Scamp Snap Cap Washers? - Fiberglass RV


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Old 02-22-2016, 06:18 PM   #1
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Scamp Snap Cap Washers?

I'm ready to replace some of the rivets that hold the major fiberglass structures to the Scamps fiberglass shell, like the kitchen cabinets.

However, this morning as I was looking at the snap cap washers, that I had ordered months ago from Scamp co., I discovered that the hole in the center of the washers was less than 1/8 th of an inch! Much too small for the size rivets were originally installed on the 1978 scamp 13. Or the bolts that I might use in lieu of rivets.

I call the parts dept of scamp and was told that all of the snap cap washers had holes that size, and the rivets should be forced thru the small hole for a good seal.

Perhaps someone who has replaced the rivets, washers, and snap caps on their trailer can give me a few pointers on how to do this with the least amount of trouble?

All comments will be appreciated!

Bill
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Old 02-22-2016, 08:37 PM   #2
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The Scamp advice is exactly what I was going to say after reading the second paragraph. To make it easier you can use an 8d or 10d nail to make the hole just big enough. Don't rely on the washers to seal anything alone. Apply a dab of sealer to the hole and to he rivet.
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Old 02-22-2016, 08:52 PM   #3
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I agree with Paul, I just pushed the Rivet thru the cap. I did not use any sealant and have not had a leak. (Knock wood)
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Old 02-23-2016, 04:26 AM   #4
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What I (and some others) have done is to put a iittle dab of butyl tape underneath the plastic washer (bottom edge that will sit flush up against the trailer wall). After riveting, the butyl will spread out nicely, and you can scrape off the excess with a wooden toothpick. Works great as a seal, and can be easily removed years later if desired (stays flexible).
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Old 02-23-2016, 09:24 AM   #5
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I had a friend who ordered some snapcaps and there were two different sizes from Scamp. We split the order/costs/shipping.
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Old 02-23-2016, 10:25 AM   #6
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Thanks!

Thanks Paul, Dennis, Wendy Lee, and Darrel for your comments.

I guess I shouldn't tell anyone, but I tried to drill the small hole slightly larger with a drill press! Ha! Those little washers can sure spin fast and burn a person's fingers...if a person is foolish enough to try and hold one with one's finger's when drilling!

Thanks again....I'll follow your suggestions...

Bill
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Old 02-23-2016, 10:30 AM   #7
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Or you can migrate away from rivets and the snap caps altogether, since they fall apart in a couple of years out in the sun, and just replace them with stainless steel 1/4" - 20 oval Phillips head machine screws and raised decorative s/s escutcheon ring washers. Use nylock stainless steel acorn nuts inside to secure them. For every one of these you replace with a s/s bolt, (and no snap caps anymore,) you'll never have to replace it again. Just something to think about.
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Old 02-23-2016, 10:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darral T. View Post
I had a friend who ordered some snapcaps and there were two different sizes from Scamp. We split the order/costs/shipping.
Darral, I wonder why the Scamp Parts Guy told me otherwise?

Maybe he didn't understand my question?

Bill
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Old 02-23-2016, 10:43 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Casita Greg View Post
Or you can migrate away from rivets and the snap caps altogether, since they fall apart in a couple of years out in the sun, and just replace them with stainless steel 1/4" - 20 oval Phillips head machine screws and raised decorative s/s escutcheon ring washers. Use nylock stainless steel acorn nuts inside to secure them. For every one of these you replace with a s/s bolt, (and no snap caps anymore,) you'll never have to replace it again. Just something to think about.
Thanks Greg, I have actually been pondering about doing just that.

However, the actual size of the bolts or machine screws were/are still a question mark in my thinking, so your comments are very timely!

Did you use the escutcheon ring washers on both the outside and inside?

Bill
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Old 02-23-2016, 10:48 AM   #10
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It is a tight fit but does work, I have done 15-20 (rivets) so far with little drama. I did put a dab of caulk (acrylic latex) in the trailer shell's hole before installing the rivet/washer combo. I then put another dab over the rivet head before snapping on the cap. Maybe if the next owner/operator waits too long (like I have) to replace rivets/washers/caps the caulk will save the day.

It is kind of obvious but just to mention it I did do every other rivet and then come back so stuff did not move too much. I did say without drama above but should mention trying to drill out the one $%^&*( hard $%%^^ steel rivet some jack$$%^ put in along the way. Thou Shalt Not use steel rivets in thy Scamp, at least not any somebody might have to drill out one day.
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Old 02-23-2016, 10:51 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Bill Nolen View Post
Darral, I wonder why the Scamp Parts Guy told me otherwise?

Maybe he didn't understand my question?

Bill
Scamp recently discontinued the smaller size washers and caps and now only uses the large. At least that is what they told me last year when I tried to get some small washers from them.
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Old 02-23-2016, 10:54 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Bill Nolen View Post
Thanks Greg, I have actually been pondering about doing just that.

However, the actual size of the bolts or machine screws were/are still a question mark in my thinking, so your comments are very timely!

Did you use the escutcheon ring washers on both the outside and inside?

Bill
I'll try for three posts in row. I mulled over the bolt idea pretty hard even figuring out the size issue and tracking them down. In the end I decided not to reinvent the wheel and just went back with rivets, washers and caps. If I saw a real advantage to bolts I would have done it, and still will on a couple of places that are inaccessible to rivet tool (under the awning).


There are some very nice large head stainless bolts, bonded rubber stainless washers, and stainless nylock nuts. They would seem to work very well at providing a secure weatherproof connection while allowing a little give so as not to break the fiberglass as seems to be a concern amongst the "do not bolt crowd".
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Old 02-23-2016, 11:18 AM   #13
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#10 pan head screws fit into the snap cap base and the shaft is about the same size as the 3/16 rivets. I use flat washers and nylock nuts inside because you just want to snug things down and not compress everything together by using regular nuts and lock washers.
I perfer to use rivets but there are a few high stress locations where the rivets don't hold up.
I usually use butyl tape or 5200 under the cap base which ever is handy.
Eddie
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Old 02-23-2016, 11:35 AM   #14
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I bought aluminum washers where the od of the washer just fit inside the exterior nylon cup and the center hole was the size of the rivet. (used the same size washer on the interior. It helped pull the
plastic cup washer down tight to the fiberglass and increased the bearing surface . I also used a dab of Lexel caulk to insure a good seal.
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Old 02-23-2016, 06:09 PM   #15
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Thanks very much Tim, Eddie, and Steven!

Lots of great information to think about, for sure!

What I really need is for one or two of you guys to come over to my home...and take over...so i wouldn't have to decide what to do!

No? Well, OK, thanks for the information. I do value the information Ihat I have received here!

Bill
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Old 02-24-2016, 07:11 AM   #16
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Thanks very much Tim, Eddie, and Steven!

Lots of great information to think about, for sure!

What I really need is for one or two of you guys to come over to my home...and take over...so i wouldn't have to decide what to do!

No? Well, OK, thanks for the information. I do value the information Ihat I have received here!

Bill
I can't make it out there, but I tell you what would work. You tow it on down here to Sunny Florida and we will do it in my driveway. I would get you started and then turn it over to you and my associate (daughter). At 12 she is already an accomplished "inside woman" of a rivet team. I have hookups and you can make a vay-cay out of it. Gas is cheap, what you waiting for?
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Old 02-24-2016, 08:10 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Bill Nolen View Post
Thanks Greg, I have actually been pondering about doing just that.

However, the actual size of the bolts or machine screws were/are still a question mark in my thinking, so your comments are very timely!

Did you use the escutcheon ring washers on both the outside and inside?

Bill
Just on the outside, under the oval head machine screw. If you go this route, get some of the 1/4"-20 screws in 1" and some in 1.25" lengths. They'll cover about 99% of all the locations on the trailer.
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Old 02-24-2016, 08:25 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Timber Wolf View Post
I'll try for three posts in row. I mulled over the bolt idea pretty hard even figuring out the size issue and tracking them down. In the end I decided not to reinvent the wheel and just went back with rivets, washers and caps. If I saw a real advantage to bolts I would have done it, and still will on a couple of places that are inaccessible to rivet tool (under the awning).


There are some very nice large head stainless bolts, bonded rubber stainless washers, and stainless nylock nuts. They would seem to work very well at providing a secure weatherproof connection while allowing a little give so as not to break the fiberglass as seems to be a concern amongst the "do not bolt crowd".
One of those real advantages is that you'll never ever again replace a deteriorated snap cap. Every rivet you replace with a machine screw and washer, (sans snap caps,) will be good to go forever after. And, it will also provide a much stronger bond between joined components. The myth going around about rivets breaking before there is damage to the fiberglass is all just a bunch of crap. There are two reasons that trailer manufacturers use rivets instead of stainless bolts: 1.) Expediency of installation, and 2.) reduced cost per fastener. The sales reps of all the fiberglass trailer manufacturers try to BS people into believing that they use rivets to prevent damage to the fiberglass. Well, if that were true, then why has the boat building industry, using s/s screws and nuts for over 60 years, not used rivets instead? It's because screws are stronger than rivets, and you can't tell me that any fiberglass trailer will ever see the kind of shock force and pounding abuse that a fiberglass boat sees. Total BS argument.
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Old 02-24-2016, 11:36 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Timber Wolf View Post
I can't make it out there, but I tell you what would work. You tow it on down here to Sunny Florida and we will do it in my driveway. I would get you started and then turn it over to you and my associate (daughter). At 12 she is already an accomplished "inside woman" of a rivet team. I have hookups and you can make a vay-cay out of it. Gas is cheap, what you waiting for?
Tim, that's a wonderful offer! The last time I was invited to visit a friend in Florida all my poor relatives...and i mean REALLY POOR Relatives followed me down to have a vacation in Florida!

With all my cousins, with their children, and of course their hound dogs...it made quite a crowd around my friends dinner table. I guess I should say "formal friend" because I am no longer able to contact him or his wife!

Oh yes...you forgot to provide me with your address.....

Seriously...it sounds like you have a daughter that is a great helper, and a young lady you can be proud of!

Bill
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Old 02-24-2016, 11:44 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Casita Greg View Post
Just on the outside, under the oval head machine screw. If you go this route, get some of the 1/4"-20 screws in 1" and some in 1.25" lengths. They'll cover about 99% of all the locations on the trailer.
Thanks Greg. After reading you message I checked my machine screw supply, and while I have a lot of 1/4"-20 machine screws, none are SS, and in those sizes.

However, I do have a great ACE Hardware close to my home, so i will pay them a visit this afternoon.

Bill
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