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Old 03-25-2014, 11:32 PM   #21
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I am nervous as a virgin on her wedding night. I have two more solar panels due in as early as Thursday. This will allow me to fully charge on an overcast day. We get a lot of those this time of year. I also orders an electric blanket which should be very nice and cozy.

I am getting the impression my used battery does not have the capacity is hoped for. I plan to run it down to nothing and measure its true capacity soon. I'll use the inverter to run the fridge. That will take it down to 10.4 volts and then I'm switching all night light bulbs back to incandescent to kill the last bit of charge. I'm guessing I have about half of the rated capacity in this battery. I'd be better off with a lighter battery the same size or a new battery.
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Old 03-26-2014, 04:06 AM   #22
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Conrad, are you going ac or dc on the blanket? if d, which one did you pick?
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Old 03-26-2014, 06:39 AM   #23
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Night Sailor, could you withdraw, say, 100 ah from your battery using the link pro to gage this. Then let the battery rest with no loads at all for several hours and then measure the voltage? That would give you the state of charge and by inference the battery's actual capacity.

Also, the peukert effect will skew your results unless you do your measured discharge at 11 amps.
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Old 03-26-2014, 06:45 AM   #24
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Conrad, are you going ac or dc on the blanket? if d, which one did you pick?

Biddeford Heated Plush Queen Blanket (84 X 90)- Blue

It is an AC blanket.
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Old 03-26-2014, 08:11 AM   #25
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Night Sailor, could you withdraw, say, 100 ah from your battery using the link pro to gage this. Then let the battery rest with no loads at all for several hours and then measure the voltage? That would give you the state of charge and by inference the battery's actual capacity.

Also, the peukert effect will skew your results unless you do your measured discharge at 11 amps.


I read that Gel cell no load "cut off" voltage is 11.6v. The loaded "cut off" voltage is 10.4v. My battery is going below these cut off voltage's if I use 60ah at night, which is typical for me with the furnace and inverter running. My numbers are 11.4 and 10.2. My conclusion is I am killing this battery with these nightly 50-60 amp discharges.

I could plug in the shore power during this cold weather and keep the battery topped up until things warm up and my night time needs drop. If my night time needs drop to 25-30ah I could get some more life out of this battery.

I just started keeping records of voltage so I can't give you more info, but it seems the voltage is dropping more and more as time goes on.

What do you think? My guess is that this battery is about done in. I could possibly repurpose it as a starter battery for my rarely use generator (mounted on a small trailer). I have another charge controller and solar panel I could use to keep it topped up indefinitely. That seems like a better option than abusing it in my camper. I'll have to check to see if that charge controller has a gel cel option. I could make a voltage divider a regulator to drop the bias Voltage slightly and make that work.

Back to my camper. I had one 92.5ah discharge when I accidentally had the refrigerator on AC. I did not realize it was wired to the outlet circuit. A few nights back my inverter cut off due to a low-voltage situation--the door blew open and my furnace was working hard while I was in the house. I decided to see if the battery could handle it. Perhaps I should've plugged in my shore power connection that night. I didn't because I want to know if my battery will hold up.

In any event I have a good idea of what sort of battery capacity I need 100 amp hours seems to be a minimum number if I want to use an electric blanket. So fo lead batteries I would need double that I AH rating...or more. My solar charging capability is pretty good. Once I have the two extra panels installed I should be able to recharge my night time loads easily.

Worried about this battery I have been researching other options.

I considered 100ah lithium battery. This would be a 130 lb weight savings. However, that might not be enough if I run an electric blanket--on medium that would be 60 watts, call it 5amps and 40 ah if I ran it all night.

Living without worries about energy use, I'll pick 100ah's as a design depth of discharge for my system. Whie lithium batteries can be depleted 90%, they don't perform well in cold weather--and I don't know way that means. They are wonderfully light but very costly.

Another option would be an 8d 270 ah AGM, weight savings 41 lbs. the AGM has more capacity and while gel cels have better cycle life, my experiences with them have sways been bad. The cost a lot and seem to die quickly. I would not have chosen this battery if it were not so cheap. I got it for $50.

My best bet would be two Master volt slim 200 ah batteries . Two of these would fit in my battery compartment--400ah at 238lbs. For a weight penalty of an additional 73 lbs, I could run a 25% depth of discharge ad these would last a long long time.

The nearest equivalent lithium that would fit in my battery compartment is a 300ah 8D size at three times the cost and 3/4 the capacity and 40% the weight ( weight savings 171 lbs). Wow!

If I used only one of the master volt batteries. My weight would decrease 46 lbs and my depth of discharge would be 50%, and much less in the summer. That seems like the best option if I need a new battery.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:00 PM   #26
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I found a chart that said for a gel battery 12.35v is 50% soc, 12.00 is 25% and 11.8 is 0%. From this web site http://www.energymatters.com.au/rene...-discharge.php. Note the battery has to "rest" at least four hours before taking the voltage measurement.

If you are going from full charge to 11.2v with 60 ah withdrawal then your battery has lost about 75% of its capacity.

If your design load is 100 ah/day with lots of solar capability to recharge even on a cloudy day I'd think a couple of 6v golf cart batteries (130# for the pair) would be a good choice. Trojan T105s are popular. I think I paid $135 each for mine at a golf cart shop. They are two years old and seem to still have full capacity. Have to check the water every few months though.
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Old 03-26-2014, 08:49 PM   #27
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6V 220 Ahr Golf cart batteries are available at Costco. Last year, in the fall, they were $69 each, for about a month.

If you ever come to Calgary, I can give you as many 74 Ahr group 24 batteries as you want. I have filled up all the storage space that I will use on batteries and I no longer go for the free ones that I can get.
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...ies-57818.html

I believe that they are MK brand:
MK Battery: HME Mobility Products

I suspect that there would be a source of these for free, in every city. It probably just depends on who you know.
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Old 03-27-2014, 12:12 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by MCDenny View Post
I found a chart that said for a gel battery 12.35v is 50% soc, 12.00 is 25% and 11.8 is 0%. From this web site http://www.energymatters.com.au/rene...-discharge.php. Note the battery has to "rest" at least four hours before taking the voltage measurement.

If you are going from full charge to 11.2v with 60 ah withdrawal then your battery has lost about 75% of its capacity.

If your design load is 100 ah/day with lots of solar capability to recharge even on a cloudy day I'd think a couple of 6v golf cart batteries (130# for the pair) would be a good choice. Trojan T105s are popular. I think I paid $135 each for mine at a golf cart shop. They are two years old and seem to still have full capacity. Have to check the water every few months though.

I agree with everything you say. I wish I could use the Trojan batteries. They are powerful, relatively light for their capacity. However, they would be impossible to maintain. My battery box is accessible from the outside it's about a 1' x 1' square in about 22 inches deep I would have to disconnect all the cables and remove both batteries just inspect the fluid level. Plus there is metal trim running around the outside and I'd have to extra care to see they did not short out when removing them. Way too much work for routine maintenance. While they make the best economic sense, I would strongly favor an AGM sealed battery because my experienced with gel cells have not be favorable. I lost $600 worth, (2) 4D batteries several years ago when a battery monitor blew to circuit boards in my charger. A Xantrex technician explained how it happened and it was not uncommon. In any event I do not eat to baby sit batteries unless it is easy as lifting a lid and adding water.

Sadly, while I can do more testing, my data suggest exactly what you stated. I feel I am full discharging this battery nightly. I'll be rigging up the shore power connection until I replace this battery. I plan to sleep on it. Perhaps I can rig a sliding drawer and longer cables to make access a bit easier.

On the plus side, my last two panels come in this afternoon. I hope to have then installed by the end of the day. On overcast days I'm pulling in 41-46ah, so I can expect not quite a 50% increase as there may be a bit if shading on these aft end panels. I can remove a vent hood to help with that, but I for plan to do that right away. A 50% increase would be an overcast production of 61-69ah which right about the high end of my power consumption o these cold nights. .
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Old 03-27-2014, 12:19 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by David Tilston View Post
6V 220 Ahr Golf cart batteries are available at Costco. Last year, in the fall, they were $69 each, for about a month.

If you ever come to Calgary, I can give you as many 74 Ahr group 24 batteries as you want. I have filled up all the storage space that I will use on batteries and I no longer go for the free ones that I can get.
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...ies-57818.html

I believe that they are MK brand:
MK Battery: HME Mobility Products

I suspect that there would be a source of these for free, in every city. It probably just depends on who you know.

Those are great prices. I would love some.. Heck, I'd love to see Calgary.


Excuse all the typos. I can't see what I type sometimes. It runs off the screen.

Why are they free? Are they take outs?
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Old 03-27-2014, 04:30 AM   #30
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I agree with everything you say. I wish I could use the Trojan batteries. They are powerful, relatively light for their capacity. However, they would be impossible to maintain. My battery box is accessible from the outside it's about a 1' x 1' square in about 22 inches deep I would have to disconnect all the cables and remove both batteries just inspect the fluid level. Plus there is metal trim running around the outside and I'd have to extra care to see they did not short out when removing them. Way too much work for routine maintenance.
These might work for you.
https://www.flow-rite.com/battery-wa...e-rv/qwik-fill
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:11 AM   #31
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AGMs are great if you can stand the initial cost. I've used Concorde Lifelines in my electric boats. Good service and great tech support from Concorde. When I ran one flat over the winter ( my fault ) Concorde lent me a special ($3000) charger to restore it. They even paid to freight!
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Old 03-27-2014, 10:06 AM   #32
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I've used the 6 volt version of these for 3 years now:

https://www.flow-rite.com/battery-watering/pro-fill

Works great, but it adds some cost.
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:59 PM   #33
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Those are great prices. I would love some.. Heck, I'd love to see Calgary.


Excuse all the typos. I can't see what I type sometimes. It runs off the screen.

Why are they free? Are they take outs?
As explained in the link, they are free, because my brother works at a place that both installs elevators, (his job) and does stair lifts, wheel chairs, and mobility scooters. I don't know all the situations that causes them to end up with batteries that they dispose of, but one scenario is that the owner of a scooter runs out of juice and calls my brothers employer. They send out a service tech with a new set of two batteries, and take the old set away. Since they don't sell used batteries, they toss them. I would go visit my brother, (he lives in his employers parking lot) and test the stack of batteries with a multimeter. Anything with a voltage over 12 VDC, I took. I very quickly ran out of room for any more.

I charged and then load tested all of them. They seem fine.

Since I feel kinda silly hording batteries, I will give one or two, possibly more to anyone who shows up at my place. But I will not ship them. Too much hassle.
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Old 03-27-2014, 09:10 PM   #34
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Way cool. I'll dig deeper and find out how it works.
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Old 03-27-2014, 09:18 PM   #35
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As explained in the link, they are free, because my brother works at a place that both installs elevators, (his job) and does stair lifts, wheel chairs, and mobility scooters. I don't know all the situations that causes them to end up with batteries that they dispose of, but one scenario is that the owner of a scooter runs out of juice and calls my brothers employer. They send out a service tech with a new set of two batteries, and take the old set away. Since they don't sell used batteries, they toss them. I would go visit my brother, (he lives in his employers parking lot) and test the stack of batteries with a multimeter. Anything with a voltage over 12 VDC, I took. I very quickly ran out of room for any more.

I charged and then load tested all of them. They seem fine.

Since I feel kinda silly hording batteries, I will give one or two, possibly more to anyone who shows up at my place. But I will not ship them. Too much hassle.

If I get out that way I'll take a few. I've been talking to my uncle about traveling to Alaska. Calgary would make a nice way point. He wants to go up that way one more time. His age is catching up with him. He and I have bonded in the last few years. We talk on the phone every day. He is one of my few relatives that is positive and encouraging. He offers helpful suggestions, posed in a modest way. He was a commercial fishermen so we have lots in common.

In any event , I wish he would get an Arab. He talks like he wants one but won't spend the money. Lately he has been asking about egg campers. I think he would like a Trillium or small
Boler.. Perhaps the two of is will show up at some point.
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Old 03-27-2014, 09:29 PM   #36
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With my fleet of Trilliums, he could get a good feel for what they are like. I have two that, when I am done playing with them, will be for sale. They are both older 1300's that need work, (play). In the not for sale catagory, I also have three middle age 4500's and a 1300 with a front quarter bathroom. I wouldn't recommend the quarter bath to anyone larger then a smurf. Good thing the daughter that gets that one fits.

You, and your father are welcome to spend a few nights in my driveway. My brother and mom come over every Friday for fire, pizza and beer, unless it is colder then -20 deg C. Then the fire is indoors. Come during Stampede, if that appeals to you. With five kids I can't guarantee quiet though. Especially on Friday.

PM me when you know.
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Old 03-27-2014, 09:39 PM   #37
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AGMs are great if you can stand the initial cost. I've used Concorde Lifelines in my electric boats. Good service and great tech support from Concorde. When I ran one flat over the winter ( my fault ) Concorde lent me a special ($3000) charger to restore it. They even paid to freight!

I like AGMs. I have a pair of 4D's in the big boat and after four years they are in perfect condition. I bet I get 10 years out of them. My previous gel cells were a huge disappointment. I'd like to carry four more--1200 Amp Hours would hold me through a storm with heavy use. Even one more pair would be nice.

One issue I have is the charger I have has an equalization cycle which could pose a problem. But my solar is working out so well, I could turn the breaker off on the charger if I plugged in. I had 20 amps coming off the panels today and recovered the 52 ah I used last night about 1:30. I switched on the inverter and powered the fridge with electricity for a couple of hours and topped it off again later in the day.

On a good day I am guessing I can produce 154 amp hours. With two more panels perhaps I'll see 230 ah--which makes a 400 amp hour battery bank appealing. I should be able to run done high load ham radios, and my fridge on AC even more.

My uncle thinks I should out a find generator on it next. Height be crazier than me. However, in 20 knots of wind on a 400+ Amp generator I could easily power of 336 W (through the inverter) refrigerator. The fridge draws 28 amps. I was taking in 20 from the solar panels and 9 from a batteries today. The extra two panels will be useable. Perhaps I can build a control circuit to switch AC power in when the batteries are full?

I started installing the last two panels today, while caulking another 1/3 of the roof with 1/3 to go.

I hooked up a new variable temperature control in my fridge and it does not seem to be freezing up on propane any more. That is a big improvement for me.

Finally, I have to design a platform otfvthe back to attach my scissor ladder. My ladder is one step too short. Everyone hates it, especially the dogs. A gold up platform gives them a place to sit when I open the door and I can reuse my scissor stairs.
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Old 03-27-2014, 10:06 PM   #38
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I am interested in this subject and thread, but the text is spread out about 3 screens worth. What is wrong with the formatting that made this happen? I am too lazy to scroll back and forth to read this. Oh well....
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Old 03-28-2014, 06:38 AM   #39
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Here is my battery status as if this morning.

Mar 28. Overcast. Rain due in pm
Previous day was sunny and battery fully charged by 1:30pm
0807:
-64.7ah nights energy consumption
-1.4a still discharging inverter on idle and furnace not running
11.88v. Battery voltage
74.5f battery temperature

Compared with two nights ago.

Mar 26 overcast
0755:
-61.7ah
-.5a,
11.3v with furnace off
10.2v with furnace on

I am going to change my battery capacity to 100 ah in the set up.
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Old 03-28-2014, 06:39 AM   #40
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I am interested in this subject and thread, but the text is spread out about 3 screens worth. What is wrong with the formatting that made this happen? I am too lazy to scroll back and forth to read this. Oh well....
Russ

I'll edit it down.
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