Robertson Head Screw (Square Drive Screw)

[Huck]

I wanted to remove a wood shelf in my Parkliner. The screws have a square screw drive which I had never come across before, so had to do some research.

The proper name is Robertson-head screws, but commonly called square screw or square drive screw. You can buy a screwdriver or bit at a big box store or most hardware stores. I bought 1 bit for about $2.50.

They come in different sizes, so I took a screw with me when I bought the bit. It was a #2 which seems to be the most commonly used size.

To get the screw out (to take with me) I used a Phillips head screwdriver to break it loose and then a pair of pliers to unscrew it. A better choice would be a straight screw driver that fits across the square, but I didn't have one that would fit.

I did read a post where at least 1 other brand of fbg's uses square screws. I believe they are used more often in Europe than US.

Just thought I would share and maybe save someone else some research time if you have never come across square screws before. In the PL they are used for securing the wood shelf which is above and to the right of the ac. If you look in the shower, you will also see some that secure the shelf through the shower wall. There are probably other places they are used, but I haven't looked anywhere else yet.

[redbarron55]

The square drive screws are very popular in Canada and those and Torx are becoming more popular in the US as they have less of a problem with "CamOut" than Phillips and straight slot screws. They also tend to stay on the driver better when handling to drive.
The Torx was developed for the automotive industry since they can be handled better by automatic feeders and don't cam out when driven or removed.
I have used both in my rebuild of my 1986 Scamp. I found square drive in the cabinets along with phillips, but of course no Torx.

[Jack L]

I retired from the tool and equipment business and have lots of hand tools. I have not counted but Ill guess I have at least 25 square drive screwdrivers and bits. The square drive fasteners are great. Much easier to work with than philips or straight blade. Ever see Reed & Prince fastener ?? It looks like a Philips but it isn't . Try finding a bit or driver for Reed & Prince fasteners, then be ready for a shock when you find the price.

Square drive screws are great and much easier to use if you have the proper tools. Once you get accustomed to them I think you will like them.

Square drive fasteners come in size 1,2 and 3. My Bigfoot has size 1 and 2.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

The square drive screws are very popular in Canada and those and Torx are becoming more popular in the US as they have less of a problem with "CamOut" than Phillips and straight slot screws. .

The Robertson screws which are as suggested very common and popular in Canada has an interesting history and some of that history some might suggest is why its use has not been embraced in US.

From the Website "The Perfect Screw? A concise history of the Robertson Head"

"So the question remains: Why has the Robertson not managed to secure a stronger foothold throughout the world? Why is its popularity limited to Canada and a small number of specialty industries? When the Robertson was first introduced it enjoyed a great deal of popularity. Each Model T manufactured in Canada was held together by about 700 Robertsons"

"Using Robertsons reduced the production time on each vehicle so significantly that Henry Ford wanted to use them on his American assembly lines as well. Ford, however, didn’t want to just buy the screws, he wanted to buy the rights as well, and when Roberson refused to sell, Ford turned to Philips, and it appears America (and the world) has never looked back. "

[Bob Miller]

I don't know what other make RV's every one is working on, but my experience with many brands is that the #2 square drive is the weapon of choice for almost all American RV builders, especially in the sticky world.


If you go into many RV suppliers and as for "RV drive screws" that's what they will sell you. As I recall Scamps are held together with them, look under the benches.


Mfg like them because you can put on on the tip of a power driver and drive it almost in any angle/position without a starting punch/hole or it falling off the driver or slipping/burring out when it bottoms.

[David Tilston]

If I have a choice, I choose Robertson screws.

[Jay H]

This thread made me laugh out loud. As a proud Canadian, the Robertson is my fastener of choice, in fact I have replaced all of the screws and a lot of the rivets in my Boler with #3 (or a red Robbie). be aware though that a true Robertson has a tapering of the bit whereas an American Square bit does not. I may be biased but I have always felt the tapered bit grabbed and held better. Long live the Robertson!

[honda03842]

My first trailer, a Sunline, used Robertson screws and I've used them ever since.

[Bob Miller]

Now I am seeing two different names; Robertson and Square Drive.
Are they the same or, if different, different enough to make a difference?

[rbryan]

A very common fastener in Canada. Don't buy an Escape if you don't like Robertson screws-- ours is full of them. One of the first things I bought for the trailer was a good set of Robertson screwdrivers. Most of the screws are #2, but there are several #3 as well.

The American "square" drive is just a clone of the Robertson, produced when the Robertson patent ran out. Sometimes they have a slight taper and sometimes not. Robertsons have the slight taper.

Sent from my iPhone using Fiberglass RV

[Jon Vermilye]

I've told this story before, but it is worth repeating - We had a Canadian tour come through our theatre many years back, and needed to "adjust" some hardware. We were all complaining about the weird screw heads until we watched one of their techs place a 3" sheet rock screw on the end of a driver, then put it into a piece of wood at arms length away.

After that we talked our local hardware supplier into stocking Robertson screws for us. We had to buy them by the 25 lb box, but it was worth it. We were using & praising them for years before they became generally available...

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

Now I am seeing two different names; Robertson and Square Drive.
Are they the same or, if different, different enough to make a difference?

Technically the same I suppose but up here in the North its just called a Robertson Screw Driver.

Until today I had actually never heard anyone call it a square drive.

[Jack L]

I've been using square drive screws for over 30 years and prefer using them whenever I can. I have a box of screws I picked up at a garage sale that can be driven with a square drive tool or a Philips. Here in the Pacific northwest they are fairly common. My Bigfoot has some #1 square drive screws on the cabinet hinges.


Robertson patented the design and when his patents ran out and other manufacturers started making them, they couldn't call them "Robertson" because of trademark or copyright laws so the name square drive was used.


Taper or not, they are great. With most fasteners coming from China today, I suspect true Robertson brand fasteners are rare. I wish I could get accustomed to the metric system as easily as I adapted to the square d
rive fastener.

[Dennis mn]

My 1978 Pop-Up was assembled with square drive screws, so I've dealt with them for a long time.

My current source for quality hardware including Robertson Screws is Lee-Valley Hardware, a Canadian company.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Jack L

.

Robertson patented the design and when his patents ran out and other manufacturers started making them, they couldn't call them "Robertson" because of trademark or copyright laws so the name square drive was used.

Taper or not, they are great. With most fasteners coming from China today, I suspect true Robertson brand fasteners are rare. I wish I could get accustomed to the metric system as easily as I adapted to the square d
rive fastener.

LOL well the good news is the original Robertson company is still in biz and they still have the name trade marked which is why I guess we still call them Robertson's.

Metric is one of those things I had friends visiting from the US last summer and they were going on about not knowing what the heck the speed limit was & always wondering if they were speeding. I told them to look at/use the little numbers on the inside circle of their speedometer. They burst out laughing and said they always wondered what those numbers where!

[Jack L]

Originally Posted by Carol H

LOL well the good news is the original Robertson company is still in biz and they still have the name trade marked which is why I guess we still call them Robertson's.

Metric is one of those things I had friends visiting from the US last summer and they were going on about not knowing what the heck the speed limit was & always wondering if they were speeding. I told them to look at/use the little numbers on the inside circle of their speedometer. They burst out laughing and said they always wondered what those numbers where!

Yes but if you call a Chinese square drive screw a "Robertson" you would be infringing on Robertson's trademark and could go to jail. Do the jails in Canada have metric bars ?

[rbryan]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Metric is one of those things I had friends visiting from the US last summer and they were going on about not knowing what the heck the speed limit was & always wondering if they were speeding. I told them to look at/use the little numbers on the inside circle of their speedometer. They burst out laughing and said they always wondered what those numbers where!

I dunno Carol. On the one hand the story is funny, but on the other it makes me realize there are people who don't know how to read a speedometer -- and they're driving!

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Jack L

Yes but if you call a Chinese square drive screw a "Robertson" you would be infringing on Robertson's trademark and could go to jail. Do the jails in Canada have metric bars ?

LOL we sure do but my point simple was that if you where standing in the average Canadian's workshop and asked them for a "square drive" or a "square drive screw" petty sure you going to get a blank look from most folks If you were to ask for a Robertson screw driver or Robertson screw most of us have drawers full of those

BTW you can buy the Robertson or square screws at pretty well any hardware store in Canada including Home Depot. Rows and rows of them. Love Lee Valley and that its being supported by those outside the country but suspect you will find way better deals elsewhere on screws.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by rbryan

I dunno Carol. On the one hand the story is funny, but on the other it makes me realize there are people who don't know how to read a speedometer -- and they're driving!

Apparently they felt the only important numbers they really need to know the meaning of on their speedometer were the MPG's!

[Borrego Dave]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Apparently they felt the only important numbers they really need to know the meaning of on their speedometer were the MPG's!

Good one Carol. Two things, when I was stationed overseas we were told to multiply the first number on the speed limit sign by 6 to get you close. Never had a problem and was never stopped. The car I was driving didn't have anything but mph...a '57 Chevy. If I was asked for a square drive I would know what it is. But if asked by the makers name....I would have had the blank look too . I learned something today.