Propane detector keeps beeping!

[Darwin Maring]

gordon2: I installed a Key Type switch and turn it on when heading out and turn it off when camper is not in use. The reason for the Key is to insure it does not accidentally get turned off. The Key stays in the tow vehicle.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by J Ron

I want to also say DO NOT TURN OFF THE PROPANE DETECTOR AND GO BACK TO SLEEP. To assume your safe is to fail, also DO NOT INSTALL A SWITCH FOR ANY SAFETY DETECTOR. Install a main disconnect, whether switch or plug device. This will save your battery when stored. If you are stored at home install a battery maintainer and you'll allways be ready to go battery wise. I agree the battery gases are probably the problem but you don't need to have them in the trailer to breaathe either.

This is easy to say, especially when one is not privy to the specifics of a given situation, the diagnostic test that were done, the corrective actions that were taken, or the knowledge/experience of the person doing all of the above. In my case, I assumed nothing. But I fail to see any valid point, only opinion. It is my opinion that switching off a safety monitor is not at all dangerous if one understands what is happening and only wants to silence a false alarm. Having a switch to do so doesn't make a trailer less safe than a trailer from another manufacturer that doesn't even install a propane alarm, and while some people install their own, there are many who don't have the ability to do so or simply don't bother. Putting a switch on a safety alarm which actually has a pseudo switch (the battery could go dead) is no less safe than running a furnace or a ware heater that may malfunction and start a fire.

[steve dunham]

RV's are required by law to have a hard wired propane and CO detector and it cannot be controlled by a switch .
Most housing codes require both smoke and CO detectors .
They must be hard wired to the building's electrical system , interconnected and have battery backup. The detectors can not be on a separate circuit and must be connected to a circuit that feeds general lighting loads.
I'd rather live with a few nuisance alarms than die in a fire or be poisoned by carbon monoxide .
Others may differ .

[Raspy]

Steve,
The choice isn't really between "niusance"alarms or die by fire or poisoning. No need to try to over dramatize or claim that others may differ on this.

Its about how to be safe without the nuisance.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

RV's are required by law to have a hard wired propane and CO detector and it cannot be controlled by a switch .
Most housing codes require both smoke and CO detectors .
They must be hard wired to the building's electrical system , interconnected and have battery backup. The detectors can not be on a separate circuit and must be connected to a circuit that feeds general lighting loads.
I'd rather live with a few nuisance alarms than die in a fire or be poisoned by carbon monoxide .
Others may differ .

If that is the case, then please share with us the code that delineates those requirements and then explain to me how Scamp gets away with not installing a propane detector, and how some RV manufacturers install battery cut-off switches that essentially put these detectors on a switch. Perhaps you can post a link.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

RV's are required by law to have a hard wired propane and CO detector and it cannot be controlled by a switch ...

And that means that about 97% of the Scamps on the road are in violation of law, and many (if not most all) of other makes also.

Please provide a reference to this law so that I can get Evelands Inc. to pay for my after-market propane detector.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by gordon2

And that means that about 97% of the Scamps on the road are in violation of law, and many (if not most all) of other makes also.

Please provide a reference to this law so that I can get Evelands Inc. to pay for my after-market propane detector.

Look at the published RV standards . These requirements date back to 2005. My 2013 Casita complies .

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Look at the published RV standards . These requirements date back to 2005. My 2013 Casita complies .

Again, please post a link and explain why Scamp and other manufacturers are seemingly not in compliance, that is if you can.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Look at the published RV standards . These requirements date back to 2005. My 2013 Casita complies .

A standard is not a law. Please post a link to the law or drop it.

Originally Posted by steve dunham

RV's are required by law to have a hard wired propane and CO detector and it cannot be controlled by a switch .....

[steve dunham]

OK I 'll drop it . Not going to argue the point.
Whether you have propane or CO detectors is your choice and does not matter to me. If you feel they are unnecessary , then by all means don't use them.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

OK I 'll drop it . Not going to argue the point.
Whether you have propane or CO detectors is your choice and does not matter to me. If you feel they are unnecessary , then by all means don't use them.

If you want to argue that a propane alarm is a very good idea.. we are all on board with that.

If you want to say it is required by some law, then we need some convincing (or at least some evidence).


RIVA might require one for their certification.. I don't' know and I don't care so much about RIVA because whatever their requirements are, I still recommend that everyone who has propane in the their camper should also have a propane alarm (and a smoke alarm, and a carbon monoxide alarm).

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

OK I 'll drop it . Not going to argue the point.
Whether you have propane or CO detectors is your choice and does not matter to me. If you feel they are unnecessary , then by all means don't use them.

I will just note that I personally find a post that unequivocally states that hardwired alarms are "required" and cannot be switched is misleading. Opinions are valid, but unsubstantiated or false claims are not helpful. And from what I perceived, nobody was promoting non use of safety alarms. I surely wasn't, but I'll drop it too.

[Byron Kinnaman]

There's more than just understanding what a propane detector does. It's a good idea to understand what happens when a switch is turned off.
Here's what goes on. When the switch is turned off the contacts separate. At some point in the separation an arc is created. If the alarm going off because of a propane leak a loud noise will happen. Therefore with switch in the power line to the propane detector you're counting on your knowledge and you are smarter than the detector is detecting a propane leak.

If you put a switch outside the trailer you've reduced the risk.

[Raspy]

Byron,

A nuisance alarm is not a true indication that the sensor or the switch is really in an explosive environment. It's a warning that it has detected something. In CPW's experience, it was proven to be detecting battery hydrogen at very small levels.

The problem is that normally we assume there is a real problem when an alarm goes off and we have to deal with it in a safe and effective way, namely, shutting off the propane valve and airing out the trailer, not just flipping a switch in an explosive environment. A "normal" response would not be to simply shut off the switch and go back to sleep. But if the problem persists and there is no leak, then it's time to fix the issue that the detector is having.

Again, this is not about simply turning off the detector, it's about finding the real problem and actually being safe. Actually having faith in the detector.

[J Ron]

Check out this link, read it all the way through.
Replacing RV LP, CO, and Smoke Detectors

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

Therefore with switch in the power line to the propane detector you're counting on your knowledge and you are smarter than the detector is detecting a propane leak.

You're right Byron. When I know that the valves on the propane tank have been shut off and any residual propane that might have been in the lines were burned off by lighting the stove 24 hours earlier, and as a caution you have aired out the trailer in the interim, yes I am counting on my knowledge of everything I have done. Yes I believe under the circumstances I am smarter than the detector. I am even more confident after another 8 hours and the another 16 hours or so when the alarm again sounds in the known absence of propane that it is a nuisance alarm. And since you bring up the subject of switches, just what do you think the mute button built into the propane alarm is?
I am getting a bit tired of those who are not familiar with all the facts, particularly in my circumstance, jumping in with dire warnings. I suggest you call the folks who manufacture the Saf-T-Alert propane alarm and ask them, as I did, how many things can set off the alarm, leading you to believe there is a propane leak. Better yet, Google "my propane alarm keeps going off" and see how many hits you get. I am not advocating anyone ignore or simply switch off their propane alarm if it goes off. And I have no data so I won't make any ridiculous claims. But I can tell you there have been numerous times when my propane alarm has gone off and every one has been investigated and shown to be caused by something other than propane. These alarms are not perfect; they can be set off by a dog laying next to them.

[J Ron]

It is good to know that once it is proven there are no propane leaks there can never be a propane leak so all alarms are nuisance alarms and the detector can be switched off. Wait a minute, when all leaks are fixed why not throw the detector out since you will ignore it anyway.

[Borrego Dave]

Guess I've been lucky, the bean burritos didn't set it off .

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by J Ron

It is good to know that once it is proven there are no propane leaks there can never be a propane leak so all alarms are nuisance alarms and the detector can be switched off. Wait a minute, when all leaks are fixed why not throw the detector out since you will ignore it anyway.

I guess it's good to know that some people can read but fail or choose not to comprehend. I guess I must be missing something because I've read this entire thread and did not interpret where anyone suggested that all alarm events are false, simply nuisance alarms that should be ignored. I, in fact actually stated the exact oopposite. I sure wish my reading comprehension could be as all encompassing so I too might attain the rank of genius.

Originally Posted by Borrego Dave

Guess I've been lucky, the bean burritos didn't set it off .

Sorry, Dave. When I had a discussion with the manufacturer, I failed to ask about bean burritos, and the individual with whom I conversed failed to mention it. However, since the potential end result of eating bean burritos could be a "methane leak" and a propane detector is sensitive to methane, I guess you were very lucky. At the very least, you might have been awoken by a "nuisance" alarm; at the worst, blown yourself and others in the vicinity of your campsite to smithereens!

Hey, wait a minute. I'm beginning to comprehend. Since I don't consume bean burritos, I can throw my propane detector out since it won't be needed. Now that is good to know, no guessing necessary. Fortunately, while my reading comprehension may be lower than it should be, my ability to recognize, i.e., DETECT, unwarranted (and inane) sarcastic comments remains high.

[gordon2]

To get back to the original question (and away from questions about anyone’s ability to effectively and thoroughly express themselves through the written word, or the reading comprehension of others)…

It seems to me the most likely causes of the propane alarm beeping are, in order of likelihood:
1. Alarm is detecting gas discharge from nearby battery.
2. Alarm is at end of life and the beeping is the indication that it should be replaced.
3. Alarm is defective.
4. Any one of a number of much less likely causes.

If it were me, I would shut off the propane at the cylinder (tank), remove the battery from the trailer (safely securing the loose wires), close the windows and vents, and run the propane detector / alarm off shore power for a week or so. If it does not beep then you might conclude the battery is off gassing and setting off the alarm.

Next, disconnect shore power, reinstall the battery and run it down about 30%. Then hook up to shore power so it will start charging the battery. If the alarm now sounds, then it’s pretty certain that the battery off-gassing is the problem. In that case call Escape Trailer Industries, tell them what the problem is and what you have found by the above test, and ask them for a solution. They will likely suggest moving the propane detector / alarm to a different location in the camper.

I understand that at least one Escape owner switched over to AGM batteries and that might be a good solution also. Perhaps someone will describe this conversion (a different charging solution might be needed).