Water and rot - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV
Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-22-2009, 06:28 AM   #21
Senior Member
 
Donna D.'s Avatar
 
Trailer: 1988 16 ft Scamp Deluxe
Posts: 25,697
The windows in my trailer are mounted using bolts and nuts... not rivets. Is this unusual? There's a clamping ring on the inside. The bolt runs from outside to inside. We haven't told Diane how to use the butyl yet, so I'll start and others can jump in.

The butyl I use is about 3/4 of the width of the window frame. I laid a layer all the way around. Then carefully pushed the window from outside to the inside. Had my daughter hold the window in place, go inside and mount the inside clamping ring working the insulation and rat fur gently underneath the ring. My daughter then fed the bolts through the outside window frame and I matched them up to the inside holes and put the nuts on... all the way around. I snugged the nuts down, but not massively tight. Took a plastic knife and removed the butyl that oozed out. A couple of days later, I'd cinch the nuts a bit more and more butyl would ooze out. Repeat with the plastic knife. Done.

I used SS hardware, but the very helpful gentleman at the hardware store suggested I put a thin nylon washer under the head of the bolt/nut. Stainless steel and aluminum are not good matches and will eventually corrode. I was able to buy very thin black washers and they're not even noticeable.

How'd I do?
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward - 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Double Yolk - 1988 16' Scamp Deluxe
Donna D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 07:45 AM   #22
Senior Member
 
Alf S.'s Avatar
 
Trailer: 2007 19 ft Escape 5.0 / 2002 GMC (1973 Boler project)
Posts: 4,148
Registry
Send a message via Yahoo to Alf S.
Hi: Donna D... What... No Pop Rivets??? Hmmm. Well you done good 'cept for I woulda put the screws thru from the outside and the nuts on the inside!!! Then again I can do anything backwards...( In defence of BUBBA)!!!
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie
Alf S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 08:18 AM   #23
Senior Member
 
Donna D.'s Avatar
 
Trailer: 1988 16 ft Scamp Deluxe
Posts: 25,697
Quote:
Hi: Donna D... What... No Pop Rivets??? Hmmm. Well you done good 'cept for I woulda put the screws thru from the outside and the nuts on the inside!!! Then again I can do anything backwards...( In defence of BUBBA)!!!
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie
Nope, no rivets. Did I not explain it properly. My tongue sometimes gets twisted around, so why not my fingers!
[b]"My daughter then fed the bolts through the outside window frame and I matched them up to the inside holes and put the nuts on... all the way around."
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward - 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Double Yolk - 1988 16' Scamp Deluxe
Donna D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 10:35 AM   #24
Member
 
Trailer: Scamp 16 ft
Posts: 38
I'm liking the no rivets idea, no little holes and no drilling in the future. How long were your bolts? I'm thinking to get short enough bolts so they don't poke out the wall over the dining table. You're the second person to mention the nylon washers. These are all great ideas!

Diane D

Diane D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 11:11 AM   #25
Senior Member
 
Raya's Avatar
 
Trailer: 1974 Boler 13 ft (Neonex/Winnipeg)
Posts: 3,008
And here I thought that since I was already advocating for no outside sealing, and no silicone, I'd better not mention replacing rivets with other fasteners in the same post

From what I've seen there are all manners of (stock) fasteners used on the windows. On my Boler, The inoperable ones have the rubber lockstrip, the small windows over the stove and in the door use rivets, and the larger jalousie windows beside the dinette use screws that go into anchoring strips that are inside the trailer.

I did see some of the operable windows when I was trailer shopping that had a clamp ring on the inside like what you're describing, Donna.

Diane, from what I know there are two or three main reasons to use rivets, and I don't think any of them apply to your trailer, so you could switch to another type of fasteners if you want to.

1) Rivets can be installed in places where one does not have access to the backside.

2) Rivets are much quicker and less expensive to install when you are building things in a factory, production setting where time is money and the volume makes little differences add up.

3) I suppose in the case of something like an airplane, with thousands of them, they are enough lighter to make a difference (although I'm not sure about this one)

When I replace rivets in my trailer, I will probably use screws and nuts. If I do use rivets I will look into the details of using the "sealing" rivets without the holes.

Raya
Raya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 08:24 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
Donna D.'s Avatar
 
Trailer: 1988 16 ft Scamp Deluxe
Posts: 25,697
Quote:
I'm liking the no rivets idea, no little holes and no drilling in the future. How long were your bolts? I'm thinking to get short enough bolts so they don't poke out the wall over the dining table. You're the second person to mention the nylon washers. These are all great ideas!

Diane D
Now you've got to rely on MY memory I'm going to say 2 inches...but keep a hack saw handy. I know the ones around the door window vary somewhere from an 1-1/2 to 2 inches, because of the way the window is put in. I also used the nylon filled acorn nuts. Guess they're like a lock washer.
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward - 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Double Yolk - 1988 16' Scamp Deluxe
Donna D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 10:19 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
Raya's Avatar
 
Trailer: 1974 Boler 13 ft (Neonex/Winnipeg)
Posts: 3,008
One tip, if you're going to be shortening bolts or machine screws:

First figure out how long you want the fastener, mark it, then remove it from the hole. Then thread a regular (non-locking) nut onto the bolt/screw and run it up pretty close to the head (you're just getting it out of the way so you can cut on your line). Cut the un-needed portion off the end, and then "chase" the threads by running the nut back off the end of the bolt/screw. The threads invariably get slightly buggered up when you cut the end off, and running the nut back over them straightens them out. Otherwise it can be difficult to get a nut started.

The nuts or Acorn nuts that have a bit of (usually white) nylon-like plastic in them are a form of locknut, so with them you don't need lockwashers or a second nut to keep the first one from backing off. You do need a tool to tighten them even hand tight, as they won't just "spin tight" by hand like a plain metal nut. This is only an issue when you're needing three hands to hold something and wish you could snug the nut up with your pinkie

Technically, you're not supposed to reuse this style of locknut, as the locking material gets compressed and won't work the same the second time you tighten it - although it's probably not a big deal on a non-critical camper application if you do so.

Raya
Raya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 11:07 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
Roy in TO's Avatar
 
Trailer: 1972 Boler American and 1979 Trillium 4500
Posts: 5,137
Quote:
I suppose in the case of something like an airplane, with thousands of them, they are enough lighter to make a difference (although I'm not sure about this one)
A friend of mine gave me some of the rivets they use in airplanes. They are very very tough. I tried a couple using the hand riveter with great difficulty before giving up and going out to buy more of the ones we use to finish the job. They are hard to get to use without power tools and hard to drill out. Totally different animal that what is used in our trailers.
Roy in TO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 10:48 PM   #29
Member
 
Trailer: Scamp 16 ft
Posts: 38
WoW!
got the butyl on, got the window back in, the butyl took up space so there was some ingenuity involved in getting the window in properly. Decided to go with screws, used 3/4" with nylon washers on the outside (to protect the aluminum widow frame from the stainless steel screws) and used the nylon lined nuts on the inside. They only stick out a little and I may be able to re-cover them simply with the wall liner (ensolite?)

The rotted wood is a whole different challenge - to get the fiberglass tabbed wood mounts off, I used a wood chisel and came at them from the side - with the right angle it gives a pretty close separation and even got under the tab and pulled it off. I was initially paranoid that I would go through the wall but it didn't happen, must be due to the side angle. Still have one support to go - am working on getting a functional template done before I pull off the old one - it sits in the back curved wall of the Scamp and I need to reproduce the curve.

Have collected info on the furnace and will be tackling that after the wood support replacement.

Thanks everyone for the assistance, it is all extremely helpful!

Diane D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2009, 12:59 AM   #30
Senior Member
 
Raya's Avatar
 
Trailer: 1974 Boler 13 ft (Neonex/Winnipeg)
Posts: 3,008
Go Diane!

Oh, you wouldn't by chance have any photos? Pretty please?
Raya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2009, 04:08 PM   #31
Junior Member
 
Francis McDermott's Avatar
 
Trailer: Surfside 14
Posts: 19
Aircraft rivets come in an array of types and sizes but all are bucked with a pneumatic hammer against a steel backer (buck) so are not only difficult but a big PITA to install. Extremely torque sensitive to do properly.

I like the stainless threaded fastener plan!

Also wonder if the low-expansion foam used for installing new house window units might help with sealing.

Have to say, I'm a newbie here but am relieved greatly to know there are others who, like me, take on rather tired old fibreglass trailers saying to themselves; "I can fix THAT...!"

Not everyone buys new.

Cheers!
Francis McDermott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2009, 04:10 PM   #32
Member
 
Trailer: Scamp 16 ft
Posts: 38
Photos!
Here is a photo series about how I took out the old and put in the new! (so far!) All I have to do now is replace the seat itself in the back and the cushion for the bunk in the front. - easy compared to the fiberglassing!

A word about fiberglassing, cut all of your pieces of cloth and have them in position (or close by), have it all ready to go because once you mix your resin/hardener you have limited time to work, like 10 minutes for it all! don't mix too much at once and if you need more than one batch, have extra brushes handy because the used ones stiffen too much to be effective.

Ready to go once I get the water pump and heater taken care of.

Attached Thumbnails
Rotted_seat_support_close_up_for_export.jpg   Bunk_Support.jpg  

Bunk_Support_Removal.jpg   Tab_Removal_2.jpg  

Clearing_tab_from_wall.jpg  
Diane D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2009, 05:56 PM   #33
Senior Member
 
Dan Meyer's Avatar
 
Trailer: 2000 Scamp 16 ft Side Dinette
Posts: 728
I was going to post that fiberglassed-in cleats are the way the factory fastens the seats to the wall. That's the way it is done in my trailer - a piece of wood, about 3/4 of an inch square (I've not measured - don't quote me on this figure...) and several inches long is embedded and fiberglassed into the wall with resin and glass fiber.

The pictures above show considerable difference from the way it is done in my '00 Scamp 16.

Good luck with your repair - and post more pictures about how the repair progresses!

-- Dan Meyer
Dan Meyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2009, 08:05 PM   #34
Member
 
Trailer: Scamp 16 ft
Posts: 38
I added the upright supports and fiberglassed tabs over each section - here is a picture of the new supports - I've replaced the seat and they seem very stable - haven't replaced the bunk up front yet - will do that after my vacation.
Attached Thumbnails
New_Supports.jpg  
Diane D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2009, 08:35 PM   #35
Senior Member
 
Raya's Avatar
 
Trailer: 1974 Boler 13 ft (Neonex/Winnipeg)
Posts: 3,008
Diane,

First of all, high fives! You totally rock in the Git'er Done department

And your photo essay is great, too.

Nice job on the re-tabbing. Oh boy, could I hear you when you said to have all the pieces cut and ready. In fact, since they are typically going to be painted, I just write right on my pieces with a black sharpie so I can keep track of them. Then I wet them all out on a big sheet of plastic right next to where I'm going to apply them. Not that you need any tips now

By your extreme time limits, I'm guessing you were working with polyester resin (large amount of resin, a few drops of catalyst, and a smell that permeates your clothing). If you venture into the realm again, you might want to try epoxy. It's got better secondary bonding characteristics (i.e. it will stick better to old work, although you still have to prep properly), a much longer open time, and does not smell (although still important to wear protective gear). It's a bit more expensive, but in the small quantities we use for these types of projects, not a big deal.

In fact, one of the reasons boatyards tend to favor Vinylester (a variation on polyester) is that the long "open" time of epoxy makes it hard to get things done when you're trying to make money, yet still not charge the customer an arm and a leg. (Vinylester is also a good resin, so it's not like they're delivering a sub-standard product.)

Oh, and cute web holding the Ensolite back.

I can't wait to see the progress as you continue to make the new egg yours

Raya
Raya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2009, 11:20 PM   #36
Member
 
Trailer: Scamp 16 ft
Posts: 38
Yeah, I used the polyester resin stuff, kept both garage doors open and used a face mask. With the time factor (and stickiness) I found it easier to put a layer of resin, stick the cloth down, then paint over it in place. I found that I could also use the paintbrush to smooth and position the tabs as I covered them. Sharpies are a good idea, most of my pieces were the same size so I just stacked them in front of the positions.
I'll have to keep the epoxy in mind for the next time, sounds more manageable.
Diane D is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hot water coming out of the cold water side Matthew A Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 0 06-01-2010 09:37 AM
Water supply hose to the holding tank - grey water Kathy L Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 2 08-26-2009 04:52 PM
Black water-Grey Water ROIDON L Plumbing | Systems and Fixtures 3 07-23-2009 06:09 PM
Water Tank fill valve from City water line! Michael Pupeza Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 6 06-20-2008 04:10 PM
Trouble adding water to a fresh water tank Dan Tracy Problem Solving | Owners Helping Owners 1 05-05-2008 08:11 PM

» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 465 days.
» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.