I am wondering if Casita knew they would have to go through the window.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Bradley

The Scamp salesman told me that I couldn't install the larger fridge later on because it wouldn't fit through the door, which is 22" wide according to him.
I don't know when they install the fridge when building the trailer.
I also don't know why they don't offer the 3-way option - it's the exactly the same size as the 2-way.
Doesn't really matter at this point - I'm not buying a Scamp.

Originally Posted by Cathi

See the OP's post #27.

Trying to get through the posts and get it all straight is sometimes difficult!

Do you mean post #27 above, where he states that the 3-way is the exact same size as the 2-way?

This would mean that if they could install the 2-way during construction, they could also install the 3-way at whatever point it is they put the unit in the trailer. Or if they can get the 2-way through the door (which they say they are willing to install) they could also get the 3-way through the door. If they put the refrigerator in prior to joining the two halves of the shell, door size wouldn't matter for either configuration, unless the unit had to be replaced, in which case you would be up the creek with either the 2-way or 3-way. Thus, either unit, which are identical in size could be installed during the build, as I previously stated, rendering the door size irrelevant at the time of installation.

I agree, getting through all the posts and getting it all straight is sometimes difficult. However, I don't think I have had any problem getting this one straight.


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[Cathi]

Originally Posted by Bradley

The Scamp salesman told me that I couldn't install the larger fridge later on because it wouldn't fit through the door, which is 22" wide according to him.

Carl, this is what I was referring to. Can't put in the larger one because can't fit it through the door. This is a remark that can also be responded to. You responded to something else; I was responding to this. Sorry about that! You took issue with my remark so just telling you where my remark came from.

[redbarron55]

On my Norcold I had to disassemble the refrigerator and take the door off to fit it through the door. Perhaps the reefer will not fit with the electrical (12 volt parts installed.)
If the 12 volt bita
s can be added it could be done after delivery, but you would have to run the wiring to it.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Cathi

Carl, this is what I was referring to. Can't put in the larger one because can't fit it through the door. This is a remark that can also be responded to. You responded to something else; I was responding to this. Sorry about that!

Cathi,
As I read it, the Scamp salesman said he (the OP) couldn't install a 3-way later on because it wouldn't fit through the door. I interpreted that as you can't upgrade it yourself after taking delivery because the door is too narrow. That would seem to imply that they put the refrigerator inside the fiberglass shell before joining the halves together. But if the 2-way is the same size as the 3-way, doesn't that also mean there is no way to replace the 2-way they install if it malfunctions and cannot be repaired?
I just don't understand why Scamp is unwilling to meet such a simple request that only requires a small variation (running a short length of wire to provide 12v to the refrigerant's 12v heating element).

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[Carol H]

Originally Posted by CPW

If they put the refrigerator in prior to joining the two halves of the shell, door size wouldn't matter for either configuration, unless the unit had to be replaced, in which case you would be up the creek with either the 2-way or 3-way.

Suspect they actually put the larger fridges into the trailer once most of the interior is completed and before the windows are installed. There are many trailer brands (fiberglass and stick builds) that require one of the larger windows to be removed in order to replace a fridge.

Why Scamp is not willing to customize the trailer to meet the buyers needs, in this case install a 3 way fridge is simple. They build a fairly economical trailer and each and every custom requests no matter how simple it seems to the buyer adds to the cost of the build - the extra time spent ordering and inventorying the item and the administration of keeping it all sorted out.

Anyone who has been here for awhile or owned a Scamp for more than a year or two will tell you Scamp is not a company that makes changes quickly or does custom order requests...... if your wanting the latest and greatest or to order something that is not Standard to them you need to look at a different trailer brand.

[Cathi]

Carl, the OP says they are the same size, however, any reason given by Scamp may or may not be the actual reason. I have seen someone say that Escape will not do something because of such and such. Then later someone gives a completely different reason. Sometimes someone makes up a reason that they guess is it. Other times there may be two people giving different reasons because they were told different reasons but again, someone may simply be saying what he or she thinks. The next thing it gets repeated and it is not the reason at all.

With regard to appliances such as a somewhat expensive item, the manufacturer has deals and those deals may not apply to anything not usually supplied. So perhaps it is not worth it to them to do. Escape does all kinds of things and they charged a lot less for some things than others in earlier years. Now they know the problems with many of those items so they either refuse or might charge a bundle to do something. We do not know Scamp's reason and probably never will.

The idea that Scamp would be installing a refrigerator before the two halves were joined does not happen with an Escape. Escape halves are joined before demolding as far as I know (and I am not aware that refrigerators are going in there!-- but maybe they are?? --- the bathrooms are going in) What Scamp does though, no telling. Maybe someone here knows.

Edit: Another big point is what item is being changed. We had items added to our build that are not options, as many do. We bought and supplied those items, either repacking and sending up to Escape or having them sent directly. Escape was not looking at the cost or doing any dealing or getting them there, only installing in place of what they usually install or adding an install for a price. An appliance that they usually install being replaced such as the refrigerator would require them to deal on it, to get the payment straight and to get it there when needed, and they are agreeing with you to do that. That is very different. The time and trouble and delivery is on them.

[C&G in FL]

Cathi, much of what you have said is true. However, Scamp does customize their trailers somewhat. What I mean is they do have options, such as a 2-way water heater which requires additional wiring for the 120vac element. Or A/C. Or A/C with heat strips. Or additional Fantastic Fans in some models. Or a microwave. They offer other options that if ordered must be tracked/controlled throughout the build. It is for that reason that if the OP were to provide an identically sized 3-way refrigerator to Backus, so that Scamp didn't have to deal with any logistics, it should not be an issue. The small amount of additional wiring would probably add 5 minutes to install, and 5 or 10 minutes to hook up and it would result in a satisfied customer. Perhaps if they stated their true reason for refusal (rather than all of us speculating what their reason might be), their refusal to accommodate the OP might be more palatable and/or understandable. Right now it comes across as "because I said so."


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[Mike Magee]

Originally Posted by Bill Nolen

Mike, I had the same problem with several LP fridges. i cured that problem by cutting a home furnace filter to fit in the outside vent opening. The filter allowed air to enter when traveling, but, stopped too much air blowing out the fridge's flame.

I did remove the filter when stopping for the night.

Bill

Yep, I did this for one summer of camping as well. But the fridge didn't cool as much with the lower air movement while the filter material was in place. Anyway, it would be so much nicer to have 12V available for those days when the wind is causing problems.

[Bradley]

If 4 phone calls are too much for a salesman from a customer who is about to spend close to $20K, then they (Scamp) needs to get a new salesman.
I also made it very clear I was willing to pay the additional cost of the 3-way.

It doesn't matter now - I'm not buying a Scamp. I have heard too many people, both here and on other sites, tell me that their quality has gone downhill. My dealings with them have been just plain weird.

[Darral T.]

Out of curiosity, would you tell us who your salesman is? Mine in 2010 was Jim Coffland-- kin to one of the original owners. I DO know they have turned the business over to the 3rd generation and that's scary for ANY business! (Micah- Kent Eveland's son)

One suggestion I would have for ANY potential new buyer and that would be to talk to their production manager - Dave. (sorry dont remember the last name)

I spoke with him several times. I wanted a light when I walk into my Scamp on the bulkhead (I have the front bath). He took the time while we were talking and walked inside of one he had going and told me he had the PERFECT place to put an addition 12v light and they did.

Not sure if you can get that kind of service or not. Salesmen are just that, salesmen.

Goodluck and let us know what you buy.... if I was looking now, I'd go "Escape"....mainly for the RIVETS issue...and here we go again...

Originally Posted by Bradley

If 4 phone calls are too much for a salesman from a customer who is about to spend close to $20K, then they (Scamp) needs to get a new salesman.
I also made it very clear I was willing to pay the additional cost of the 3-way.

It doesn't matter now - I'm not buying a Scamp. I have heard too many people, both here and on other sites, tell me that their quality has gone downhill. My dealings with them have been just plain weird.

[cpaharley2008]

Brad,
Have you considered an Escape? with the current exchange rate they can be had in the low 20's.

[GregandTeresa]

Darral, I thought the rivets was the main reason you bought your scamp