New Scamp 13 options regarding weight

[JessicaJ]

My husband and I are getting ready to put an order in for a standard Scamp 13' this Monday. We need it to be as lightweight as possible so we are ordering it without any of the upper cabinets, except of course the center supporting ones and are looking at other ways to keep the lbs stripped down.

My question is: Should we just keep the upper cabinets in the order and then deinstall and sell them since the salesperson has told us that we can't get any discount for not getting them? Has anyone else done this or experience this pricing structure? I guess the idea is we are getting the "package," which is only like $50 bucks more than the basic model so we can't get any discounts off the package.

Is there anything else that can be left off to save weight? We want AC but are considering a portable unit so that we can transport it in our car, and only during the summer when necessary. Any thoughts on alternative AC?

Lastly, are there any groups out there or forums that concern themselves primarily with going maxium ultra-light in terms of packing and gear (not backpacking though)?

[Lynn Eberhardt]

The upper cabinets don't weigh enough to be concerned about and they are riveted in, making removal problematic. Just use them to store bulky lightweights like napkins, tp, and potato chips.

[floyd]

Keep the cabinets, get the icebox, delete the stove. stick to the small battery, you won't want the Propane tank or electric water pump or an attached gray water tank.
Keep the sink with the hand pump and the fresh water tank.

Travel with only a couple of gallons of water.
No Awning no A/C... delete the Escape hatch but get the fantastic fan.

[gordon2]

My experience with deleting some things when I ordered my Scamp was that for those things where they will not reduce the price, they will give you the parts not installed. I got the waste hose tube, curtains and curtain rod holders all in a big box when I picked up the camper. So, ask for any non-optional cabinets or other items in a box if you dont get a credit. The next owner, or you when you upgrade your tow vehicle, will likely want them. (And I do suspect you will upgrade your tow vehicle if you are so concerned about weight that you are leaving out the lightweight cabinets).

[bact2387]

The salesperson sent you a price list.
Simply order a Scamp standard at base price with no options.
Standard with no options equals lowest weight.

[JessicaJ]

Thanks for all the feedback. It is really helpful to know that the cabinets are riveted in and that we can get all of these items provided in a box. I plan to take all of the cabinet doors off and store them until we upgrade. I also plan to remove the upper bunk cushion, back, and stanchions for the bunk.

There is really so much discussion about Scamp 13s and the 1500 lb threshold that we have been waffling considerably from apples to oranges when it comes to picking a camper. I wonder if we will get back to the happy place where we were enjoying the shopping and looking.

My husband was excited at the possibility of joining a large community of people dedicated to a specific model (Like Scamp Owners International), however I can't help but feel like we will always get sidelong glances with a CRV and this trailer if we get it and maybe all we can manage is a ProLite, and whatever comes with that hybrid.

[rdickens]

Jessica,

We towed a minimalist Scamp13 Layout 1 (with the bigger 54" bed) with a Honda CRV and we did fine. You are asking the right questions, so I'm pretty sure you will also be fine. Pix of our Scamp13 are in the following Google Drive folder.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?...CAYZjsemPLIDz6

Although the basic shape of a Scamp isn't too bad, remember to consider aerodynamic drag in addition to weight. If your CRV has a roof rack, you might consider some kind of inexpensive homemade wind deflector near the rear of your CRV and/or adding a few inches of lower front air dam to clean up the airflow across the bottom of the trailer. Awnings and top-mounted A.C. obviously add both weight and aerodynamic drag. You should also ask Scamp to NOT mount that stinky/slinky tube to the front of your trailer.

Definitely keep all of the lightweight interior cabinets that you can get. We actually did get the refrigerator (instead of an icebox) and the stove (although I know that Floyd often uses a small butane stove [but you could choose a portable propane stove]. Splurge a bit on electrical (110v & 12v) outlets inside (and 110v outside?) and additional interior lights (quickly converted to LED bulbs). Use a small ceramic space heater instead of a furnace. Instead of the glued-down carpeting, get the vinyl flooring and add some removable throw rugs for comfort and easier clean up.

A 20 lb propane tank, full of propane, weighs around 40 lbs. A full (tall & slender) 11 lb propane tank weighs just over half as much and should fit into the same mounting bracket.

On the 5% of trips where we really do need A.C. to be comfortable, we found that a 5000 BTU Frigidaire window unit fits in the back sliding rear window opening and it cools both Scamp13s and Scamp16s more than adequately. If you construct the mount properly, it shouldn't leak in the rain and it hopefully won't cause any damage to your trailer. The mount we use can be seen in the following Google Drive folder.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?...FNexea1LuxC_4L

Scamp uses some heavier wood (MDF/chipboard) components for the table, filler-board, hatch covers, and sofa back. Using composite construction techniques, you can create much lighter weight (and still serviceable) components. Whether you use fiberglass screening on the EPS/XPS foam or use 1/8"-1/4" plywood for the tensile/compression strength may depend on the piece size and weight-bearing requirements. You might consider the following tutorial as a starting point for learning the composite construction technique.

https://youtu.be/ucf2FVIdr1Q

Remember to add a transmission oil cooler to your CRV, consider the recommendation to use the D3 button for locking out the highest transmission gear, and tow at closer to a 55 to 60 mph speed.

Do your best to relax and enjoy both the trailer configuration process and the subsequent camping fun.

Best of luck to you!

Ray

[JessicaJ]

Wow Ray!


Thanks for all of the information and links. I'm going to go through this with a fine tooth comb. You've pointed out extra items (like the tube) I wasn't aware of. While your email is super encouraging and fits the narrative I want, ha ha, I will continue to proceed with caution.

Regarding fabricating things, I'm pretty handy since my field is architecture and have been building stuff for years, so I'm looking forward to making modifications.



My weakest area is electrical. Just don't understand it very well conceptually.



That said, I love how technical and detailed people can get with their trailers and on this forum. I'm looking forward to using this hobby to develop my knowledge.


Thanks again!

[RogerDat]

Don't forget items in the vehicle count against the gross vehicle weight limit as does the hitch weight. Having the camper lighter but piling the weight inside won't be all that much of an improvement.

Appliances add weight so the suggestion of icebox instead of fridge is a good one. Heck we mostly use ours as a cupboard anyway. Like to keep food in vehicle, if bear wants a snack I would just as soon it not be found in my bedroom.

I would keep the storage, the total weight of the small overhead FG shelving is more than offset by the extra strength from the bracing the shelves provide and convenience of storage. Much better to have them than not.

Smaller propane tank is saving some real weight, as is smaller battery. Not sure how much no stove saves in weight, check out Amazon for drop in replacements, should find shipping weight a good approximation. I doubt the weight is significant and if you have to carry a stove to replace it you don't even save 100% of the weight removed.

Hand pump sink, smaller water supply, will not only save weight of on demand water pump and city water hook up but also remove a prime reason for needing a larger battery. As will not having a furnace. They don't work without 12 volt so to run one through the night one needs a larger battery than one can get away with for just lights and charging phone/tablet/hot spot.

AC is heavy, not having it in the south would make the camper unsellable. Also in the desert southwest it would I imagine be almost mandatory during certain times of year. Power roof vent would probably be sufficient for most uses but not comfortable for all. Consider reversible roof vent to use as ceiling fan if no AC.

Order with trailer brakes, if the vehicle is close to towing limit the ability of vehicle to stop the additional trailer weight especially in challenging circumstances such as downhill is suspect. It does make the camper a lot more enjoyable to tow. My Escape V6 stops faster towing the scamp 13 with brakes than it does without the trailer.

The couch back / upper bunk is a toss up. The front couch is large enough with the back off for an adult to sleep there, When brother in law and myself camp one of us sleeps there. Sitting without a back rest is uncomfortable if done for any length of time. Bomb shelter living condition tests found that after as few as three days soldiers were having back aches from having to sit on folding stools or benches without backs.

Speed matters, a lot. There are people who have towed a Scamp 16 all around the country with a an older stick shift Honda CRV. They take their time, travel mostly back roads at lower speeds, tend to do shorter daily runs. Driving 12 hours non-stop at 65 mph is a lot more stress than 5 hours at 55 mph.

Don't forget to factor in gear as part of the total weight equation. In many cases the weight savings there will greatly exceed tossing something basic off the camper build. Not sure how much less a tarp and poles weighs compared to an awning or stove and fuel against having one built in. Gallon of Coleman fuel is probably close to weight of built in stove.

Resale value isn't a primary concern but should be on your radar. Remove things like a stove and it will shrink your market. Most folks expect the kitchen will have a stove. These things last for decades so some consideration of value down the road is worth considering.

I would ask Scamp that wires and propane lines be run for items you decide to leave off the build. Things such as furnace, refrigerator, or stove. The weight of the wire and little bit of copper line with a cap is insignificant, getting into cabinet to install them at some point in the future? Painful and difficult.

If your weight is so close to limit that you have to toss "normal" items off the build that might be an indication one is cutting it too close to the limit for the tow vehicle.

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by RogerDat

Appliances add weight so the suggestion of icebox instead of fridge is a good one.

Ice is not weightless.

[rdickens]

Jessica,

Glad to help!

BTW - My other strong recommendation would be to try to attend an FGRV rally and/or to visit the Scamp factory. You could call Wayne Pitlick at Scamp and ask about a "samples kit" (samples of curtain material, cushion material, & vinyl flooring) and ask about a factory tour.

Most FGRV rallies (at least prior to CoVid19) usually have an "open house day" where many owners will allow you to look at their trailer, mods, tow vehicle, etc. Most will happily share all sorts information and experiences. (To attend, you could buy/borrow a tent, stay at a nearby motel, or maybe rent a primitive cabin (if the rally park has them).

IMHO - Actually stepping inside a Scamp13 would be so very helpful!

Instead of an awning, you might consider a CLAM screen room/ tent for outdoor living space (Amazon.com and some big box stores).

https://youtu.be/6qHSO18qK18


I rarely disagree with Floyd about anything (he's a really good and knowledgeable guy) but, you should be aware that some national parks have strict rules about gray water and possibly might require a gray water tank (you should check requirements for places you intend to visit).

Best of luck to you!

Ray

[stevebaz]

Just remember that weight taken out of the trailer and added to the tow vehicle doesnt work very well. the car has the same limiting factors as the tow rating. you just cant move 500 lbs from here to there and be OK.

[JessicaJ]

Roger, Glenn and Ray,


Thanks for the continued input. You and everyone else here have sold me on keeping the rear cabinet, especially for structural reasons (though I'm not sure it helps as much where the curves on the fiberglass are the most compound.

We intend to get a refrigerator. Ice in a box sounds like the kind of nuisance we're ready to give up. If we can't have a fridge, geez, we should go a whole different route. Manual pump water makes sense. We're also giving up the grey water tank and will tow with it all empty.

I really like the idea of 11 lb propane and a fancy lightweight battery. With the Scamp R-Value of 15, I feel better having an electric heater than a propane one and have noted 12v is required.

I might look at an induction cooktop and what kind of electricity is required and if that gives weight savings (betting it doesn't).

What else... will keep in mind AC for resale. We might just have the trailer long enough that we upgrade to a top mount rather than portable when we eventually upgrade or tow vehicle. If not, we could install a refurbished AC for resale.

I've designed and built tents before and feel confident I can come up with something lighter weight than the manufacturer's awning.


Oh, and I'll ask about a sample kit.



Question, any idea what the "designer paper is about" is that an alternative to marine carpeting?


So much to think about...

[Glenn Baglo]

Scamp R-value is more like 1.5 and you need 120VAC to run an electric heater.

[rdickens]

BTW - My wife has and uses an induction cooktop both indoors and outdoors (sometimes inside the CLAM). They are popular with the motorhome folks and, if you have 110v power, they can be used to cook without adding a lot of extra heat on hot summer days.

We had our Scamp13 prepped for a top-mounted A.C. in case we (or future owners) wanted to add it later.

Scamp maintains a list of owners that are willing to show their trailers to others. If you talk to Wayne at Scamp, you might also ask for a list of minimalist Scamp13 owners near your home.

Also, note my edit above regarding a possible gray tank requirement. I could be wrong but, you might check for yourself.

Ray

[Civilguy]

I agree with the vinyl flooring. You can add a lightweight polyolefin runner to catch sand if you like. Then it’s easy to remove and shake out, and also to clean the floor.

I think that having a propane fridge is one of the real attractions, (unless you go with a 12volt compressor fridge as they work well too, and cause much less grief.)

I tend to agree with including more features with the build, and reducing weight by replacing the MDF, getting the shorter 11-lb propane cylinder, and just having wiring installed for the AC; things like that.

Life and our ambitions have a way of changing quickly. There’s many things like wiring and such that are best installed at the factory.

We have a heavy, expensive automatic awning that functions poorly. I am seriously considering going with a Keder rail style.

The window-mount approach to AC has been successfully implemented by many.

[Ak Ron]

I agree that stovetop is not very heavy. I’d keep it, although it does mean a propane tank. If you have a heater you’d have it anyway,

See if you can get an aluminum trailer frame. That is available as an option in outbacks in Calgary. That saves several hundred pounds.

We tow our outback (~1850# loaded) with our Subaru (2000# rating) and it is a good match. Small cars can be good TV’s with the right extra maintenance schedule and electric brakes.

Tongue weight might also be an issue so watch that with a smaller TV.

Best of luck to you.

[William Deak]

There are a lot of other low weight campers out there. Given your desire for ultra light weight and minimalist appointments, check out Earth Traveler and Happier Camper. The latter is totally modular. The downside is that the lighter you go, the pricier they are.

[Grin]

The CRV requires trailer brakes at 1000 lb. This is because the antilock brakes get real confused when pushed too much.
The total car load is 650 less tongue weight less you less passengers... runs out quick. Put stuff in trailer!
Our 2017 CRV 1.5L gets about 21 mpg when towing+load of 1300 lb. But 9 mpg at 1800 lb. so overloads quick.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Scamp R-value is more like 1.5 and you need 120VAC to run an electric heater.

Without contesting that which you have alleged about R-Value, A Mr. Heater Buddy with a 1lb propane disposable bottle can do the job very well without electricity.