Wheel/tire size on a 13' Scamp

[Steve Hammel]

Over the weekend my sister became the proud owner of a 1986 Scamp 13'. It looked great in the pictures, especially the axle as there was a lot of room in the wheel wells. When she got the Scamp home we noticed that it had bias ply 12" wheels/tires. My question is did Scamp ever come with 12" tires? I have never heard of them coming that small. Thoughts?

[Jon in AZ]

I don't think so, and I'm having a hard time imagining a good reason to make the change.

[Steve Hammel]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

I don't think so, and I'm having a hard time imagining a good reason to make the change.

My thought would be that they might have had some 12" wheels/tire laying around and just put them on when the 13's wore out or the 13's were rubbing on the fiberglass from a worn out axle. I looked underneath but didn't see any rub marks.


One other thought is they may have needed a few inches lower to get into a garage.

Before I help her get the proper tires and wheels I just wanted to make sure that Scamp didn't offer a 12" wheel at one time.

[floyd]

It did not come stock with 12" tires.


The stock wheel is 13X5 with ZERO offset.


The replacement Tire is 175/80-13


If it has a five lug pattern... (likely) it is 5 on 4-1/2.


If it has a four lug pattern... it is 4 on 4-1/4

[Steve Hammel]

It is 4 lug. Thank You!

[TomMarti]

It's always good to "measure twice" and buy once. Not sure everything in previous replies is accurate...

[stevebaz]

My 1987 Scamp 13 came with 4 lug 13" rims with 7" drum brakes.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by TomMarti

It's always good to "measure twice" and buy once. Not sure everything in previous replies is accurate...

Good Advice! But since you surely don't deny Steve's statement that he has 4 lug wheels, then you must be doubting the accuracy of my post alone!That's fine, let me know when you find my error.


BTW ... Early Scamps had 155s but they are really not commonly available any more.

[thrifty bill]

Also, check the date codes on the tires. I picked up a used Trillium about a month ago, tires were 24 years old! Needless to say, I changed them out in the seller's driveway.

[TomMarti]

Friendly reply here... seems there are often no right or wrong answers regarding these trailers when it comes to the finer details, and this forum has been a huge help to me in rebuilding a 1970's vintage Love Bug. I'm a "lurker" and not a "poster" on this forum. As a newbie, I quickly learned that there is wide variety in all sorts of things on these trailers... even with the same manufacturer and same time period. Before going whole hog on something (such as replacing axle and wheels which I had to do), it was helpful to carefully look at pictures and read text of more than one posting on the subject. [Also observed that it's unwise and unproductive to be disagreeable in postings, and glad to see that neither of us are!!!]

So specifically with respect to bolt patterns and such... I saw a posting for four lugs that says "If it has a four lug pattern... it is 4 on 4-1/4"

Well, to quote an ex-President of the United States, "It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is." HA!! Well, I have a 4 lug pattern and it IS 4 on 4. Scamp Trailer website sells 4 bolt pattern wheel as 4 on 4.

Bottom line: Maybe it is, and maybe it isn't. The suggestion to measure, as most will agree, is a good rule of thumb.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by TomMarti

Friendly reply here... seems there are often no right or wrong answers regarding these trailers when it comes to the finer details, and this forum has been a huge help to me in rebuilding a 1970's vintage Love Bug. I'm a "lurker" and not a "poster" on this forum. As a newbie, I quickly learned that there is wide variety in all sorts of things on these trailers... even with the same manufacturer and same time period. Before going whole hog on something (such as replacing axle and wheels which I had to do), it was helpful to carefully look at pictures and read text of more than one posting on the subject. [Also observed that it's unwise and unproductive to be disagreeable in postings, and glad to see that neither of us are!!!]

So specifically with respect to bolt patterns and such... I saw a posting for four lugs that says "If it has a four lug pattern... it is 4 on 4-1/4"

Well, to quote an ex-President of the United States, "It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is." HA!! Well, I have a 4 lug pattern and it IS 4 on 4. Scamp Trailer website sells 4 bolt pattern wheel as 4 on 4.

Bottom line: Maybe it is, and maybe it isn't. The suggestion to measure, as most will agree, is a good rule of thumb.

You certainly established your point.

Below is a photo of my 1973 LoveBug with stock Ford Pinto wheels installed (4 on 4-1/4") these will actually interchange with the contemporary import wheel (4 on 108mm) this is the common pattern through out that era.
You are right that 4 bolt trailer wheels are now sold as (4 on 4")
To clarify , I went out this morning and checked an actual Scamp 13" 4 bolt rim circa 1980. It measured exactly the same (4-1/4") as the Pinto/MustangII wheel stored next to it.
I also have a couple of sets of 8" wheels both (5 on 4-1/2) and actually (4 on 4).
While I still contend that Scamp has always used 13" wheels (no 12")and that early Scamps clearly and properly accept the now obsolete (4 on 4-1/4) pattern later switched to (5 on 4-1/2).


In view of the fact that new trailer wheels are sold as (4 on4)...
Bottom line...
I of course concede that a measurement and trial fit is wise before purchase.
Thanks for bringing this up, there is a learning opportunity here.
I have never actually bought new trailer rims for a 4 bolt Scamp.



One last point of interest... Early Scamps used an automotive style wheel with a hubcap... maybe their first modern trailer wheel was 5 lug??
Is your (4 on4) wheel installed on your replacement axle?
Were they ever installed on the original axle?


Again, the LoveBug trailer below and several 4lug Scamps which I have owned have used (4 on 4-1/4) rims

[ShelbyM]

Originally Posted by TomMarti

It's always good to "measure twice" and buy once. Not sure everything in previous replies is accurate...

Good info! Often we don't know what we don't know....

[floyd]

Originally Posted by TomMarti

It's always good to "measure twice" and buy once. Not sure everything in previous replies is accurate...

Is your (4 on4) wheel installed on your replacement axle?
Were they ever installed on the original axle?

[ShelbyM]

[TomMarti]

Because you asked, original 1973 and replacement are the same 4 on 4.... my previous posts kinda sum up my thoughts.... just trying to be helpful...

[floyd]

Originally Posted by ShelbyM

[floyd]

Originally Posted by TomMarti

Because you asked, original 1973 and replacement are the same 4 on 4.... my previous posts kinda sum up my thoughts.... just trying to be helpful...

So being new doesn't explain the discrepancy.

Mine was a "73 as well and it came with 4 on 4-1/4.

"Nuff Sed"

[Nick J]

Originally Posted by floyd

It did not come stock with 12" tires.


The stock wheel is 13X5 with ZERO offset.


The replacement Tire is 175/80-13


If it has a five lug pattern... (likely) it is 5 on 4-1/2.


If it has a four lug pattern... it is 4 on 4-1/4

Floyd,

Have you any experience with putting larger tires on on your Scamp? I have been trying to find a LT 205/70-15 tire that will work on my 2016 13' and am actually having a very difficult time finding one that will work. Do you have any experience with this issue? I'm building my trailer to be able to handle modest off road work in the winter time and I am NOT interested in using ST tires, the stiff sidewalls combined with the incredably awful trailer suspensions does pretty much exactly what one would expect - shake the -*^#!*!! out of the trailer. My research indicates LT tires will work far better in terms of smoothness and the increase in height will be helpful (my suspension has been raised 3" already) and I have a Timbren axle less suspension laying on the living room floor ready to go.

Any insight you have will be most appreciated.

NickJ

ps The Timbren offers some rebound control, which should be a huge help.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Nick J

Floyd,

Have you any experience with putting larger tires on on your Scamp? I have been trying to find a LT 205/70-15 tire that will work on my 2016 13' and am actually having a very difficult time finding one that will work. Do you have any experience with this issue? I'm building my trailer to be able to handle modest off road work in the winter time and I am NOT interested in using ST tires, the stiff sidewalls combined with the incredably awful trailer suspensions does pretty much exactly what one would expect - shake the -*^#!*!! out of the trailer. My research indicates LT tires will work far better in terms of smoothness and the increase in height will be helpful (my suspension has been raised 3" already) and I have a Timbren axle less suspension laying on the living room floor ready to go.

Any insight you have will be most appreciated.

NickJ

ps The Timbren offers some rebound control, which should be a huge help.

Here is a comparison from Discount Tire's
Tire Size and Conversion Calculator

https://www.discounttire.com/learn/tire-size-calculator


You can plug-in stock size (175/80-13) then play with other sizes to compare all dimensions.
With your choice you will gain about 1-1/4" in section width and about 2-1/4" in overall diameter.
With a lift kit, it is likely doable. Whether the benefit is sufficient is subjective. check out the a 14" wheel with a205/75-14. This is a more common conversion and it gives you almost everything your 15s would give you.
I think sidewall strength is critical off pavement due to possible insults you may encounter such as sticks and stones.
I think that a new down angle axle or a lift kit would give you more of what's needed to get more overall ground clearance. The tire change is negligible ln comparison.

[zack sc]

We have a 2015 Scamp 13. Is there any reason to buy replacement tires and rims from Scamp directly (and pay the shipping to California)? (Scamp sells a 13 inch C white rim and tire combo for $123 each.) Or should I just try to find replacement tires locally.