Tiger Moth towing MPG

[rbryan]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

I am amazed you can even tow a 16 ft Scamp with a Forester at all.
20 -21 MPG'S is totally astonishing to the point of being unbelievable.

It'll tow 2400 lbs, so it will tow a Scamp 16. That part isn't hard to believe, and I'm sure lots of folks tow with a Forester. But the 21 mpgs while doing it is pretty incredible, considering the compactness of the tow and the frontal area.

Maybe in Kansas with favorable winds, but I simply don't believe those numbers in mountains/hilly terrain. With an EPA estimate of 27 highway/20 city for the stick shift, I would expect the towing mileage to drop by a third - to about 18 mpg at the most. Still really really good, but not 21.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by rbryan

It'll tow 2400 lbs, so it will tow a Scamp 16. That part isn't hard to believe. But the 21 mpgs while doing it is pretty incredible, considering the compactness of the tow and the frontal area.

Maybe in Kansas with favorable winds, but I simply don't believe those numbers in mountains/hilly terrain.

My 1999 Scamp 16 SD weighed between 2600 and 2700 lbs when loaded for travel . I towed my Scamp with a vehicle rated to tow 3500 lbs and it neither towed well nor got fuel mileage anywhere near 21 MPG.
When I went to school 2700 lbs was larger than 2400 lbs thus my disbelief
The only time I got fuel mileage approaching 20 mpgs was going down the side of a mountain with a 40 mph tail wind
Overlooking towing safety in the search for unobtainable fuel mileage is not a path I wish to follow.

[stevebaz]

Its not just the box front, its also the longer tongue putting the trailer further back out of the cars slipstream. The higher road heigth allowing more air and drag under the trailer. All little changes that increase drag causing more rolling resistance. You may want to check tire pressures on your car. The added weight on the hitch may be squatting the tires causing resistance there too.

A squatted tire is really prone to mileage loss with the more efficent cars. We had a small efficient car that would go 400 miles on a loaded car with a full tank of gas. But one trip we made it only went 250 miles on a full tank. After checking out why the mileade was so poor, result was tires 3 lbs lower than we normally ran them. Added air and mileage was right back where it was supposed to be. High effeciency cars are really sensetive to the parameters they work within. Simple changes can effect them much more than their less efficient brothers.

[Infogypsy]

Originally Posted by rbryan

It'll tow 2400 lbs, so it will tow a Scamp 16. That part isn't hard to believe, and I'm sure lots of folks tow with a Forester. But the 21 mpgs while doing it is pretty incredible, considering the compactness of the tow and the frontal area.

Maybe in Kansas with favorable winds, but I simply don't believe those numbers in mountains/hilly terrain. With an EPA estimate of 27 highway/20 city for the stick shift, I would expect the towing mileage to drop by a third - to about 18 mpg at the most. Still really really good, but not 21.

I’m done here. Thanks for all the advice and believe whatever you like. I had an amazing Five years with my Scamp and now I’m moving* on in my fourth act to a smaller, easy to tow tiger Moth that suits my current goals fine. If you want to learn about my five years with the Scamp, check out my four books on adventures with a lone woman and her trailer on amazon under my pen name, Lynn Romaine. Thanks again for all the info on aerodynamics. I’m settling into having 5 mile drop in Mpg with three Tiger Moth now that I know it’s most likely aerodynamic. Safe travels.

[rbryan]

Originally Posted by Infogypsy

I’m done here. Thanks for all the advice and believe whatever you like. I had an amazing Five years with my Scamp and now I’m moving* on in my fourth act to a smaller, easy to tow tiger Moth that suits my current goals fine. If you want to learn about my five years with the Scamp, check out my four books on adventures with a lone woman and her trailer on amazon under my pen name, Lynn Romaine. Thanks again for all the info on aerodynamics. I’m settling into having 5 mile drop in Mpg with three Tiger Moth now that I know it’s most likely aerodynamic. Safe travels.

My comment was not meant to call you dishonest or cause offense. I just dont think folks can expect 21 mpg with that combo - that's all.

[Mike Magee]

I think she was driving 50 mph only, so I can believe it. And other light footed drivers have done about as well... such as Norm and his Hondas.

[rbryan]

Originally Posted by Mike Magee

I think she was driving 50 mph only, so I can believe it. And other light footed drivers have done about as well... such as Norm and his Hondas.

Wow, silly me. I did not catch that detail. It would make a huge difference.

[charlsara]

Originally Posted by Mike Magee

I think she was driving 50 mph only, so I can believe it. And other light footed drivers have done about as well... such as Norm and his Hondas.

I can believe it. I just can’t believe she hasn’t been a victim of road rage.

[Mike Magee]

The 50 mph info didn't come out until post #14; easy to miss.

The Tiger Moth is an interesting design. It's minimalist yet it contains many modern electronic hookups. The interior is about 5' wide by 4'7" high, which I think makes it compare in size to a teardrop, more than anything else I can think of offhand. However, I see that it has 12" ground clearance for offroad, which puts the roof height at 82", and that's tall enough to create some wind resistance behind a Subie (I think the pre-fire 13' Scamps weren't much taller).

Infogypsy, don't be a stranger! Feel free to hang out with us anytime. We're like family in this forum.... and sometimes, ya know, family will bicker and criticize... but family still loves ya.

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by Mike Magee

Infogypsy, don't be a stranger! Feel free to hang out with us anytime. We're like family in this forum.... and sometimes, ya know, family will bicker and criticize... but family still loves ya.

Yep.

[Infogypsy]

Thanks. I’ve yet to take my Tiger Moth out for a first time overnight which I won’t do til Warm weather -above 45 at night. I think I am resigned that I won’t get the great tow mileage I got with my 2005 Scamp 16 over the past 100,000 miles but I’ll be happy with the simpler set up without mechanical issues Of moving parts. I will be selling my Scamp once I can dewinterize it come spring. Thanks for reassurance it’s an aeronautical issue. I don’t recall what I or someone said about 50 mph but I’m assuming I’ll need to stay below that to get the best mileage I can.

[Civilguy]

Judi,

The wind resistance basically goes up four times when the speed doubles. The difference in wind resistance between 60 and 50 miles per hour would be perhaps 25%, using an estimated drag coefficient of 0.6.

While wind resistance is not mileage, and there are some other factors involved, this should give you a rough idea of how much more "work" the car would be doing when pulling the trailer at 60 as compared to 50.

Here's the perfect combination to virtually eliminate this problem:

[Infogypsy]

Thanks! Love the picture. Car looks a bit like Bucky Fullers design. I’ll just have to learn to keep my speed low. What’s my hurry anyway? I’m just wandering about enjoying the beautiful earth.

[Raspy]

Mike,

How is it that you always have the right picture to match your point?

[Glenn Baglo]

If you examine that picture, you will see why the Lil'Snoozy is facing the wrong direction when it comes to drag.

[David Tilston]

Glenn, you gotta let that go.

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by David Tilston

Glenn, you gotta let that go.

Can't. Facing a headwind.

[Mike Magee]

Originally Posted by Civilguy

Judi,

The wind resistance basically goes up four times when the speed doubles. The difference in wind resistance between 60 and 50 miles per hour would be perhaps 25%, using an estimated drag coefficient of 0.6.

While wind resistance is not mileage, and there are some other factors involved, this should give you a rough idea of how much more "work" the car would be doing when pulling the trailer at 60 as compared to 50.

Here's the perfect combination to virtually eliminate this problem:

Isn't that what folks near Roswell mistook for a UFO?