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Old 01-16-2018, 02:29 PM   #21
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Name: John
Trailer: Black Series HQ19
Smith Valley, Nevada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k0wtz View Post
I have pulled the trailer quite a few miles been up some good hills been on the interstate I have not seen any problems. saying this I do not drive over 55 and I watch quite a bit ahead and do a lot of anticipating driving.
Have you ever had to make a quick stop on a curve? How do you see around corners as you look "quite a bit ahead"? Have you ever had a trailer begin to sway uncontrollably?

It's never good advice to suggest to someone else that they don't need brakes. Especially, when your only evidence is that you have not had a wreck.
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Old 01-16-2018, 02:31 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by TomK View Post
Interesting. That was a useful chart Floyd. Have you seen one that shows which states require the safety break-away switches? I wouldn't travel without brakes, but wonder how useful the break-away switches are? As far as I know; Scamp doesn't even offer them as an option. It would seem if many states required them; they would come standard when you ordered brakes?

To the OP- Another advantage of having trailer brakes is being able to recover from high speed wobbles due to swaying. You can apply the brakes at the controller on or below the dash. It will usually bring the trailer back under control.

Tom
I once read that math started in the cave as
"1,2,3,and many"
Your trailer doesn't require a breakaway switch.

Question is...do you want one?
If so they are only about $10 and I would be glad to bring one and install it when we see ya at Sebring. Maybe even as part of a tech talk!
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Old 01-16-2018, 02:54 PM   #23
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Trailer: Escape 21, behind an '02 F250 7.3 diesel tug
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Originally Posted by mary and bob View Post
The flange doesn't mount near the the rubber, it is at the axle spindle. By welding a little at a time and using compressed air or water to keep the heat from traveling up to the rubber, I see no problem welding on a flange.
also, wire welding doesn't get the piece nearly as hot overall as older styles of welding. its practically like using a hot glue gun that extrudes steel
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Old 01-16-2018, 03:03 PM   #24
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true story. we had a older Starcraft tent trailer, didn't weigh 2000 lbs, we were towing it with an E150 van (5.4L V8, yada yada). van outweighed trailer by 3:1.... I knew the trailer brakes were completely worn out and needed service, but never paid much attention to that as the tug was so much beefier, never had an issue stopping etc.

so flash forward a couple years... 2012, we were coming home from the 5 night Golden State Star Party in far northeastern California. Mid summer. I'd been up almost the whole last night as the sky was really really good. Didn't get nearly enough sleep before it was time to pack up and do the 7 hour drive home. Wife *insisted* we go through Lassen National Park, which takes many hours of windy roads, ok dear, we did. by the time we got to I5 in Red Bluff, I was nodding off, couldn't keep my eyes focused, and it was 105F in the shade. I asked my wife to drive for a few hours so I could cat nap in the passenger seat. strict instructions to go 55, stay behind the trucks, if they are slower than 55, just back off and stay in the right lane. 30 minutes later, I wake up to her panic braking with a flat tire, she's in the left lane passing trucks like they are standing still, oh great. she gets the rig under control, pulls into the wide gravel center divider, then overbrakes, causing the trailer to jackknife and push us back out into the traffic where miraculously we DONT get tboned by cars, BUT she clips the side of a semi truck. totaled the trailer and the van, and broke my foot (which was barefoot and up on the dashboard next to the a/c vent while I was snoozing.
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Old 01-16-2018, 03:04 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
its practically like using a hot glue gun that extrudes steel
Well, not exactly. But it's fun to exaggerate.

Maybe they could just stick it on with bubblegum.
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Old 01-16-2018, 03:09 PM   #26
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Name: John
Trailer: Black Series HQ19
Smith Valley, Nevada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
true story. we had a older Starcraft tent trailer, didn't weigh 2000 lbs, we were towing it with an E150 van (5.4L V8, yada yada). van outweighed trailer by 3:1.... I knew the trailer brakes were completely worn out and needed service, but never paid much attention to that as the tug was so much beefier, never had an issue stopping etc.

so flash forward a couple years... 2012, we were coming home from the 5 night Golden State Star Party in far northeastern California. Mid summer. I'd been up almost the whole last night as the sky was really really good. Didn't get nearly enough sleep before it was time to pack up and do the 7 hour drive home. Wife *insisted* we go through Lassen National Park, which takes many hours of windy roads, ok dear, we did. by the time we got to I5 in Red Bluff, I was nodding off, couldn't keep my eyes focused, and it was 105F in the shade. I asked my wife to drive for a few hours so I could cat nap in the passenger seat. strict instructions to go 55, stay behind the trucks, if they are slower than 55, just back off and stay in the right lane. 30 minutes later, I wake up to her panic braking with a flat tire, she's in the left lane passing trucks like they are standing still, oh great. she gets the rig under control, pulls into the wide gravel center divider, then overbrakes, causing the trailer to jackknife and push us back out into the traffic where miraculously we DONT get tboned by cars, BUT she clips the side of a semi truck. totaled the trailer and the van, and broke my foot (which was barefoot and up on the dashboard next to the a/c vent while I was snoozing.

John,
So, what's the problem? She got it stopped without trailer brakes! YIKES!!!!
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Old 01-16-2018, 06:10 PM   #27
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Trailer: Scamp 16
Michigan
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Originally Posted by floyd View Post
I once read that math started in the cave as
"1,2,3,and many"
Your trailer doesn't require a breakaway switch.

Question is...do you want one?
If so they are only about $10 and I would be glad to bring one and install it when we see ya at Sebring. Maybe even as part of a tech talk!
I almost bought one Floyd. I started "researching" them in eTrailer.com a few months ago, but before I picked one, something distracted me (senior moment).
I do remember deciding to get one that utilizes the trailer battery. One less battery to keep charged was my thinking. Pick me out one you'd trust, and I'll settle up with you in a couple weeks. Thanks!

Tom
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Old 01-17-2018, 08:14 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomK View Post
I almost bought one Floyd. I started "researching" them in eTrailer.com a few months ago, but before I picked one, something distracted me (senior moment).
I do remember deciding to get one that utilizes the trailer battery. One less battery to keep charged was my thinking. Pick me out one you'd trust, and I'll settle up with you in a couple weeks. Thanks!

Tom
Got one comin'!
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Old 01-18-2018, 05:50 PM   #29
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Trailer: Was A-Liner now 13f Scamp
Missouri
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learned interesting stuff today about brakes on trailers

took the wife to the mall today since I cant walk far I scoped out u-hauls website. very very interesting stuff there! here goes.

their 6x12 trailer will accept 2500lbs the trailer has to weigh at least 1500lbs. so now we are talking a payload of 4,000lb that a chunk. this is way more than a scamper 13f by the way!

guess what no brakes required I can hear it now! the also suggest transmission use for braking by the way!

another note when the trailer starts whipping no braking please. I know some will contest this but u- hasn't been in business very long probably what over 60 years I know of!

so with my 13f scamper that weighs 1000lbs I am sticking with my philospy of no brakes needed. move up to a 16f maybe but I have pulled a 20f heavy I/o boat up and down some pretty good hills no brakes needed.

you are all invited to go to u-hauls website and study up on trailer brakes

bob

ok
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Old 01-18-2018, 06:34 PM   #30
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Name: Gordon
Trailer: 2015 Scamp (16 Std Layout 4) with '15 Toyota Sienna LE Tug
North Carolina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k0wtz View Post
...

so with my 13f scamper that weighs 1000lbs I am sticking with my philospy of no brakes needed. move up to a 16f maybe but I have pulled a 20f heavy I/o boat up and down some pretty good hills no brakes needed....
Well!... Bob has not had anyone unexpectedly pull out in front of him so close that he could not stop in time.. so we are safe with no brakes. Yea, OK.

Towing a trailer with brakes you will have a shorter stopping distance than one without, and the brakes will increase your odds of preventing a traffic accident. Without them you are taking a bigger gamble every time you pull that trailer down the road, and our highways are enough of a gamble already without reducing your odds even further.

Heck, if I was 75 years old I might not be so worried but there is always the other guy to think about.

And as other have mentioned, trailer brakes also save wear on the tug's brakes, are a cheap addition, are often required by law, etc.

Very light trailers such as Waverunner (PWC) trailers when towed by a large truck are a different matter to some extent, but the typical fiberglass camper and tug combo is much safer when the trailer has brakes.
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Old 01-18-2018, 06:51 PM   #31
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Name: bob
Trailer: Was A-Liner now 13f Scamp
Missouri
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Gordon why am I not surpised by your snide comments. why don't you give it a rest?


bob
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Old 01-18-2018, 06:54 PM   #32
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Name: bob
Trailer: Was A-Liner now 13f Scamp
Missouri
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had this happen

I had this happen with a small trailer one time with a big roll of carpet I never touched the brakes. I can tell you it is scary I had it happen with a motorcycle put me in a fence. I never understood why except I was on gravel.

I had heard this and I heard right on how to handle whiplash!


each to his own and style of camping and running your trailer. I cannot and wont dispute a company that has been in business or way longer than I am alive.

bob
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Old 01-18-2018, 08:01 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by k0wtz View Post
took the wife to the mall today since I cant walk far I scoped out u-hauls website. very very interesting stuff there! here goes.

their 6x12 trailer will accept 2500lbs the trailer has to weigh at least 1500lbs. so now we are talking a payload of 4,000lb that a chunk. this is way more than a scamper 13f by the way!

guess what no brakes required I can hear it now! the also suggest transmission use for braking by the way!

another note when the trailer starts whipping no braking please. I know some will contest this but u- hasn't been in business very long probably what over 60 years I know of!

so with my 13f scamper that weighs 1000lbs I am sticking with my philospy of no brakes needed. move up to a 16f maybe but I have pulled a 20f heavy I/o boat up and down some pretty good hills no brakes needed.

you are all invited to go to u-hauls website and study up on trailer brakes

bob

ok

Per their website
The enclosed cargo trailer is equipped with hydraulic surge brakes.
The 6X12 utility trailer also has hydraulic surge brakes.

The 6x12 utility trailer has a maximum loading capacity of just over 2,600 lbs, with more than 70 square feet of floor space. Equipped with an automatic braking system, tandem axles and a spring suspension, our utility trailers provide a soft ride for hauling your cargo.
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Old 01-18-2018, 08:03 PM   #34
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Many U-Haul trailers have surge brakes.
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Old 01-18-2018, 08:32 PM   #35
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I thought they had surge brakes... thanks for doing the research.
The 5X9 utility trailer does not need brakes as it falls under the 3000 Lb requirement in all states except Nevada and Idaho.

  • Empty weight: 1,240 lbs.
  • Max load: 1,650 lbs.
  • Maximum Gross Weight (trailer plus load): 2,890 lbs.
Idaho

Trailers with an unladen weight of 1,500 lbs. must have an independent braking system, and a breakaway system capable of applying the brakes in the event of a separation from the towing vehicle is required.

Nevada

Every trailer, semitrailer, or pole trailer at least 1,500 lbs. and manufactured after July 1, 1975 must be equipped with service brakes on all wheels.

I assume it's legal in those two also .
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Old 01-18-2018, 09:29 PM   #36
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Trailer: Was A-Liner now 13f Scamp
Missouri
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I have rented the 6x12 it came with no brakes and I certainly didn't need them. in addition of what I posted I think not sure now but U-Haul posts a 55mph speed on their trailers most trailer tires are rated 60mph. with that speed safety is insured for everyone including other drivers and no I don't tailgate so that argument doesn't fly either for braking. our state says 5 car lengths I run probably 15 to 2o with our trailer!


bob
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Old 01-18-2018, 10:01 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by k0wtz View Post

another note when the trailer starts whipping no braking please. I know some will contest this but u- hasn't been in business very long probably what over 60 years I know of!
When Uhaul says don't apply the TV brakes if the trailer is "whipping" it's because there are no brakes on their trailers, just tow vehicle brakes. In that situation applying the TV brakes makes the whipping worse.

If Uhaul only rented trailers to people with seven pin plugs and brake controllers, their business would drop off to a much smaller number. Plus their trailers would cost a lot more to maintain. It's more profitable for them to simply rent to anyone and tell people not to apply the brakes if there is a problem.

If a trailer starts to whip, and you have tailer brakes, applying the trailer brakes solves the problem. So does accelerating, but that is very dangerous. With surge brakes you cannot apply the trailer brakes independently of the TV.

Please use your own judgement with your own trailer, but be careful about giving others advice that might lead to a crash. It's bad advice to tell others that they don't need brakes. It's like insurance. You don't need it until you do, and then you really do. Would you recommend that people don't get insurance on their vehicles, just because you haven't been in a wreck? Or, if someone follows your advice and they have an accident because of it, are you willing to share the responsibility?

We all have to decide on our own equipment, but when giving others advice, it's best not to recommend against important safety equipment that could save a life.

When someone asks, in an open forum, if they need brakes, it probably means they have limited experience and haven't yet solidified their opinion by having real world experience or a close call. They may not realize the various reasons why it's important and they may be looking for ways to save money. Or looking for support in not doing what they probably should do. We have no way of knowing all the details. There is much more involved than simply the weight of the trailer or wether or not someone else has ever had a problem.
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Old 01-18-2018, 10:36 PM   #38
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Name: bob
Trailer: Was A-Liner now 13f Scamp
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children

I post my own opinions about things and I post them if they upset you and are intolerable to you I don't know what to tell you!

in my driving life I am 75 you know I have never seen a uhaul in an accident i have driven several million miles. if my trailer was a 16 which is a 13f i would consider brakes.

i think high speeds over 60 would cause more problems that driving say 55 or 60.


maintaining proper speeds and spacing behind other vehicles will go a long way in preventing all the things mentioned with a smaller trailer.

now you guys that want drive the 70 and over with brakes go for it!! as for my advice a person can take it or leave it really doesn't matter to me.

it always seems to be the same people who object to my opinion whatever they are!!

bob
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Old 01-18-2018, 10:38 PM   #39
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surge brakes on uhaul trailers are there to be pulled behind a uhaul truck


bob
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Old 01-18-2018, 10:40 PM   #40
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I suggest we all just cease responding to this thread.
We are getting nowhere with bob and I think others have sufficient information to draw the correct conclusion.
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