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Old 05-24-2016, 07:00 PM   #1
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Name: Bill&Laura
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Trying to re-seal windows

We have four windows that are leaking and I want to re-seal them so I pulled the bathroom window because it's the smallest to start out. I had attempted to re-seal this bathroom window with a double layer of butyl tape but it was a mess and it still leaked.

So, I'm starting over. I've pulled the bathroom window and I cleaned the frame and the camper surface and applied the butyl tape to the frame but when I try to reinstall, the screws won't pulled the frame tight enough to close the gap in the corners. I thought that maybe the screws were too long because they seemed almost an inch in length so I swapped them out for 3/4" screws but it still won't even come close to pulling the corners down. The top/bottom and sides look like they're sealed, but now I have to wonder; maybe it just looks sealed.

Am I doing something wrong?
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Old 05-25-2016, 10:52 AM   #2
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Name: Wendy Lee
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Hi,

I'm no expert and have only watched videos of window installs. The vids I watched did show 2 layers of butyl, as you have done. But I wonder if one layer might not be as thick and help the window seat better?

Also wondered...does window itself appear normally shaped, no bowing, warping or other weird stuff. I guess if it now appears sealed you could always squirt a gentle hose of water above it, or perhaps a small amount from a watering can to check if it's leak free.

Probably not much for good ideas, but I do send hope and well wishes your way!

Wendy

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Old 05-25-2016, 11:09 AM   #3
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Bill&Laura,

When I resealed the jalousie windows on our Boler 13, I slowly tightened the screws until butyl seeped out all the way around the edges. May take a day or two before butyl seeps out all the way around. If it doesn't, tighten the screws more. Also, helps to have warm ambient temperature. Also, using a thicker layer of butyl tape is better.

Also, is it possible that the persistent leaks in your bathroom window are between the sash and the window frame??

Edit: Also, can you tell that the screws are actually holding/biting?

-John
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Old 05-25-2016, 01:24 PM   #4
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Gentlemen: The bathroom window has never been sealed. It leaked when we brought the camper home in November and I tried to reseal it once with double butyl but that didn't work.

Yesterday I pulled this window again, the smallest window in the camper that measures approximately 8" X 14" and is frosted, and removed all the butyl. I attempted to reset the window using a single layer of butyl but the screws won't pull the two parts of the frame together to seat the butyl at all. I have turned the screws as far as I can and they won't turn anymore. I actually broke one of the screw heads off while attempting to force them tighter and was lucky enough to be able to remove the broken shaft of the screw with a channel locks.

Need some new ideas for this issue. Right now, I'm thinking about trying to employ the sticky taped foam window strip that came with the sliding rear window we ordered from Scamp. That stuff might be thick enough to seal. I just don't know. Unfortunately, I'm out of ideas right now so I thought I'd come here and ask for advice. It seems that over 150 people have read my post but only two have chosen to offer assistance, so I'm running out of ideas. I has been less than 24 hours since I posted my request so I may hear from a few others that only get online at night after work/dinner.

Help!
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Old 05-25-2016, 01:47 PM   #5
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Bill&Laura,

Are you saying that the screws are not doing their job, i.e., not pulling the window frame snug to the body? Is there a wood strip inside the trailer that the screws are supposed to screw into? If not, another option is to use machine screws with nuts (use with thread lock compound or use nylock nuts).

Edit: For the screw that broke off, was the screw screwing in tight to the body or just to the window frame? If the screw is screwing in tight to the window frame, you need to drill the hole in the window frame larger, or use a small diameter screw thread.

-John
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Old 05-25-2016, 01:56 PM   #6
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Bill&Laura,

The butyl sealing method is pretty simple. If you can tighten the screws all the way around the frame tight enough so that butyl oozes out all the way around, then you are done. If the window still leaks, then its probably coming in around the sash. If that is the case, then you may need to replace plastic trim pieces on the sash.

-John
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Old 05-25-2016, 02:24 PM   #7
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I've tightened the screws so much that they're breaking off and the gap between the exterior window frame and the side of the camper is so huge that the butyl isn't touching the camper at all. I don't think there is any plastic involved in the window frame at all.

There zero seal.

When I completed this process on the back slider window, it sealed beautifully and it was possible to see how the butyl is supposed o work. These two windows, the bathroom window as compared to the larger slider, are manufactured in very much the same way and should assemble using the same methods, but they don't. I'm going to remove the bathroom window again and make a closer examination to see if I can identify the issue.

I'll dry fit the window to see if everything mates correctly, and then, maybe, failing any new evidence of problems, I may try the thicker sealing foam that Scamp sent me for installing the rear slider. Humm...
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Old 05-25-2016, 02:26 PM   #8
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J:

I like the reasoning you have here as you examine the issue. The screws are through the metal frame on the inside of the camper into the metal frame on the outside of the window frame. No wood involved. I've added four holes, one in each corner, to assist in smoothly pulling the frames together, but that didn't help.


I'm going to remove the screws completely from the installation process and see how the window fits "dry" by even removing the butyl. If everything fits correctly, then it stands to reason that the screws are causing the problem, as you've mentioned, and they holes will need to be bigger or the screws smaller.

I won't get to that tonight but I'm looking forward to tomorrow or this weekend.

Thanx for your input.

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Originally Posted by John in Michigan View Post
Bill&Laura,

Are you saying that the screws are not doing their job, i.e., not pulling the window frame snug to the body? Is there a wood strip inside the trailer that the screws are supposed to screw into? If not, another option is to use machine screws with nuts (use with thread lock compound or use nylock nuts).

Edit: For the screw that broke off, was the screw screwing in tight to the body or just to the window frame? If the screw is screwing in tight to the window frame, you need to drill the hole in the window frame larger, or use a small diameter screw thread.

-John
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Old 05-25-2016, 02:34 PM   #9
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I don't know the construction of your trailer but many of these rigs, like the Trillium, have a marine grade plywood frame/backing around the inside of the opening and under the inside wall covering which will be rotten if you have a chronic leaker so screws will no longer hold the frame tight. You'll find instructions on this site for replacing it but basically, just pull all the screws, carefully remove the plywood, cut matching pieces of new material, and put everything back together using new butyl as you are doing... I used stainless screws the same size as the old rusty ones I took out. It's a good idea to coat the screws and under the heads with silicone or use thin rubber washers to help prevent galvanic action.
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Old 05-25-2016, 02:36 PM   #10
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Bill&Laura,

That's a good plan: Dry fit to figure out why the frame isn't snugging up closer. Could be that the screws are tightening into first hole in which they have contact before they have tightened into the second hole in which they have contact.

-John
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Old 05-25-2016, 03:04 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by TheWanderers View Post
Gentlemen: I attempted to reset the window using a single layer of butyl but the screws won't pull the two parts of the frame together to seat the butyl at all. I have turned the screws as far as I can and they won't turn anymore. I actually broke one of the screw heads off while attempting to force them tighter and was lucky enough to be able to remove the broken shaft of the screw with a channel locks.
Its been awhile since I resealed my Scamps bathroom window.
So I do not recall all the details and as the trailer no longer is in the driveway I can't go and look for a refresher.

You are using the Butyl tape on the outside frame only correct?

And it is the inside frame that you are having difficulty getting to fit back in correctly?

I recall having problems refitting the inside frame for the bathroom window as well. I can not recall what I did but I seem to recall it ended up being something silly I was doing. Inside frame turned backwards or not set into the outside frame far enough or something like that. After much playing around with it I was able to get it to fit back in correctly.
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Old 05-25-2016, 03:10 PM   #12
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Bill, how about showing us a few good pics of what you have? Of both the window frame and the opening. I'd like to see what you're talking about with the dry fit being a large gap.
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Old 05-25-2016, 04:18 PM   #13
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Sorry I wasn't of more help. Probably beyond me but just so you know I feel for you and your dilemma. Much smarter folks have given great ideas. Best wishes and hang in there!

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Old 05-25-2016, 04:18 PM   #14
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I've seen two types of windows. Those with a clamping ring. The screws are inside. Those that screw from the outside. I'm assuming that's what you've got. In either case, in order to tighten, the part that is closest to the screw head has to have holes bigger than the screw. The part that does the pulling has to be able to grip the screw. You might need to add an interior plywood frame around the window to give the screws something to screw into. A picture would help. Raz
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Old 05-25-2016, 04:40 PM   #15
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Here it what I did for my windows. I do not have a bath room window as My 13 footer doesn't have a bathroom but the kitchen window appears to be the same.

step 1. clean around the window.

2. blue tape around the window leaving about 1/16 inch gap between the tape and the window frame.

3. remove the window.

4. clean the window frame & fiberglass trailer where the window mounts.

5. put the window back in its opening without any sealant on it.

6. note the areas that don't touch the fiberglass when you put the window in place. These areas have to be built up with extra butyl putty. One of my windows needed 2 extra layers in the corners on top of the single layer all around the window frame.

4. On my Scamp the inside trim ring is installed backwards because of the thin wall structure.

5. remove the window and fit the trim ring backwards as used on thin walls. the trim ring must be able to go all the way down the window frame. When I received my used Scamp the small frosted window trim ring was split. All of my other trim rings were not split. All of my windows are radius windows not jalousie windows.

6. After you verified that your trim rings are fitting properly and right way around mark them so you can put them back together properly.

7. with the frames on the window check the gap between the trim ring and the window frame. once the screws are tightened all the way the ring cant go further down. this is the gap you have to fill. Hopefully this gap is narrower than the thickness of your wall. I had no issue with this gap on my trailer as I have the thickness of the fiberglass shell, double thick reflextic and rat fur liner a at minimum 1 layer of butyl tape. In your case you probably have a shower liner too. If this is not thick enough for your trim ring you will need to add some more Butyl strips to take up the gap. I don't know if you also add a layer of butyl under the inside trim ring to seal the shower side.

8. install the window with the necessary layers of butyl with extra as needed in the areas that don't fit flat.

9. tighten the screws working around the trim ring a little at a time until the butyl starts to squeeze out all around the window frame. it is important the screws don't bottom out before the trim ring clamps up and if the trim ring bottoms against the window don't go cranking down on the screw it wont tighten any more and just breaks the screw or strips it. I replaced all of my old screws when I resealed my windows. Old screws are easy to strip the heads on giving you lots of trouble later.

10. after you you get the window installed let it sit a day or so that way the butyl releases its tension. then take a dull knife and trim the butyl around the window frame. Now pull off your tape and reveal a nice clean install with out a bunch of goop to clean up. When trimming the Butyl best to do it cold first thing in the morning. Once the stuff warms up it can cut into a gooey mess.

11. some people run an extra bead of sealer around the window to cover the exposed butyl. I don't but some people do.

12 Use real butyl tape. do not use putty tape. test what you are using. stretch it like you would a piece of chewed bubble gum. it should stretch smooth and slick for over 6 inches or more when warm. putty tape will only stretch a couple of inches if your lucky and where it breaks it will look grainy.
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Old 05-25-2016, 05:43 PM   #16
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I would not use the foam tape. I tried that on a rear window from Scamp, it leaked. Butyl tape worked great, no leak.
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Old 05-25-2016, 05:51 PM   #17
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Whoa! Lot's of good information here and plenty of responses like I was hoping for; thanks to everyone who has chimed in. The windows we're using are two part metal, aluminum I think but it could be steel, with screws from the inside to the outside only. The screws are mostly torn up and I will be replacing them with new stainless steel screws that I hope to pick up from Lowe's tomorrow. We have impending rain so I didn't take the chance and pull the window tonight. We'll have to see about tomorrow night...thanks again for all the ideas. I am optimistic that we can get this problem resolved.
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Old 05-25-2016, 08:06 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWanderers View Post
Whoa! Lot's of good information here and plenty of responses like I was hoping for; thanks to everyone who has chimed in. The windows we're using are two part metal, aluminum I think but it could be steel, with screws from the inside to the outside only. The screws are mostly torn up and I will be replacing them with new stainless steel screws that I hope to pick up from Lowe's tomorrow. We have impending rain so I didn't take the chance and pull the window tonight. We'll have to see about tomorrow night...thanks again for all the ideas. I am optimistic that we can get this problem resolved.
Bill yours sound to be the same as the one on my 92 which I resealed. Its a two person job. Once you have the tape on the window press it from the outside onto the trailer and the opening and have someone inside fit the inside clamp ring. I know that due to the fact the side of the trailer is slopped at that point it does take a bit to press it in and get it so it sits evenly onto the trailer.
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Old 05-25-2016, 10:19 PM   #19
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If things won't tighten up you can trace out the inside trim ring on a piece of lauan and cutout a inside spacer to go under the trim ring if all else fails.
Eddie
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Old 05-25-2016, 11:33 PM   #20
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If the parts worked before, they should work now without any modifications. The outside flange and the inside flange should go together with some moderate tightening of the screws. If they aren't, the only thing I can think of would be that the two flanges are binding instead of one sliding into the other.
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