Warning about tight lug nuts on Scamp - Fiberglass RV


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Old 07-26-2019, 04:42 PM   #1
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Name: Bill
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Warning about tight lug nuts on Scamp

Yesterday, I decided to do a mock tire change on my new Scamp 13. That is, loosen the lug nuts, jack up that side, lower it, then tighten the lug nuts. This is to make sure I could do it in case I had a problem and there was no cell phone signal to call for road service.

I used a 13/16 socket on an 18" breaker bar. I'm probably stronger than the average 83 year old man, but the nuts wouldn't budge. I had to add a 2' piece of 1 1/2 pipe as a "persuader" to break them loose. After jacking the rig up and lowering it one side at a time, I tightened all the lug nuts. I will take the trailer to my mechanic and have them checked for proper torque.

If I had had a flat without being able to call for assistance, I would have had to hope for a Highway Patrolman or good Samaritan.

One other caution: A deep socket is needed to remove the spare tire.
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Old 07-26-2019, 04:45 PM   #2
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It IS a concern. Also need to make certain the jack you HOPE to use actually works on the trailer. There's a reason a number of people carry and use a torque wrench.
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Old 07-26-2019, 05:24 PM   #3
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My first thought was that maybe the tires were old and the lubrication on the lug nuts gone, but then read it was new. Set from 90-100 ft-lbs they should come off not too bad. I know many folks do not lubricate the threads as they should though. If it is new, can't you get Scamp to deal with it?
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Old 07-26-2019, 05:46 PM   #4
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Re: Tight lug nuts

There was no need for Scamp to handle this, although I will notify them about it because their impact wrench is set way too high. I just posted this to make new owners aware of the possibilities.

Whenever I get a new vehicle - car, truck, or RV - I do the same thing. I used to rotate my own tires just to keep in practice. (I once changed a flat in less than 10 minutes.) And I grease the lugs. Whenever I taught anyone to drive, I also had them loosen the lugs on one wheel, jack the car up, lower it, and tighten the lugs. Every driver should know how, although I admit with cell phones and roadside call boxes, it's less likely to be needed.

But there's always Murphy's law and its subsections.
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Old 07-26-2019, 05:58 PM   #5
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Tight lug nuts

If there’s a Harbor Freight in your area they sell a cheap $20 Chinese made torque wrench which we’ve found to be pretty accurate in testing. It’s a 1/2 inch drive with range from like 30 to 150 ft/lbs. might be something you’d like to pick up. As Jim said, 90 to 100ft lbs should be reasonably attainable. It’s possible that whoever mounted the wheels on the trailer you have used an air impact wrench set too high or with the wrong torque stick. This did not necessarily happen at the Scamp factory. When I torque up a tire and wheel I set my wrench at 35 ft lbs, do all the nuts, adjust the wrench to 65 ft lbs, do all nuts, adjust to 95 ft lbs. tighten each nut down till she clicks and I’m done. They can change a little that first 200 miles or so. It doesn’t cost anything to check them if you have your own wrench.
That’s my experience.
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Old 07-26-2019, 06:01 PM   #6
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You're absolutely right, Bill. I have a 16-year-old who is getting ready to get her license. You have reminded me that I told her I would not let her take the test until she shows me she can fill the gas, check the oil and tire pressure, and change a tire. Summer's almost over. Need to get busy!
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Old 07-26-2019, 06:02 PM   #7
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I'd heard that you should not lube the lug nuts.

Found this discussion of the issue on https://www.tirereview.com/its-reall...bout-lug-nuts/

There is a great deal of argument is whether to lubricate lug threads. Some swear by the use of some form of anti-seize on the threads, whether lithium grease, WD-40, motor oil or Teflon spray. The idea is to prevent rust and make it easier when it comes time to remove the lugs. Others recoil in horror, saying that lubing the threads will iresult in overtorqued nuts, or that the lubrication will cause the nuts to work themselves loose.
Manufacturers, engineers and other industry experts seem to unanimously oppose using lubrication. On the other hand, some customers, DIYers and self-appointed Internet forum experts claim to have used thread lube since the very dawn of time with nary a problem.

The article coninues...
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Old 07-26-2019, 06:15 PM   #8
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Lubrication

Hi Glenn
Iím in the make sure the threads are clean and free of sand or dirt on the end of the studs before removing them but I do not lubricate. Thereís a whole science in the deflection of the threads, type of steel, torque setting etc thatís for engineers. Not an Aggie from Silo Tech (Iowa State) who uses a four way wrench and feel for many years.
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Old 07-26-2019, 06:29 PM   #9
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I have a torque wrench and breaker bar, but I've never used them. I do have a can of white lithium grease though.
I did try to remove the spare once and determined that my rear storage box prevents the wrench from turning. The box is now removable, so I do recommend practising.
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Old 07-26-2019, 06:39 PM   #10
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One good solution for lug nuts is to use cap nuts that keep moisture off of the threads. These are very easy to find at any parts store. I always put a set on trailers that don't come with them.

I also like to lube the threads. But lubed threads cause a lot more clamping force and bolt tension at the recommended torque. The correct torque for lubed threads is not a well defined number. Probably best to keep the grease off of the tapered end where the nut applies force to the wheel.

I can't recommend what others should do, but lubing the threads will prevent them from ever getting stuck and I do it on all of mine, trucks, trailers and cars. I also reduce the torque by about 20% on lubed threads. I have never, in something approaching a million miles, had any problem with nuts loosening up after they get their second torque check.

It's nice to have a proper jack along, but with trailers, you can always drag it onto a rock, run the tandem wheel up onto a block, park the flat tandem over a hole, or do something to gain access as needed, if you don't have a jack. I once used a 1/2" drive extension stood at an angle under the axle and then backed onto it as it straightened and lifted the wheel. Small aluminum floor jacks and scissors jacks work very well for trailers too. Carrying good tire tools is essential. And sometimes with aluminum wheels a thin wall deep sock can be required.

I recently stopped to help a guy working on his flat alongside the road. He thought he had the wrong size socket, but it turned out he had decorative stainless sleeves over the nuts and we just had to coax the socket on to each one with a big rock.

I agree with Bill that doing a trial run is a very good practice.
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Old 07-26-2019, 06:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo View Post
I have a torque wrench and breaker bar, but I've never used them. I do have a can of white lithium grease though.
I did try to remove the spare once and determined that my rear storage box prevents the wrench from turning. The box is now removable, so I do recommend practising.

Good point re: the spare. I checked my spare and found that it was attached using 1/2" 20 thread grade 8 bolts. The trailer is a 2018 and there was significant rust on the bolts holding the spare on. I had a hard enough time removing them, and I'm sure fast forwarding to another year or so and they would have been seized solid. I replaced the bolts with stainless and all is well.
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Old 07-26-2019, 06:42 PM   #12
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Practise makes Perrrfect

I’m a bearing greasing, brake spoon lickin, torque wrench clicking, dog training Fool. I tell my bride of 49 years I’m going down to work on her trailer. She doesn’t even look up. Maybe she should.
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Old 07-27-2019, 03:50 AM   #13
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Thread lubrication

FWIW

torque-lubrication-effects

I'm not sure where these folks got their numbers but clearly when you lubricate threads, the torque value does change. If the manual says torque to 75 ft-lbs, I assume dry threads.
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Old 07-27-2019, 09:13 AM   #14
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My family has owned tire shops for forty years. Hundreds of thousands of tires changed. No lube ever.
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Old 07-27-2019, 09:26 AM   #15
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Its true, using lube will increase the force a fastener produces. But all lubes do not work the same. The required torque needed will be reduced if lubricants are used. Each type of lubricant will change the torque value required to get the same tightness.
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Old 07-27-2019, 09:28 AM   #16
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Iíve never even heard of lubing the studs. Out here in the SW there is no reason to even consider it, so Iíll leave it at that.

I did help one local with a flat tire. The owner was local, but the vehicle clearly wasnít. Rust everywhere. Took a lot of penetrating oil and a cheater bar to get the lug nuts loose, then a small sledge to knock the wheel loose from the hub. Should have checked the tire date code, as they clearly hadnít been touched since the day they were installed, somewhere east of the Mississippi Iíd guess.

Now I remember why I left Maryland 35 years ago!...
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Old 07-27-2019, 09:34 AM   #17
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I had the same idea and could not get the lug nuts off. Ended up going to Lowe's and brought home a 3' length of pipe to use as a breaker bar. I'm glad I did this trial run because if I was on the road with a flat there was no way I was going to be able to change the tire! I had to use a big wrench to get the lug nuts off the spare because I did not have a deep socket.
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Old 07-27-2019, 10:00 AM   #18
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IMPACT WRENCH- read before you JUDGE!

I'm in the southeast. I recall trying to get my lug nuts off one time and a few of them were a struggle to the END. Why? The lugs were rusting! Never again. I added a little grease to all of them. NO WD40 as in the long run can make things worse. (Model airplanes engines- using WD40 will cause the bearings to rust!)

My overall solution that works for me is, I remove my wheel's/tires in the winter. So the lugs and nuts are ALWAYS "in shape" when I'm on the road.

I use a 19.2v Craftsman cordless drill for the front jack of my Scamp. I have a matching flashlight. About 2 yrs ago, I purchased (with a special deal) a Craftsman impact wrench that uses the same (now replaced with lithium-ion) 19.2v battery packs.

PEOPLE.....I take that impact with me on EVERY trip now be it truck/Scamp OR car. I have a Toyota Corolla and by chance ALL my wheels use the same size impact socket. I can pull the wheel of my Scamp in about 30 sec. now! You dont think this wont make a difference when you're sitting on the side of the road...especially the interstate facing the traffic????

Think about it.... super insurance and assurance for me now if I have a flat. The longer impact socket also works on the spare! Before I get roasted here, I DO finish-tightening with a lug wrench and NO I do not torque down with the impact.
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Old 07-27-2019, 10:25 AM   #19
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Rehearse, rehearse, reheasrs!

Oh yes wisdom beyond your years!

After a lifetime in various aspects of show business I know the worth of rehearsal and I've been using it in real life. Done the same thing as you with tire changes in every vehicle I have had, including tire repair on many of my motorcycles. Learn how to do these things under ideal conditions and when real life conditions whack you the blow isn't that hard!

Wheel lugs - no grease but frequent attacks with a steel brush to keep the nut and bolt threads clean.
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Old 07-27-2019, 11:13 AM   #20
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Here's a good article on lugs/nuts etc. Both pros/cons to lube or NOT to lube etc. I learned from it....

https://www.tirereview.com/its-reall...bout-lug-nuts/
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