|
02-10-2008, 11:34 AM
|
#1
|
Senior Member
Name: Parker
Trailer: Escape 19
Ohio
Posts: 373
|
I'm installing new electric brakes on our 2004 Scamp 13. Luckily the axles had flanges for the backing plates, so the mechanical installation was simple. The trailer already has a seven-conductor cable with the appropirate connector to the TV. It appears that the blue brake wire must have been cut off right after the point of entry in the front of the trailer. I certainly haven't found it threaded through the trailer with the other wires. Right now, the cable entry is covered with rat fur, so I'll have to do a little rat surgery to find out. Luckily, it's under the front seat compartment. Okay, let's assume I find my blue wire there. Does anyone know how the factory routes this wire to the brakes? The simple thing would be to drill through the floor right there and run the wire back along the frame to one brake and tee over to the other. Or did Scamp run it back past the sink with the other wires and then down through the floor? If no-one raises an issue, I'll probably drill through the front floor area below the point of entry. Now for the ground wire. There is a factory ground lug connected to the frame just below the converter area. It would make sense to me to tie the brake ground line in here, rather than go back up inside the trailer somewhere to tie into some other ground wire. Finally, do they normally run these wires through plastic conduit, or just tie them off to frame members?
Thanks for any and all help!
Parker
|
|
|
02-10-2008, 12:04 PM
|
#2
|
Senior Member
Trailer: 2002 19 ft Scamp 19 ft 5th Wheel
Posts: 3,640
|
On our 5R once it came through the floor they stapled it to the underside of the floor. Not a suffocated install at all.
You could just splice a new wire to the one you find up front, go through the floor there and run it underneath and staple it to the underside of the floor.
Just recently I ran a 2nd wire from the front of the egg, underneath and secured it to the floor underneath and I put the split corrugated wire loom over the wire.
Reason: Just was not getting enough brake power to the brakes and the extra 10 gauge, multiple stranded, (THWN-THHN-NTW, 19 Strands, Size 10, Gasoline Resistant with a really hard as nails covering) wire that is normally installed inside conduit for building installation is far superior to the wire normally sold for vehicles.
|
|
|
02-10-2008, 12:31 PM
|
#3
|
Senior Member
Name: Parker
Trailer: Escape 19
Ohio
Posts: 373
|
Quote:
On our 5R once it came through the floor they stapled it to the underside of the floor. Not a suffocated install at all.
10 gauge, multiple stranded, (THWN-THHN-NTW, 19 Strands, Size 10, Gasoline Resistant with a really hard as nails covering) wire that is normally installed inside conduit for building installation is far superior to the wire normally sold for vehicles.
|
Darwin,
Thanks! That sounds simple enough. I hadn't thought about staples into the floor. Interesting comment about the wire, as I thought I read on here once that someone thought automotive wire was better. I'm familiar with the wire you're using, which I also use for ham radio antennas. Sunlight eventually kills the clear sheath on it, but I've never had a failure with it. If you don't mind, where did you pick up the ground connection?
Parker
|
|
|
02-10-2008, 12:54 PM
|
#4
|
Senior Member
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 7,056
|
Quote:
Darwin,
Thanks! That sounds simple enough. I hadn't thought about staples into the floor. Interesting comment about the wire, as I thought I read on here once that someone thought automotive wire was better. I'm familiar with the wire you're using, which I also use for ham radio antennas. Sunlight eventually kills the clear sheath on it, but I've never had a failure with it. If you don't mind, where did you pick up the ground connection?
Parker
|
SAE automotive wire is made to be abrasive resistant and fire resistant. The insulation is a teflon type. SAE calls it cross-link.
While running wires I suggest that you also run the negative (white) wire back to the brakes rather than relying on the frame for the negative side. Not all trailers have the negative connected to the frame.
I would be a bit concerned about wire that was designed to go inside conduit inside a building. Your brake wiring is outside in the elements.
__________________
Byron & Anne enjoying the everyday Saturday thing.
|
|
|
02-10-2008, 01:07 PM
|
#5
|
Senior Member
Name: Parker
Trailer: Escape 19
Ohio
Posts: 373
|
Quote:
SAE automotive wire is made to be abrasive resistant and fire resistant. The insulation is a teflon type. SAE calls it cross-link.
While running wires I suggest that you also run the negative (white) wire back to the brakes rather than relying on the frame for the negative side. Not all trailers have the negative connected to the frame.
I would be a bit concerned about wire that was designed to go inside conduit inside a building. Your brake wiring is outside in the elements.
|
Byron,
That's the discussion I was remembering about the choice of wire.
Re the ground connection, we're probably saying the same thing, in that the ground lug on the frame under the converter is where the Scamp ground wire connects, so if I hook in there, I'll also be picking up the white ground wire from above. Of course without tracing it back, I don't really know how many other connections there are in this line. Picking it up right at the trailer entrance would ensure a better connection into the cable set. Might as well do that since I'm working in this area anyway.
Thanks!
Parker
|
|
|
02-10-2008, 01:17 PM
|
#6
|
Senior Member
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 3,072
|
When I added brakes to my 91Scamp13, I had to fish the blue through the umbilical cable sheath (not fun...). After connecting to the break-away switch, I ran it down and inside the structural member that runs fore-and-aft under the door, then across the axle to the other wheel.
I think, but am not sure, that Scamp probably runs the wire INSIDE the trailer with the other wires and down the driver's side, out to that wheel and then across the axle. I intend to redo the wiring like that because I don't like the wire being loose inside the metal tube.
Regarding the #10 not seeming to carry the load, I'd look for a bad connection. Here's what Tekonsha says about wire size in the brake control installation:
6. CAUTION Use of proper gauge wire when
installing the brake control is CRITICAL;
smaller gauge wire may result in less than
efficient braking. Minimum wire gauges
are as follows:
• 1-2 axle applications – 14 GA.
• 3-4 axle applications – 12 GA.
I fully agree with using white return wires rather than relying on trailer frame ground.
|
|
|
02-10-2008, 01:23 PM
|
#7
|
Senior Member
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 7,056
|
Quote:
Byron,
That's the discussion I was remembering about the choice of wire.
Re the ground connection, we're probably saying the same thing, in that the ground lug on the frame under the converter is where the Scamp ground wire connects, so if I hook in there, I'll also be picking up the white ground wire from above. Of course without tracing it back, I don't really know how many other connections there are in this line. Picking it up right at the trailer entrance would ensure a better connection into the cable set. Might as well do that since I'm working in this area anyway.
Thanks!
Parker
|
There are two "ground" wires. One green coming from the shore power connector (that one really is ground). The other the white wire, which is the negative battery power, which many people insist on calling "ground". Chances are that they are tied together inside the converter. I'm not sure I would rely on that connection to provide the necessary current to brakes. A separate wire would insure current carry capabilities.
__________________
Byron & Anne enjoying the everyday Saturday thing.
|
|
|
02-10-2008, 02:55 PM
|
#8
|
Senior Member
Name: Parker
Trailer: Escape 19
Ohio
Posts: 373
|
Wow, this has been a great help! The temperature has dropped to 8 degrees F, and the latest official wind gust shows 51 mph. If it had been warmer, I might have been in the garage, but this way, I'll be a little smarter before diving in. I also appreciate Pete's comment about the breakaway switch. I plan to install one, so I'll take care of that at the same time. I plan to use the house battery. I assume I'll connect into the fused side of the power lead off the battery. Hadn't thought about that until now....do I want that breakaway switch counting on a 20 amp fuse to be functional? Maybe I should tie straight into the battery with an automatically resetting circuit breaker. Anyway, thanks all.
Parker
|
|
|
02-10-2008, 03:34 PM
|
#9
|
Senior Member
Trailer: 2002 19 ft Scamp 19 ft 5th Wheel
Posts: 3,640
|
Parker, Look up at the top of the page. I sent U a private email.
Darwin
|
|
|
02-10-2008, 05:23 PM
|
#10
|
Senior Member
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 3,072
|
Quote:
There are two "ground" wires. One green coming from the shore power connector (that one really is ground). The other the white wire, which is the negative battery power, which many people insist on calling "ground". Chances are that they are tied together inside the converter. I'm not sure I would rely on that connection to provide the necessary current to brakes. A separate wire would insure current carry capabilities.
|
IF your converter doesn't exist or IF it's the converter application where it is plugged into a 120VAC outlet (not hardwired to shore power cable) AND IF it's not plugged in, there may be no connection between white wire and trailer frame. Much better in long run to run white wire to brakes.
|
|
|
02-10-2008, 06:51 PM
|
#11
|
Senior Member
Name: Parker
Trailer: Escape 19
Ohio
Posts: 373
|
Quote:
IF your converter doesn't exist or IF it's the converter application where it is plugged into a 120VAC outlet (not hardwired to shore power cable) AND IF it's not plugged in, there may be no connection between white wire and trailer frame. Much better in long run to run white wire to brakes.
|
Pete,
I plan to do just as you say. Just to clarify, my Scamp has a ground lug attached to the underside of the frame, which has a bare copper, #8 or so, ground wire to the converter, and a white DC negative lead. Still, I'm going to run the trailer brake white lead to splice in ahead of all this where the seven-conductor cable comes through the front wall.
Parker
|
|
|
02-12-2008, 10:56 AM
|
#12
|
Senior Member
Trailer: Helite
Posts: 164
|
The poster that quoted the heavy duty ac electrical wire is correct. It is superior to the auto type of wire that you can purchase at the local parts store.
|
|
|
02-12-2008, 12:04 PM
|
#13
|
Senior Member
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 7,056
|
Let me further clearify what I mean by automotive wire. The insulation needs to be marked with SAE J1128. Then either GXL or SXL. SXL has thicker insulation. If it doesn't have SAE J1128 printed on the insulation it might not meet SAE specifications.
This stuff is designed to withstand all the stuff that can be thrown at vehicle wiring, including all sorts of chemicals, fire, abrasion, salt and sand. All automobiles and trucks have wire with this type of insulation in them. I doesn't make sense to me to use anything else.
__________________
Byron & Anne enjoying the everyday Saturday thing.
|
|
|
02-12-2008, 03:42 PM
|
#14
|
Senior Member
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 3,072
|
Quote:
I plan to do just as you say. Just to clarify, my Scamp has a ground lug attached to the underside of the frame, which has a bare copper, #8 or so, ground wire to the converter, and a white DC negative lead. Still, I'm going to run the trailer brake white lead to splice in ahead of all this where the seven-conductor cable comes through the front wall.
|
What I did, rather than have a splice in that area, was to just run a dedicated white wire from the negative terminal on the battery over to the blue wire and then both back to the wheels.
However, I was moving the trailer between the time the battery was stolen and it was replaced and the brakes didn't work -- I had positive battery connected, through the controller, but there was no return.... I won't make that mistake again.
Byron, where does one go to get the good automotive wire -- One thing about using stranded home wiring is that it is easily obtainable from Home Despot, etc.
|
|
|
02-12-2008, 05:33 PM
|
#15
|
Senior Member
Trailer: 1981 Trillium 5500
Posts: 1,158
|
home wiring usually does not have as many strands, and corrodes faster.
Crimp connections on 7 or 13 strand wire will usually come loose in no time flat. It is generally harder to solder as well.A good 20 or 30 strand automotive wire sized to the current will outlast anything you can do too it, except actually cutting the wire.
THHN is oil and gas resistant, but I have found that it gets brittle if exposed to the elements
joe
|
|
|
02-12-2008, 06:42 PM
|
#16
|
Senior Member
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 7,056
|
Quote:
What I did, rather than have a splice in that area, was to just run a dedicated white wire from the negative terminal on the battery over to the blue wire and then both back to the wheels.
However, I was moving the trailer between the time the battery was stolen and it was replaced and the brakes didn't work -- I had positive battery connected, through the controller, but there was no return.... I won't make that mistake again.
Byron, where does one go to get the good automotive wire -- One thing about using stranded home wiring is that it is easily obtainable from Home Despot, etc.
|
That's a good question. I did a little searching and found this place.. I would recommend SXL for under trailer wiring such as brake wires. TXL would work for inside wiring where there's no wire movement likely.
__________________
Byron & Anne enjoying the everyday Saturday thing.
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
» Upcoming Events |
No events scheduled in the next 465 days.
|
|