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02-19-2011, 08:04 AM
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#21
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Senior Member
Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
Florida
Posts: 7,517
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From the Honda CRV Casita Guy.
The towing issue is very interesting. For years I've looked for reasons behind the rules of thumb for towing ability. It's obvious that manufacturers are not consistant from country to country with the same vdehicle. It's also obvious that the US idea that 10-15% hitch weight is required does not seem to apply in Europe.
We've been towing extensively for 4 years now with our Honda CRV, towing a 15.5' Sunline, a 16' Casita and now a 16' Scamp. Tongue weights have varied from 7% to 15%; tailer weights from 2300 to 3000#s. None of the trailers have swayed. We do not use a WD hitch; we did use a sway bar on the Sunline because we had one, feeling it might be good for emergencies. Since we still have one, we will probably add it to the Scamp.
We love our CRV. It gets great mileage towing (22-23) and not towing (28-30). It has a 5 speed manual transmission. Mostly we are in 5th while towing. Of course we down shift in hilly situations and have driven 1000 miles of dirt roads with severe grades.
As well the Honda has been incredibly reliable. We've replaced tires and changed oil. The only thing thats failed is the air conditioner at 60,000 miles, replaced by Honda at no charge.
We're retired and don't drive long distances in a day (but have made 4 loops of the USA and been every where in Canada). We don't drive fast never over 60.
We have placed a mark on our temperature gauge to indicate normal temperature. The Honda has never moved off this position; simply does not overheat while towing no matter the hill or temperature.
Obviously we love our Honda. It has worked well for 135,000 miles. Our goal is to reach 250,000 miles with the Honda, another 5-6 years; we'll probably having to replace the clutch one of these days.
I must admit we considered a Casita 17 because I need the inside height but decided the tongue weight on the 17 is too high for the Honda. As a result we choose the Scamp 16, a taller lighter rig than the Casita 17.
We also like the Honda because it has on demand 4 wheel drive, not the best 4 wheel drive solution but it's saved us a couple of times on Airozona back roads. Any time a front wheel slips it kicks in. It's definitely not a 'jeep like' rock climber but for sub-normal driving or snow it works.
We have moved to smaller rigs because we recognize that gas prices are heading up rapidly, doubling in the last two years. Since it's now almost impossible to drill in the USA and a growing car market now exists outside the USA (Chinese bought more cars than Americans last year) gas prices have no where to go but up and rapidly. We want to RV for another 10 years so we need good mileage and reliability and to us that spells Honda and Scamp.
Next year we plan a loop of the USA and Canada and that will give us a good measure of Scamp/Honda mpg.
Hope this helps people find their personal Tow Vehicle solution,
Norm
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02-19-2011, 08:16 AM
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#22
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Senior Member
Name: Borden and Carole
Trailer: 1978 Earlton Ontario boler
Ontario
Posts: 1,506
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I have pulled 1000 lbs behind an Echo sedan with Class I hitch and it was fine. They sell you a hitch for an Echo then tell you that they do not recommend towing with an Echo at the dealere? Trailer brakes are wise though.
__________________
Our postage stamp in heaven.
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02-19-2011, 09:30 AM
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#23
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Senior Member
Trailer: Trillium 5500 1980
Posts: 121
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Trillium 5500 (1980) towed with a 2004 Honda Pilot.
My previously owned Trillium 1300 (1974 with brakes and WD) towed first with a Honda CRV (2000). This was NOT safe... After a few bad and scaring experiences I upgraded to the Pilot.
I've read all those opinions on European standards and different towing limits. I WANTED to believe all this but experience proved that this was literacy as far as I am concerned. I know that I will die someday but I will do my best to die from something else than a trailer accident.
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02-19-2011, 11:58 AM
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#24
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Senior Member
Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
Florida
Posts: 7,517
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Normand,
I'm curious to know what kind of mishaps you had towing with your CRV. It's important to learn from the experience of others.
The only time I ever had an issue is when I placed a generator on the rear bumper, nothing serious but it swayed a little. I moved the generator inside and problem gone.
Hoping to learn from you,
Norm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Normand Choiniere
Trillium 5500 (1980) towed with a 2004 Honda Pilot.
My previously owned Trillium 1300 (1974 with brakes and WD) towed first with a Honda CRV (2000). This was NOT safe... After a few bad and scaring experiences I upgraded to the Pilot.
I've read all those opinions on European standards and different towing limits. I WANTED to believe all this but experience proved that this was literacy as far as I am concerned. I know that I will die someday but I will do my best to die from something else than a trailer accident.
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02-19-2011, 12:23 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
Name: Borden and Carole
Trailer: 1978 Earlton Ontario boler
Ontario
Posts: 1,506
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I do not tow at speeds over 80 kmh / 50 mph and the Echo we had prior had a sway bar plate on the draw bar.
(milage was great and trailer small infact Echo is not so good in wind but was actually better towing?)
Noticed that many pull at 60! mph Wow. Again it is subjective to size of trailer and vehicle.
Now have bigger trailer and larger car, WD system with sway bar and more. We still will not win an uphill race but not really in that much of a hurry. Dealer said do not use over drive on hills
We have to be safe first and too that end we know our own rigs.
__________________
Our postage stamp in heaven.
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02-19-2011, 12:29 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Name: Greg
Trailer: 72 Boler American
Indiana
Posts: 1,557
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I know that I will catch some flak here, but after 23 yrs in a semi I think I have it figured out, I tow at or near the posted limit anything less you become a road hazard waiting to be run over.
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02-19-2011, 12:40 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Name: Borden and Carole
Trailer: 1978 Earlton Ontario boler
Ontario
Posts: 1,506
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Greg H you are so right thank goodness not all road are 100 / 60 even; with a larger tow unit would not like to drive faster than doing now.
Honda03842 love the milage
__________________
Our postage stamp in heaven.
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02-19-2011, 01:12 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Trailer: Fiber Stream 16 ft
Posts: 382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg H
I know that I will catch some flak here, but after 23 yrs in a semi I think I have it figured out, I tow at or near the posted limit anything less you become a road hazard waiting to be run over.
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Here, Here !!!!! Being a rolling speed bump is dangerous for all concerned.
That being said, Fiber Stream 16 towed by a Dodge Dakota 4x4 (V6) or a Jeep Liberty.
For pictures please see my page in the Registry.
__________________
Tom - '79 Fiber Stream
There is no such thing as an all black cat.
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02-19-2011, 01:23 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
Florida
Posts: 7,517
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We rarely tow at 60 mph, usually between 55 and 60, reserving the higher speeds for the rare Interstate.
Actually we avoid Interstates, taking the more deserted excellent roads all over the country, like 17 thru central FL and US 17 from VA to GA or Rt 2 across the Northwest. The Interstates are fine for getting from pt A to pt B but that's about it. In general the wonders are not on the interstates.
To me an Interstate is just a place of higher stress.
If we're on any road and traffic builds behind us I follow the Oregon coast road rule and pull over at the first opportunity and let them pass.
Norm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borden
Greg H you are so right thank goodness not all road are 100 / 60 even; with a larger tow unit would not like to drive faster than doing now.
Honda03842 love the milage
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02-19-2011, 01:57 PM
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#30
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Commercial Member
Name: Ian
Trailer: 1974 Boler 1300 - 2014 Escape 19'
Alberta
Posts: 1,380
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My tow vehicle is a 1989 Volvo 740 with a "slightly" modifed 5.0L V8 (350+HP).
I tour Western Canada and the US car shows and my "new" 1974 Boler 1300 will be perfect. The Boler will eventually match the detail in my car, but that will come with time.
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02-19-2011, 03:04 PM
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#31
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1988 Perris Pacer ('Bean') / 2004 Element
Posts: 1,109
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Ian===you're looking good under the hood! Sweet! (Wish my house looked that clean!)
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02-19-2011, 05:43 PM
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#32
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Senior Member
Trailer: Boler American (#3104)
Posts: 554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volvord
My tow vehicle is a 1989 Volvo 740 with a "slightly" modifed 5.0L V8 (350+HP).
I tour Western Canada and the US car shows and my "new" 1974 Boler 1300 will be perfect. The Boler will eventually match the detail in my car, but that will come with time. ...
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Very nice job. Nice headlight conversion too! Any pics of the Volvo and Boler together?
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02-19-2011, 08:10 PM
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#33
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Senior Member
Trailer: U-Haul VT16
Posts: 987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg H
I know that I will catch some flak here, but after 23 yrs in a semi I think I have it figured out, I tow at or near the posted limit anything less you become a road hazard waiting to be run over.
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Unfortunately, here in California, the posted limit for semi trucks and autos pulling trailers is just 55mph, which forces us to be a speed bump most of the time. Most of the traffic merging is going faster, and every now and then a giant fifth wheel toy hauler flies by in the fast lane going 75 or so. Keeps things interesting!
Regards,
Matt
__________________
Planning our next Escape!
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02-19-2011, 09:35 PM
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#34
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Senior Member
Name: Jesse
Trailer: 1984 Scamp 13'
Maryland
Posts: 815
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I tow the '84 Scamp 13 with a 2009 Scion (Toyota) xD.
Sorry, I don't have a better pic right now. I just bought the Scamp about six months ago and most of the pics I have were early on, before I beautified it and before I had the new suspension on my car (it came with the lowered "Sport" suspension).
Here's a pic I took in December when I installed the awning:
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02-19-2011, 10:04 PM
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#35
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1988 Perris Pacer ('Bean') / 2004 Element
Posts: 1,109
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Jesse----great pics! Very nice awning!
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02-19-2011, 10:15 PM
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#36
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Commercial Member
Name: Ian
Trailer: 1974 Boler 1300 - 2014 Escape 19'
Alberta
Posts: 1,380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vickie B.
Ian===you're looking good under the hood! Sweet! (Wish my house looked that clean!)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CliveAlive
Very nice job. Nice headlight conversion too! Any pics of the Volvo and Boler together?
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Thank you for the comments. I just bought the Boler so no pictures of them together yet (today it is -20C with snow) the car is in storage for the winter ... but come spring I am looking forward to many camping trips. Good eye on the headlights, not many people notice, they are from a Mercedes-Benz W123 model
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02-19-2011, 10:24 PM
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#37
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Senior Member
Name: Greg
Trailer: 72 Boler American
Indiana
Posts: 1,557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt in SV
Unfortunately, here in California, the posted limit for semi trucks and autos pulling trailers is just 55mph, which forces us to be a speed bump most of the time. Most of the traffic merging is going faster, and every now and then a giant fifth wheel toy hauler flies by in the fast lane going 75 or so. Keeps things interesting!
Regards,
Matt
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I was in Ca, last week for the first time since 1988, I always said I wasn't going back. It really was not that bad but now I know why they always had hundred car pileups on the show " chips".
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02-20-2011, 07:11 AM
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#38
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Senior Member
Trailer: 13 ft Scamp Deluxe 2007 and 40' Allegro Bus
Posts: 219
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Here's our 13' deluxe with the Terrain V6
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02-21-2011, 09:12 AM
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#39
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1981 Trillium 5500
Posts: 1,158
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I pulled Our Trillium 5500 for many thousands of miles with a 1995 Lumina Mini-van.
It worked fantastic until last year when I noticed that I was borderline on power and temperature. Keep in mind, as of last year I had 315,000 Km or 196875 miles on my Lumina, all original driveline. I added a transmission cooler, even though it had a factory one.
My tow set-up includes an anti-sway bar (one sided) and a prodigy brake controller. I blew a tire two years ago, and only noticed the Bang when the tire blew, no sway or tugging whatsoever.
I quit buying air shocks ($400.00/pr.) and installed heavy duty overloader shocks with coil over springs. (rougher ride when not towing).
I generally tow at the posted limit ( it keeps me out of the race pack). I have been cut-off, forced to the shoulder, and hit by debris and animals, but have not had anything cause me to lose control.
I average 30 MPG (Canadian) when not towing and about 12-15 when towing.
this has been a steady decrease from the 18-19 I first got when the van was new.
I attribute it to age and mileage.
However , all good things come to an end, and as much as I love my Lumina, I will be retiring it in the spring, and replacing it with a new to me 2006 Envoy Denali V8, which is currently sitting in my driveway awaiting the disappearance of snow and salt from our highways. I got a fantastic deal on this very low mileage Envoy, and i am hoping it works out well.
I will post more on the Envoy when it is being used.
Joe
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02-24-2011, 05:02 PM
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#40
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Senior Member
Trailer: Trillium 5500 1980
Posts: 121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honda03842
Normand,
I'm curious to know what kind of mishaps you had towing with your CRV. It's important to learn from the experience of others.
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The section (a big hole under the carpet) where the spare was originally supposed to be on a 2000 CRV (basically a Civic "frame" I think) started do "unwelder" under the stress of the Trillium (that I evaluated to really be near 1500 lbs - weight on the tongue was about 200 lbs). I also had a hitch problem (a class III brand new hitch).
All the back section of the CRV had to be reinforced and plates were weldered on the floor and long bolts (up to the floor) installed to properly retain the hitch. Nothing could be done to reinforce the CRV's shocks who also are not appropriate. The rear section of a CRV is simply too weak to safely tow (in the real world) a 1500 lbs trailer. Those SUV do not have a proper and real frame. They are a unibody construction.
I had everything repaired but enough is enough. I stopped having problems when I bought the Pilot. I also got a weight distribution system that I recommend to everyone who tow with marginal towing vehicle.
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