Window Leak

[cyndi H]

Hi there. so it poured at the glass eggs rally but i was glad to discover that it did have leaks and it wasnt condensation after all. (even happier that i know where they are) So, someone suggested that i use mastic tape from the rv store but can i use the putty butyl tape from the hardware store? Is it the same thing? The process was described to me but i am more visual. does anyone out there have a video tutorial on removing/resealing the windows or a link to one? i was told it was easy but 80% of the time i take something apart it turns out to be a headache.

[Mike Bromley]

Here is one of Kevin Johnson's one of a kind Boler Videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhpKna85vY8

[Doug Mager]

Hi there. so it poured at the glass eggs rally but i was glad to discover that it did have leaks and it wasnt condensation after all. (even happier that i know where they are) So, someone suggested that i use mastic tape from the rv store but can i use the putty butyl tape from the hardware store? Is it the same thing? The process was described to me but i am more visual. does anyone out there have a video tutorial on removing/resealing the windows or a link to one? i was told it was easy but 80% of the time i take something apart it turns out to be a headache.

Cyndi, it seems that Carol H had similar issues which some of us were able to (I hope) correct for her. She was experiencing moisture coming from a small window and it appears that this windo had NO bottom drain/weep hole so it was suggested that maybe she might drill some small drain holes in the bottoms of the frame windows on the outside, being careful to drill on an angle as to avoid possible contact with the glass!!! Sure hope that works for her and your solution is as easy a fix....
Fall meet WILL be better, I promise!!!!

[cyndi H]

Here is one of Kevin Johnson's one of a kind Boler Videos.

thanks. i wish he would have done the entire thing though. oh well, i will assume that once i open it up where to put the sealant will be clearly visible and self-explanatory.

[cyndi H]

Cyndi, it seems that Carol H had similar issues which some of us were able to (I hope) correct for her. She was experiencing moisture coming from a small window and it appears that this windo had NO bottom drain/weep hole so it was suggested that maybe she might drill some small drain holes in the bottoms of the frame windows on the outside, being careful to drill on an angle as to avoid possible contact with the glass!!! Sure hope that works for her and your solution is as easy a fix....
Fall meet WILL be better, I promise!!!!

I dont trust anything but pulling it out and resealing. it was really pouring in and due to age it's 99% chance its a failed seal/rotten wood. I'm pretty sure carol's trailer is a newer one. Yes, sept will be better, i dare say HOT! it's usually pretty good that time of year and this summer is supposed to be a good one. i havent put it back together yet, it's still air drying. all seems dry but want to give the mattress an extra few days to be sure. At last an advantage to being short! My feet didnt touch the wet end of the bed If i was tall i would have went home.

[Mike Bromley]

thanks. i wish he would have done the entire thing though. oh well, i will assume that once i open it up where to put the sealant will be clearly visible and self-explanatory.

It is pretty self-evident when you get the window out. Scrape off the old putty, and clean the mating surfaces with paint thinner. Then lay the tape on to the window frame, being careful to overlap slightly. Begin with the whole length of the TOP. You can shape the overlap like putty. The bottom of the window side has a little bump on it which can be pre-filled with a short length of tape, which you can shape a bit before tugging off the release paper.

Replace the plywood strips; see if you can find some scraps of treated 3/4 ply to make the strips. Use #12X 1-inch stainless robertston pan head screws (basically what came out, but they aren't stainless)

Remove the screen from the Jalousie window so you can reach inside through the open louvres to hold the inner frame while starting the first screws. Working from the middle of each side of the window, run the screws in firmly so that the butyl just begins to squeeze out.

After a few minutes the squeeze-out will cease, then you can carefully cut the excess off with a dullish utility knife, to avoid gouging the gelcoat. It takes about an hour to do both windows if you have a means of shaping the plywood inserts for the inner frame.

[Chris McVeigh]

someone suggested that i use mastic tape from the rv store but can i use the putty butyl tape from the hardware store? Is it the same thing?

The putty tape at my local hardware store is plumbers tape which seems pretty close to the putty sold for Rv's but is greyer and maybe softer?
I'm not sure that it wouldn't work but the local Canadian Tire sells Rv butyl tape (in the same area that stocks the roof vents) if they are easier to get to than your nearest Rv dealer

[Raya]

I think the butyl is a good addition to the "plain" putty tape. So I would suggest the butyl putty tape.

I think you have the jalousie windows, and they don't typically have drain holes (I wouldn't add them, either). I think sliders need - and typically have - drain holes.

And I do think you are right to completely remove, re-seal, and then reinstall the window. Then you'll be good for another 30 years Anything that goes over the outside is just a band-aid fix, IMO.

Raya

PS: Is it the dinette windows that are leaking? I assumed that in my reply. If it is the smaller Hehr jalousies in the door/over the stove, then they have a special gasket that you can order from vintagetrailersupply.com (backframe gasket, which goes around the two sides and the bottom of those little windows).

PPS: On the inner frame: My 1974 has Burdick jalousies which have inner frame pieces of aluminum filled with wood, which the windows are screwed to; but on the later Bolers I've seen the dinette jalousies just have thin aluminum flanges on the inside and are riveted, so you may not have wood on the inside.

[cyndi H]

It is pretty self-evident when you get the window out. Scrape off the old putty, and clean the mating surfaces with paint thinner. Then lay the tape on to the window frame, being careful to overlap slightly. Begin with the whole length of the TOP. You can shape the overlap like putty. The bottom of the window side has a little bump on it which can be pre-filled with a short length of tape, which you can shape a bit before tugging off the release paper.

Replace the plywood strips; see if you can find some scraps of treated 3/4 ply to make the strips. Use #12X 1-inch stainless robertston pan head screws (basically what came out, but they aren't stainless)

Remove the screen from the Jalousie window so you can reach inside through the open louvres to hold the inner frame while starting the first screws. Working from the middle of each side of the window, run the screws in firmly so that the butyl just begins to squeeze out.

After a few minutes the squeeze-out will cease, then you can carefully cut the excess off with a dullish utility knife, to avoid gouging the gelcoat. It takes about an hour to do both windows if you have a means of shaping the plywood inserts for the inner frame.

Now if i could see that in a video.....................Thanks, i will try to follow that. ive already learned something-'mating surfaces' Does that mean i need to putty along the fiberglass and the window frame, like when you apply glue to both sides of an item? I took them off tonight, but likely wont get to cleaning and puttying them for a few days. i will be referring back to this though, thanks again. my stove window leaks too, maybe i should fix that one as well. i'm just not excited about drilling out the rivets. maybe tomorrow....

[cyndi H]

The putty tape at my local hardware store is plumbers tape which seems pretty close to the putty sold for Rv's but is greyer and maybe softer?
I'm not sure that it wouldn't work but the local Canadian Tire sells Rv butyl tape (in the same area that stocks the roof vents) if they are easier to get to than your nearest Rv dealer

I hadnt thought of good old CT! i will pick it up there hopefully, thanks

[cyndi H]

I think the butyl is a good addition to the "plain" putty tape. So I would suggest the butyl putty tape.

I think you have the jalousie windows, and they don't typically have drain holes (I wouldn't add them, either). I think sliders need - and typically have - drain holes.

And I do think you are right to completely remove, re-seal, and then reinstall the window. Then you'll be good for another 30 years Anything that goes over the outside is just a band-aid fix, IMO.

Raya

PS: Is it the dinette windows that are leaking? I assumed that in my reply. If it is the smaller Hehr jalousies in the door/over the stove, then they have a special gasket that you can order from vintagetrailersupply.com (backframe gasket, which goes around the two sides and the bottom of those little windows).

PPS: On the inner frame: My 1974 has Burdick jalousies which have inner frame pieces of aluminum filled with wood, which the windows are screwed to; but on the later Bolers I've seen the dinette jalousies just have thin aluminum flanges on the inside and are riveted, so you may not have wood on the inside.

So glad i read this. Yes, my stove window leaked as well. ive never noticed the door leaking but that's probably only b/c of the flashing above it! that, or all the moisture has just gone inside and warped the door. I'll order that gasket and deal with that one later, maybe next year. i really lack energy for this, more and more all the time. i was wiped all day just from going to the rally. maybe i'm a hotel gal after all.............

[cyndi H]

So glad i read this. Yes, my stove window leaked as well. ive never noticed the door leaking but that's probably only b/c of the flashing above it! that, or all the moisture has just gone inside and warped the door. I'll order that gasket and deal with that one later, maybe next year. i really lack energy for this, more and more all the time. i was wiped all day just from going to the rally. maybe i'm a hotel gal after all.............

Ok, i've pulled it apart, spent days collecting my new parts, and am ready to go. Questions:
1) the only 'butyl' tape i could find was from canadian tire and didnt actually say butyl tape. It is grey, putty, for windows, looks like what i remember except that rather than a solid strip on a roll it is segmented so you can peel off rope-like strips. i thought if i didnt peel it apart i could just use it as one piece. Correct?
2) on both windows the holes along the bottom edge are too close to the opening, most right at the edge. So, theres actually not a hole just a bunch of 1/2 moons chipped out of the window cut edge. do i need to drill new holes? I'm not excited about that b/c of adding holes to window frame. It's held all these years so far. Are 3 sides each of good holes good enough? Wont the inside frame hole it together as well? Please say yes......
3) the gasket previously mentioned for the stove window. Do you actually need this or can it be done with butyl tape as well?
4)Finally, is this a one person job, or does someone to hold the internal frame while i screw them in?
THANKS A LOT!

[Raya]

Hi cyndi,

The putty sounds like it may be non-butyl putty. Butyl will stretch quite a bit without wanting to break apart (like really elastic taffy or melted cheese), and I don't think putty will do that, so you may be able to test it. Also, I think any product containing butyl would brag about it on the packaging. Personally, I would resist the urge to go ahead with the job unless I were sure I had the right stuff, because the work is the main thing and takes just as long with either product - but IMO butyl will do a better job and last longer than "plain" putty.

As far as the holes extending into the opening, well it would have been nice if our campers had been a tiny bit more "crafted," but they are what they are.

If it were me, I would build up new fiberglass where it should have been in the first place, and then drill nice, tidy fully enclosed holes. It's not that hard a job; just think "papier mache with chemicals" It would give the sealant a better chance of working (proper flat bedding surface) and would make the installation more secure (not that the window is going to fly out this way, but the less movement and the more bedding surface the fewer leaks). OTOH, as you say, it has lasted this long, so you could probably get away with just putting it back as-is. I don't think I would drill new holes in the window; I can't see your window, but aluminum is not terribly strong, and that would probably put the holes very close to the edge of the window (unless I'm missing something in the description).

I think it's one of those jobs that, while it would certainly be easy with two people, one person could do it with a bit of a plan.

On the small window, I think you do need the backframe gasket, and I don't think butyl would work. That's because the gasket wraps around into the exposed area and is what seals the bottom and sides of the window when you open and close it (presuming you have this style of Hehr jalousie). It's the black rubber gasket you can see in the second photo.









Now if only we could see what you are doing

[Donna D.]

4)Finally, is this a one person job, or does someone to hold the internal frame while i screw them in?
THANKS A LOT!

Raya did a good job answer the rest of the questions... but I can give you my opinion on this one. I am a single-female and consequently need to do a number of things by myself. Pulling and resealing windows has turned into one of them. I find duct tape is an acceptable "person" in some circumstances Just don't leave it attached to the trailer too long, it turns into concrete.

[Raya]

I hear you Donna , and good point. Duct tape and Vise grips can do amazing things. And they never rush you or complain

Another thought is that, with Jalousies, you could perhaps use clamps if you removed the screen. Or perhaps something like a 1 x 3 spanning the opening on the inside and with fasteners going through them and a couple of the holes (then do the rest; then come back to those and do them the standard way).

Or, since I have not done mine yet, it may be just as simple to line things up, put in a few strategic fasteners, and then go back and do the rest.

Raya

PS: Donna, did you notice I used the ol' eyeball? I could just "see" you putting it in one of your posts

[cyndi H]

Hi cyndi,

The putty sounds like it may be non-butyl putty. Butyl will stretch quite a bit without wanting to break apart (like really elastic taffy or melted cheese), and I don't think putty will do that, so you may be able to test it. Also, I think any product containing butyl would brag about it on the packaging. Personally, I would resist the urge to go ahead with the job unless I were sure I had the right stuff, because the work is the main thing and takes just as long with either product - but IMO butyl will do a better job and last longer than "plain" putty.

As far as the holes extending into the opening, well it would have been nice if our campers had been a tiny bit more "crafted," but they are what they are.

If it were me, I would build up new fiberglass where it should have been in the first place, and then drill nice, tidy fully enclosed holes. It's not that hard a job; just think "papier mache with chemicals" It would give the sealant a better chance of working (proper flat bedding surface) and would make the installation more secure (not that the window is going to fly out this way, but the less movement and the more bedding surface the fewer leaks). OTOH, as you say, it has lasted this long, so you could probably get away with just putting it back as-is. I don't think I would drill new holes in the window; I can't see your window, but aluminum is not terribly strong, and that would probably put the holes very close to the edge of the window (unless I'm missing something in the description).

I think it's one of those jobs that, while it would certainly be easy with two people, one person could do it with a bit of a plan.

On the small window, I think you do need the backframe gasket, and I don't think butyl would work. That's because the gasket wraps around into the exposed area and is what seals the bottom and sides of the window when you open and close it (presuming you have this style of Hehr jalousie). It's the black rubber gasket you can see in the second photo.


Attachment 28512



Attachment 28513


Now if only we could see what you are doing

Thanks. i will bring the putty tape i have by a window place to see if they have any and/or if mine is the correct kind. i'm 90% sure it is b/c of it's location/purpose in the store but i will do the stretch test to see. i dont hve the energy to do this, especially looking everywhere. (especially tiring is explaining what i want and that NO, it would not be in the tape aisle with all the other tape) So, definately no energy for fiberglassing. It's held for 30 years, it will hold for another. I'd post a pic but it sounds like you know what i mean. the goal is to finish today. I will trust donna's duct tape solution. I've done a lot with a stack of phone books filling in as a person. Duct tape and phone books are always available when you need them! I'm not doing the side window now, but i'll check the gasket. (no energy and it's so small that i can just tape a bag over it if it's raining) It had old silicone caulking on it from a PO that i removed. i'm going to peel off a rope of that mysterious, possibly butyl tape and wedge it around the outside edge where the silicone was b/c there is a gap there. a quick fix that could work. if not no big deal b/c i'm not dealing with that window until fall anyway. i did notice that the grey trim around the actual glass seems to have shrunk, doesnt fill in the corners and has a 1 inch gap at the top. first things first though..........

[Raya]

cyndi,

It sounds like what you have is more like what we used to know as "Mortite," that you can use to fill drafty gaps around windows in old houses. If so, it will "tear" as you stretch it and not stretch out long and elasticy, like butyl does.

I have not found any local places that have butyl tape, as it is becoming a bit old fashioned (tried RV places, glass places, "good" hardware store, and Home Depot type place). Your area may be different. But, if not, Vintage Trailer Supply, and many other online RV places have the Butyl tape. It may be called "Tremco" tape, or "Tacky" tape, or "Parr" tape. But it will say that it is butyl tape.

On that small Hehr - the grey small trim outlining the rounded part of the window is important, but it's not like the main sealing gasket. It's also very available and easy to replace. It's called "Hehr Standard Glass seal" and you can find it on this page:

http://www.vintagetrailersupply.com/...asket_s/26.htm

This is what it looks like old:





The bead itself:





And new (in a larger window but same style):





If you are not in an energetic, "do it right" mood, I might suggest using 3M's 225 Weather Resistant Masking Tape. It looks a bit like duct tape but is different. You can make a small "hood/shingle" over the top or sides of the window (or a leaky rivet or etc.) with one strip of tape, and it will stay on but not "weld" on for some time outside (unlike duct or blue tape that *do* weld on). I find it to be a good temporary fix that is not so hard to undo that the job never gets done right. I do understand your mood though; sometimes it all just seems like too much bother. I try not to do big projects when I'm in that mood, and instead break out the 225 until I have the time/weather/mood

Here is a photo of the 3M 225 (I use the wider, 2" though):

[cyndi H]

[quote]cyndi,

It sounds like what you have is more like what we used to know as "Mortite," that you can use to fill drafty gaps around windows in old houses. If so, it will "tear" as you stretch it and not stretch out long and elasticy, like butyl does.

I have not found any local places that have butyl tape, as it is becoming a bit old fashioned (tried RV places, glass places, "good" hardware store, and Home Depot type place). Your area may be different. But, if not, Vintage Trailer Supply, and many other online RV places have the Butyl tape. It may be called "Tremco" tape, or "Tacky" tape, or "Parr" tape. But it will say that it is butyl tape.

On that small Hehr - the grey small trim outlining the rounded part of the window is important, but it's not like the main sealing gasket. It's also very available and easy to replace. It's called "Hehr Standard Glass seal" and you can find it on this page:

http://www.vintagetrailersupply.com/...asket_s/26.htm

This is what it looks like old:


Attachment 28528


The bead itself:


Attachment 28529


And new (in a larger window but same style):


Attachment 28530


If you are not in an energetic, "do it right" mood, I might suggest using 3M's 225 Weather Resistant Masking Tape. It looks a bit like duct tape but is different. You can make a small "hood/shingle" over the top or sides of the window (or a leaky rivet or etc.) with one strip of tape, and it will stay on but not "weld" on for some time outside (unlike duct or blue tape that *do* weld on). I find it to be a good temporary fix that is not so hard to undo that the job never gets done right. I do understand your mood though; sometimes it all just seems like too much bother. I try not to do big projects when I'm in that mood, and instead break out the 225 until I have the time/weather/mood

Here is a photo of the 3M 225 (I use the wider, 2" though):


Attachment 28527

Awesome!!!!!! Thanks. it is most likely that i will drive out to the rv place tomorrow. today is a dead day so i'll force myself to clean it up and get it ready at least.

[cyndi H]

Awesome!!!!!! Thanks. it is most likely that i will drive out to the rv place tomorrow. today is a dead day so i'll force myself to clean it up and get it ready at least.

so its all cleaned off now, and will hopefully be put on today when i get the new wood. i saw the gasket you mentioned and want to order it but i dont see the rubber gasket that you said is the most important. am i blind? the grey weather seal on my jalousie windows is also pretty old so i may as well replace it. do you reccomend any of the ones on the page? what about the fuzzy weather stripping for the sides? Overkill? (we do have cold winters though) I cant get a good profile of the gasket on mine w/o taking it right out which im not ready to do yet. i tried yesterday but it just broke in 1/2. I want to just put in one order. Fyi- you were right, that was the wrong putty and i ended up getting a big roll at the rv store. thanks a bunch

[Raya]

Hi cyndi,

Well, you sound refreshed today. Here is a photo and link to the backframe gasket that goes around the sides and bottom of the small Hehr jalousies - between the main frame and the outside shell of the camper.

http://www.vintagetrailersupply.com/Hehr_S..._p/vts-199x.htm





The one drawback is that you have to buy a lot, and it is not cheap. On the other hand, I'm sure you could sell the extra. I've just been on the verge of ordering it, along with some of the other seals, and I was figuring I would put my extras here in the classifieds.

As far as any of the other seals (besides the backframe and the glass seal), I am not sure about which ones fit which windows. I'm also not as sure they are all the same. If I were you I would check the web sites of the following, and perhaps give them a call/send a photo/dimensions, etc. I agree that it can be hard to discern the profile of some of the smaller seals without removing them, but then you are hoping you find them...

www.vintagetrailersupply.com
www.interstatemetals.com
www.pellandent.com

Also, if you are working on the small Hehrs, note that VTS has the small plastic glider for the tip of the operator arm (and, indeed, the whole arm, if I'm not mistaken). They also have operators for the dinette window (I'm not sure they will fit all Bolers, but they say they have fit Boler windows).

Good on you for finding the butyl tape It's good stuff.

Raya