Trailer Brakes

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After reading Pete D's post about surge breaks on the other thread, I started madly typing...then decided, rather than trash that thread...I would start over here. I really hope to have some input on this. Here was my initial response:

Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh :feet I just had another one of those head whacker moments that I am becoming so famous for. :bh There's another name for 'serge' brakes and for the life of me I cannot think what it is. It's the same dohicky in the seats that lock up the seat belt when you stop too fast.

Anyway having pulled a UHaul or two in my day, I am familiar with this kind of brake, but it wasn't until just this moment when Pete explained it like he did, that I realized that is probably what my '89 has on it. All the pieces are now starting to fall into place. Duhhhhhhhh. Now I have a question. What harm/good am I doing with my break controller that is installed in my tow vehicle since I am now convinced that my trailer had surge brakes installed? It seems to work fine, but I am wondering what, if anything I should do about the other one that is mounted on the trailer tongue. It's obviously a retro fit where they cut into the wiring harness. Should I leave it as is, or should I remove the tongue mounted brake and reconnect the wires. If I do this, will the brakes work properly with my brake controller?

Many, many questions. Thanks Pete for finally solving a long-time puzzle for me.

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Suz,

Can you take a close-up picture of the one on your trailer?

And post it of course.

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Suz;

I think what you are describing is a break-a-way switch.

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Morgan....I will try and take a picture tomorrow.

Ron M....Could be, but don't think it is configured as I would think a break-a-way should be. It is hard wired into the trailer pigtail wiring and is permanently mounted halfway between the body and the hitch on the tongue.

Tomorrow, when the dark is gone ;) , I'll try and post a picture. I know that it is a Tekonsha which are brake controllers.

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Umm, Suz, that is prolly the breakaway switch for your electric trailer brakes. Has a steel wire with loop on end attached to it that you should attach to the truck so if the truck and trailer are separated, the pin on the trailer end of the wire pulls out of the box and the electric brakes come on. The electric wires coming out of the box go to the battery and the brakes and are hardwired. Often is only mounted to tongue with one bolt so it can swing and let the pin line up with the cord so the pin pulls easily when needed.

A surge brake coupler will bend like a knee or one part slips inside another, either action compressing a hydraulic cylinder which in turn puts pressure on the wheel brake pads.

Tekonsha makes breakaway switches and brake controllers.

Pete and Rats

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I think the word that I've been struggling to come up with is inertia. Are surge brakes ever called inertia brakes?

I really do not believe that this is a break away...it and everything attached to it is definitely permanent.

It's probably not a surge break either. I think that it was just added on after the fact and this is where they mounted it. Here's a picture...it's not very good so may have to try to get a better one later in the day when sun is in better position. I believe the wire to the right is a ground wire.

<img src=http://www.fiberglassrv.com/board/uploads/3e185867d3425trailerbrakes.JPG/>

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I'm guessing, but it's possible that's a gel-cell battery to operate the elec brakes via a breakaway switch. Either you don't have an on-board battery or you have a lot of redundancy if that is the case.

OTOH, that may be an inertia (aka surge) mechanism designed to activate electric brakes when the rig slows down; if sensitive enuf, it may also serve as a breakaway switch itself.

Pete and Rats

PS I think the terminology would be "Surge brakes are activated by the change in inertia".

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I was able to recontruct enough of the faded top label to figure out the name after only three trips outside.

What I came up with (in addition to the Tekonsha that I knew) was ''Weathertronic.''

Doing a google on Tekonsha Weathertronic only came up with one hit. It was a list of items. One of which was this:

EB3 Weathertronic TR/mount controller each $ 177.72

Searching for ''Weathertronic'' produced a multitude of hits. Best I can tell it is Meteorological and Hydrological Instruments or just weather stuff in general.

The Tekonsha site was no help, so I e-mailed them and asked exactly what it was and if it worked with or against my Prodigy controller.

I come up with the dernedest stuff, don't I?

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It looks like an old timey brake controller to me, SUZ.

Note: The brake controller in my pickup (and probably in your tow) is inertial. The (inertial) pendulum controls the application on the brakes. There's no reason for it being inside the tow except for monitoring the little light, adjusting and for manual application. Functionally, it could be mounted anywhere.

Pete (or one of the rats) said, "Surge brakes are activated by the change in inertia." Actually our brakes are activated by a change in velocity (acceleration) sensed by an inertial element, a pendulum.

Some brake controllers don't use an inertial element. They rely on timing. The longer you hold your foot on the brake pedal, the more current they apply to the trailer brakes. I've never used that type, but I don't think I'd like it.

I have used surge brakes and did not like them at all. It felt like a load of elephants bumping around in the trailer. They're controlled mechanically by sensing the force with which the trailer tries to push the tow. The harder the trailer pushes, the harder they brake. I guess, in one sense, surge brakes are inertial; the trailer is the inertial sensing element.

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Hi All
I don't know about the States but in some areas of Canada surge brakes are not permmited. Food for thought.:)

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Hopefully, I will hear from Tekonsha and they will clarify what, if anything, I need to do. If I don't get an e-mail from them soon, I think I will give them a call.

It may be that I have a redunant system that is somehow competing with itself. I just don't know that much about it. If I can, I will remove it, reconnect the wires and use just the Prodigy.

Would there be any reason anyone could think of that I would need that AND the one in my tow vehicle?

At this point, I think Tekonsha will have to clear it up for me...what do you think?

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Suz
I don't think having two breaking systems is a sound idea. I think I would ask advice from RV Dealers Teck.

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Ches, I totally agree. I just want to make sure that is what I have. RV techs are pretty good...some are very good...I just want to talk to someone who knows exactly what a 'Weathertronic' AND a Prodigy is. That way, I'll be sure I'm getting the straight poop. You'd be amazed at how many people just make stuff up cuz it sounds good...especially when talking to a woman.

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Suz
I agree with what your saying. I beleive most people are sincer. but when it comes to safety I tend to take a harder look at things. On the market today you can buy anything you want, But is it safe for your application and is it legal.
Things like propane.electrics,brakes,Hitches are items I look at very strongly.
Any remodling like painting and items of this nature is most likely ok.
The other item I look at is tow vehicals. Lots of people say you can tow with this or that. Sure you can.Question I ask is CAN YOU STOP.
The article in another thread on towing and weights is really a good one on this subject.:E :E :)

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Suz,

I found this in a thread from 1998 on newsgroup rec.outdoors.rv-travel:

Message 31 in thread
From: Sven (theexpediter@att.net)
Subject: Re: Urgent trailer break question?



View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel, alt.rv





Date: 1998/08/25



Tekonsha used to offer a trailer mounted brake control called the
'Weathertronic'. Essentially worked the same as any other brake
control, only it did not offer the manual control now required by DOT.
They discontinued the product about 10 years ago.
--
Sven Magnuson
The Expediter
1-800-330-1800 / fax 1-888-330-1888
Please visit our web site http://www.expediter.com

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Morgan;

Great information. Your get a feather in your hat. Good reserch.

I knew someone would find the answer.

Good Job:banana

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Okay, we are making progress here.

Chester, I do appreciate your input. Thanks. I totally agree with you. There are some things that don't bother me. I got enough smarts to pretty much figure out whats what on paint, plaster, wall papering, laying tile, building stuff...you name it, I've probably done a good portion of it. If it ain't right, it can be fixed. I usually ask around, get a dozen or so different answers, then do it the way that I feel makes the most sense. HOWEVER, I don't mess with safety stuff. I don't know much, but I know when things don't add up. So, I'm pretty cautious. If I start to fudge on a safety issue, I always hear what my Daddy use to say: 'Daughter, I taught you better than that.' I am well within my tow limits, so that is not a problem in the least.

Even though I had the Tekonsha Prodigy installed a short time ago (I didn't have the trailer with me) and have only driven it about 70 miles with the trailer, I've just had the feeling something wasn't quite right. It wasn't that it wasn't stopping, it was. When I read Morgan's earlier post ( It felt like a load of elephants bumping around in the trailer) something clicked in my head. I kept assuming that was entirely due to my light tongue weight. Now I am beginning to wonder.

Morgan...you found what I was looking for. Thank you supremely!
I do believe you have found my answer.

If this turns out the way I think it is going to, then I will no longer feel bad about asking these dumb questions and pestering y'all until I get an answer.

I'll let you know what I find out.

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Orginally posted by Suz

If this turns out the way I think it is going to, then I will no longer feel bad about asking these dumb questions and pestering y'all until I get an answer.

I'll let you know what I find out.

Suz,

The only dumb question is one you don't ask.

What my daddy used to say was, "read the bottom of the boot."

I have an idea the Weathertronic is not working and the jerking you're feeling is caused by maladjustment of the Prodigy. Did you adjust it properly? Probably you should have the Weathertronic removed, then readjust the Prodigy per the instructions.

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Suz---I agree with Morgan.Any question is worth an answere.We would all look pretty stupid if no one asks any one anything.:o

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Occurs to me that whichever one is more sensitive will be the "controller" in that it will activate first. If you can get it "elephanting" and ease on the manual control and nothing much happens, the Prodigy is prolly coming on first.

Keep on pestering, because that's the way we all learn new stuf, and even asking the same questions tends to be of use to the folks who lurk and learn but are too shy to speak up.

Pete and Rats