Charging AGM battery - Fiberglass RV


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Old 02-03-2018, 08:18 PM   #1
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Charging AGM battery

as some of you know i been working on my Battery and solar set up.

I purchase a renorgy 200 ah AGM battery .
https://www.renogy.com/renogy-deep-c...12-volt-200ah/

I will have a 100 watt solar panel on roof and another 100watt suit case with a renorgy 30 amp adventure controller with battery temp sensor . I have confirmed the controller will work well with the battery.

I also have a honda 2000 as back up.

My converter in the casita is a parlallax 7300 I think it s 45 amp but is under cover right now so i cant check

I dint want to replace it , but the more i read about this converter maybe i should replace it.

After doing some research it seems that some have chose the progressive Dynamics 4600 with charge wizard , this seems to be a direct bolt in the lower section of control panel, they say the wizard has a equalization mode , I thought AGM should not be charged that way?
Inteli-Power 4600 Series models can recharge the battery to 90% in 3-6 hours using our patented Charge Wizard technology:
  • BOOST Mode 14.4 Volts – Rapidly brings RV battery up to 90% of full charge.
  • NORMAL Mode 13.6 Volts – Safely completes the charge.
  • STORAGE Mode 13.2 Volts – Maintains charge with minimal gassing or water loss.
  • EQUALIZATION Mode 14.4 Volts – Every 21 hours for a period of 15 minutes prevents battery stratification
    & sulfation – the leading cause of battery failure.

what would be the best converter for agm?
what will happen if i use my current converter?
My solar should do most of the power, but i like to be able to plug in without cooking my amg for a week if I had to. I was thinking of putting a switch it to shut down charging of the agm

My battery info
cycle use 14.4-15V
Float use 13.5-13.8
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Old 02-03-2018, 10:04 PM   #2
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I have been using a PD 4600 series converter with 2 6v Lifeline AGM batteries for 18 months and to the best of my knowledge it hasn’t harmed the batteries in any way. I am very happy with both the Progressive Dynamics unit as well as the batteries. Before using the PD, I asked and was told by a Lifeline technician that it shouldn’t cause any problems with their batteries.
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Old 02-03-2018, 11:41 PM   #3
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The PD converter will probably work fine with your AGM battery. You don't have more than one, so equalization isn't used.

Randy at Bestconverter.com recommends the Boondocker charger for AGM batteries, although the PD has similar charging voltages. Maybe give him a call and ask which charger he recommends and why.
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Old 02-04-2018, 06:42 AM   #4
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The PD converter will probably work fine with your AGM battery. You don't have more than one, so equalization isn't used.

Randy at Bestconverter.com recommends the Boondocker charger for AGM batteries, although the PD has similar charging voltages. Maybe give him a call and ask which charger he recommends and why.

it the specs is says
EQUALIZATION Mode 14.4 Volts – Every 21 hours for a period of 15 minutes prevents battery stratification
& sulfation – the leading cause of battery failure.

You saying this would not be used if you only have one battery?
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Old 02-04-2018, 09:51 AM   #5
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PD products are the best. I have always used the 9100/9200 series on AGMs with no problem. Now that LiPo are coming out, PD has a charge converter for them also.
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Old 02-04-2018, 09:53 AM   #6
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Also, you might want to checkout FullRiver DC series. They have a lot of info and specs on their site. Great batteries! Good price!
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Old 02-04-2018, 10:17 AM   #7
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AGM Battery

Equalizing a battery is not related to equlizing two batteries. Equalizing removes the sulfate from one or more batteries not making two batteries the same.
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Old 02-04-2018, 10:37 AM   #8
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AGM batteries charge differently from flooded wet cell batteries. If you have a setting on your charge converter and solar controller for sealed batteries, use that setting. There is no need to have an equalizing or sulfation mode with AGM. If you have a Charge Wizard on your charge converter like a PD9200 series, disable it as it is not necessary for AGM batteries.
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Old 02-04-2018, 01:57 PM   #9
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AGM batteries charge differently from flooded wet cell batteries. If you have a setting on your charge converter and solar controller for sealed batteries, use that setting. There is no need to have an equalizing or sulfation mode with AGM. If you have a Charge Wizard on your charge converter like a PD9200 series, disable it as it is not necessary for AGM batteries.

How can you turn off the equalizing on the pd9200
I down load the Manuel and thi sis all i can find about the subject
The INTELI-
POWER 9200 series converters have the Charge Wizard controlled charging module built in.
Th
e Charge Wizard is a microprocessor
-controlled device incorporated in Progressive Dynamics 9200 Series Inteli
-
Power Converters. It constantly monitors the RV battery, and then automatically adjusts the converter output
voltage based on its charge status.
The Charge Wizard has four (4) operating Modes (BOOST, NORMAL,
STORAGE and EQUALIZE). Each Mode is automatically selected by the Charge Wizard and ensures a fast yet
safe recharge for your RV battery
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Old 02-04-2018, 02:07 PM   #10
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AGM = Absorbent Glass Mat

Had to do a google search but finally found what AGM stands for: Absorbent Glass Mat
A good writer will always spell out the name before reverting to abbreviations.

So, for all practical purposes; it is a sealed battery that won't leak.
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Old 02-04-2018, 02:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Ron View Post
Equalizing a battery is not related to equlizing two batteries. Equalizing removes the sulfate from one or more batteries not making two batteries the same.
Not quite. Desulfation and equalization are not the same, although they can both have the same desulfation effect. Desulfation uses frequency pulses to break up and dislodge sulfate or prevent it from building up. Equalization on the other hand is a deliberate overcharge intended to accomplish the same thing by raising the voltage and gassing the electrolyte.

You don't want to equalize a single battery per se if you can help it, because the equalization cycle can actually damage the battery, and increase the frequency of adding electrolyte. Equalization of a battery array however helps insure that all batteries in the array are charged to the same level. You can desulfate a single battery however (provided your charger has a desulfation cycle) without any potential damage. True desulfation is harmless, while equalization is not. The part that can be confusing is, equalization can also have the effect of desulfation. Adding to the confusion is the fact that many chargers have true desulfation while others only have equalization.

Regarding AGMs, desulfation is kind of a moot point, because they are less susceptible to sulfation than wet cells. The important element in charging an AGM is a constant and adequate charging voltage.
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Old 02-04-2018, 03:17 PM   #12
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Batteries

A good AGM battery should be equalized. Some AGM batteries have light weight connections inside. Do what the manufacture recomends.
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Old 02-04-2018, 03:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Ron View Post
A good AGM battery should be equalized. Some AGM batteries have light weight connections inside. Do what the manufacture recomends.
I completely agree that you should follow the manufacturer recommendation. In most cases, if the OCV drops below spec, it's a sign of sulfation. However, I still prefer desulfation using pulse technology vs an overcharge to remove it.
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Old 02-04-2018, 03:48 PM   #14
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Charging AGM battery

Newyorkhillbilly. It used to be with 9100 series to just unplug the pendant and it wouldn’t run the desulfation program. To the best of my knowledge there is a way to disable this program on the 9200 series with the built in CW. I can’t remember how right now but I think it may have a small dip switch located just inside the metal grille. A call to PDs service department would determine for sure.
As any quality charge converter or bi directional inverter charger such as Magnum makes, they all have a battery type usually showing as flooded or sealed. I can’t see PD being any different.
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Old 02-04-2018, 04:10 PM   #15
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The "knowledge" section of the Lifeline Battery website indicates that their deep cycle AGM batteries do benefit from an equalization cycle. Their narrative is long and detailed but here are a few pertinent selections:

QUOTE: Can I equalize AGM batteries? The short answer is Yes! ....all lead acid batteries sulfate. This is a natural occurrence every time you discharge. ....Wet Cell, GEL and AGM batteries are all lead acid batteries ...Our batteries should be equalized at 15.5-16.3 volts for 6-8 hours...You must perform an equalizing charge after you have gone through a regular charge first and the batteries have reached float charge. END QUOTE

The user instructions from Trojan for their deep cycle AGMs are short and clear:


QUOTE: AGM Batteries do not have free flowing electrolyte and therefore do not experience stratification.
As a result, AGM Batteries do not require equalizing.

WARNING: Do not equalize deep-cycle AGM batteries. END QUOTE



I've probably missed something here but on the surface this is confusingly conflicting information on how to care for an AGM.

I have a PD-9100 converter with PD's plug-in Charge Wizard which automatically provides an equalization cycle. Without intervention by the Wizard, I believe the converter will simply maintain a charging voltage and not drop to a float voltage when the battery is fully charged.

AGM batteries are apparently sensitive to over-charging so if I go with a Trojan and follow their advice by unplugging the Wizard to avoid equalization, I risk over-charging (though the Wizard's equalization cycle may be brief enough to be a non-issue - a Trojan engineer did inform me that the episodic nature of "over-charging" by the TV while traveling would likely not be a significant problem).

If I go with a Lifeline battery and and leave the Wizard in place, the Charge Wizard's equalization cycle of 14.4 V for 15 minutes (every 21 hours) is inadequate to satisfy the Lifeline spec of 15.5-16.3 volts.

My scamp needs a battery replacement and I've been considering an AGM but now I'm not so sure. Maybe I'm over-thinking it - long Vermont winters and the internet do encourage such excess.
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Old 02-04-2018, 04:59 PM   #16
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The answer is somewhere in between most likely. In this case, I would go with the battery manufacturer recommendations for that specific battery. A big issue is that most chargers don't have the capability to charge an AGM battery at the manufacturer recommended voltage, regardless of which cycle you're talking about.

I will tell you this: I've used AGM batteries in all sorts of applications since the 1980s. I've never had sulfation in any of them ever. Of course, that is not to say that it isn't technically possible - I've just not had it happen. That's my issue with Lifeline saying you should equalize when the OCV drops. Their AGMs experience sulfation without a liquid electrolyte? Perhaps they are anticipating that because they know most chargers will provide inadequate charging voltage?

Every AGM I've ever had kept it's OCV consistent pretty much through it's entire life cycle. When they fail, they fail quick - usually around 10 years.
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Old 02-04-2018, 05:26 PM   #17
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I would recommend looking at FullRiver's website. Very good products and tech / charging specs. The DC series is the best line for RV use.
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Old 02-04-2018, 05:26 PM   #18
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Newyorkhillbilly. It used to be with 9100 series to just unplug the pendant and it wouldn’t run the desulfation program. To the best of my knowledge there is a way to disable this program on the 9200 series with the built in CW. I can’t remember how right now but I think it may have a small dip switch located just inside the metal grille. A call to PDs service department would determine for sure.
As any quality charge converter or bi directional inverter charger such as Magnum makes, they all have a battery type usually showing as flooded or sealed. I can’t see PD being any different.

thanks I give them a call
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Old 02-04-2018, 05:41 PM   #19
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The "knowledge" section of the Lifeline Battery website indicates that their deep cycle AGM batteries do benefit from an equalization cycle. Their narrative is long and detailed but here are a few pertinent selections:

QUOTE: Can I equalize AGM batteries? The short answer is Yes! ....all lead acid batteries sulfate. This is a natural occurrence every time you discharge. ....Wet Cell, GEL and AGM batteries are all lead acid batteries ...Our batteries should be equalized at 15.5-16.3 volts for 6-8 hours...You must perform an equalizing charge after you have gone through a regular charge first and the batteries have reached float charge. END QUOTE

The user instructions from Trojan for their deep cycle AGMs are short and clear:


QUOTE: AGM Batteries do not have free flowing electrolyte and therefore do not experience stratification.
As a result, AGM Batteries do not require equalizing.

WARNING: Do not equalize deep-cycle AGM batteries. END QUOTE



I've probably missed something here but on the surface this is confusingly conflicting information on how to care for an AGM.

I have a PD-9100 converter with PD's plug-in Charge Wizard which automatically provides an equalization cycle. Without intervention by the Wizard, I believe the converter will simply maintain a charging voltage and not drop to a float voltage when the battery is fully charged.

AGM batteries are apparently sensitive to over-charging so if I go with a Trojan and follow their advice by unplugging the Wizard to avoid equalization, I risk over-charging (though the Wizard's equalization cycle may be brief enough to be a non-issue - a Trojan engineer did inform me that the episodic nature of "over-charging" by the TV while traveling would likely not be a significant problem).

If I go with a Lifeline battery and and leave the Wizard in place, the Charge Wizard's equalization cycle of 14.4 V for 15 minutes (every 21 hours) is inadequate to satisfy the Lifeline spec of 15.5-16.3 volts.

My scamp needs a battery replacement and I've been considering an AGM but now I'm not so sure. Maybe I'm over-thinking it - long Vermont winters and the internet do encourage such excess.

In my search i did find this response from Progressive Dynamics 9200


Equalization when applied in the conventional sense to LA battery chargers, means up to 15.5 volts for a period often exceeding an hour.
The equalization cycle that we use is mild, 14.4 volts for 15 minutes every 21 hours when in storage mode. This has been proven to be good at reducing sulfation in the Lead Acid Wet batteries. It also has no effect on AGM .
We have been reassured by AGM manufacturers that the profile we use is good for AGM batteries.

David Watson
Service Department Supervisor
Progressive Dynamics
269-781-4241 ext.143
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Old 02-04-2018, 05:45 PM   #20
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That is what I would go with. Sounds good.
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