Converting a 5'er to a bumper pull

[Earl E. November]

Somewhere I think I saw a thread on it, but can't find it.

What I would like to do is make a "Bolt on" adapter to convert to a bumper pull..

You ask "Why?"

Trying to back it with the hitch ball directly over the differential is difficult at best. In confined areas, nearly impossible.

Presently I am thinking a post with a bolt on plate dropping down from the existing hitch, Possibly braced back to the frame? All bolted.

Certainly someone has done it and can relate tails of woe or misfortune, or hopefully, glowing success, and eternal bliss.

Side benny would be to reclaim the pickup box.

[Darwin Maring]

For around $6,000 USD you can purchase a dolly to do this.

[Earl E. November]

Well that's helpful..

[cpaharley2008]

you could always make one like here

[Earl E. November]

Well I guess I am still looking.

[Roy in TO]

Originally Posted by Earl E. November

Trying to back it with the hitch ball directly over the differential is difficult at best. In confined areas, nearly impossible.

If that is your major concern (parking), you could have an elevated ball made to fit a regular receiver. That is for occasional use at low speeds.

More finite control could be gained using a front receiver so you could drive it in. The front receiver could double for attaching other things like a bush guard, bike rack, or racks for ladders, canoes ...

Front Trailer Hitch - YouTube

I would not want to hang out the door like that to see where I was going. I'd use a spotter or rear view camera, which would be a front view camera in this case.

[Darwin Maring]

You could go to an empty parking lot some Sunday and practice backing up.

[Roy in TO]

Originally Posted by Darwin Maring

You could ... practice backing up.

A little humour on the topic of backing up.
A little ditty on "Backing up is hard to do" based on the song "Breaking up is hard to do".

Backing Up Is Hard To Do (Redux) - YouTube

[rabbit]

I can't imagine how maneuvering in reverse with a bumper hitch can possibly be easier than doing the same with a tractor-trailer or inbed fifth wheel. What am I missing? Is it the characteristics of your rear axle and diffy that make it difficult? My wife thinks I can put a big kink in a bumper hitch lashup and "now straiten it up!" without pulling forward. Unless I mistake, her views of how things work would prevail with a 5er.
jack

[Greg H]

I'm with Darwin and Rabbit.

[Earl E. November]

The problem is the hitch is centered directly over the center of the axle. not 4' in back of as in a moment arm...
Consequently the only way to get it to turn is get the front of the vehicle grossly out of position and "Push" the hitch, there is no reverse movment via pivoting.
Believe me front end movemnt of the tug is sever next to that of a bumper hitch.
On a straight push that is good, on maneuvering tight corners and near obstacle such as a wall or fence, it gets to be near impossible.

That is why genuine fifth wheels use slider hitches to get the pivot point away from the tugs rear axle.

[Greg H]

Maybe, but the only time I've seen sliding fifth wheel hitches is in short bed trucks. I pulled my 31' fifth wheel with a 3500 ram with 4 doors and a long bed without any issues, I also drove a semi for 23 years so I had plenty of practice.

[rabbit]

I've never backed up anything but bumper hitch so I'm learning. Is it the case that the pivot point for a tractor trailer is in front of the axle? Is the pivot point of an inbed hitch behind the axle? If you get the two exactly coincident vertically, does that mean you can't turn the steering wheel or tires scrub or what?

[rabbit]

I checked out some internet discussions of the trials and tribs of 5th wheelers. The major thought there was that short box pickups needed at least a manual slider to get cab corner/trailer corner clearance in jacknife turn situations, which I'm thinking backing into a driveway from a narrow street demands. All I know is I can get a little 17' trailer into the "mouth" of a narrow driveway. I can either leave the tug in the street and unhitch or I can back and fill until I get the tug strait with the driveway but I sure can't "now straiten it up!"

jack

[Roy in TO]

Originally Posted by rabbit

Is it the case that the pivot point for a tractor trailer is in front of the axle? Is the pivot point of an inbed hitch behind the axle? If you get the two exactly coincident vertically, does that mean you can't turn the steering wheel or tires scrub or what?

Ideally the pivot point is vertical over the axle.

I think that Earls problem is that in a confined space, the rear of the truck "swings" out too far one way or the front of the truck the other. I.e. you have to over steer to make a turn backwards.

I've watched many a truck back up, gradual corrections ahead of time is what works.

[Darwin Maring]

He said: That is why genuine fifth wheels use slider hitches to get the pivot point away from the tugs rear axle.

The slider hitches are used on short bed trucks to prevent the front part of the trailer from coming in contact with the truck cab.

Practicing in an empty parking lot will give a driver the practice they need in order to become familiar and to develop muscle memory.

The $6000 dolly that I posted has been discussed in the forum before.

I personally would not modify a 5th wheel to make it a tag along due to the engineering required in order to make it safe not to mention the cost. (Consider the anti sway and torsion bar requirements)

It may be more cost effective to just sell the 5r and purchase a longer tag along.

[Scouter Dave]

Sorry I can't help you on this one. I gave away my old Popular Mechanics Do It Yourself manuals and yearbooks last year when I moved. Somewhere in those old pages was a picture of a rig to take the pin and then tow the rig.
There was also a pic of a 5th. wheel attachment that fit on the roof of a sedan but, like the rig, I have never seen one in use.
Good luck with your quest.... D.

[Earl E. November]

Obviously there are those who can do it so I will plead guilty to not being the best backer on the road.. The parking lot has merit the $6000. dolly is out of the question.

My problem is not cab clearace, with the extended hitch on the 5'er, there is ample room or at least I have not had problems here.
The problem as I see it is the hitch while centered over the axle gives very little left right movement in relationship to the amount of steering from the front.
A bumper hitch being further extend gives considerable movement and better or at least more positive movement to use as steering.

So we can get back to the original question.. Has anyone got any experience in modifying a trailer in this manner? Not have you got any other solutions for me? Come on a roof mounted station wagon mount?? Really??

Well I guess it was a "modification" as opposed to "learn to drive" suggestions. and I believe this is a forum on "Modifications"

Being centered over the axle is great for towing and suspension, but the price is in backing.

If you are having difficulty seeing this make a paper doll out of a corn flakes box and play with it..
Put the hitch at the rear and back it up, the move the hitch (thumb tack) about 1/4 the way forward and see how much more left right movement is required to steer it.

[Lyndon Laney]

Yes it has been done by a friend of mine and a sucsesful mod { a very talented guy] I am a farmer and have backed almost everything and I will admit the %er is the hardest but works well with this method . when backing and you finf you have lost conth=rol simply turn your wheels the other way and pull ahead a foot or two Takes a lot of short moves. This mod is probaly available as they no longer use it.

[Doug Arthurs]

How about replace your tow vehicle with an old Chrysler Newport.