Our 1971 13' Boler mods

[Johnny M]

Okay, we are newbies here, me & my wife just purchased our first camper trailer, a 13' 1971 Boler. Wife wouldn't camp without a shower & toilet, so we started looking. I have always liked the Scamps & we found a Boler for sale locally and the price was right & we got it.

After getting it home and deciding what to fix up to make it our own & suitable for our needs we discovered a few problems that needed addressing and decided to do them now:

1. Roof mounted AC poorly installed, leaking seal & rotten plywood, roof sagging, & fiberglass piece was cut out & re-patched.
2. Poor patch jobs to fiberglass where fridge & vents used to be
3. Musty smell from moisture behind wall covering, leaks from rivets, windows, etc.
4. Door sagging, needs resealing
5. Battery storage area under dinette needs to be relocated to trailer tongue
6. Improvements needed to 110v and 12vdc electrical system
7. Leveling scissor jacks needed

And of course, there are the things we want to change/add to it:
1. Add a toilet & shower
2. Redo the floor covering
3. Paint or recover walls/ceiling
4. Repaint cabinets, seats, bed fixtures
5. New seat cushions/covers, drapes, etc.
6. Solar panels/inverter/charger

Okay, since we are doing the repairs in the first list we might as well tackle our wants now...so I have come up with a redesign of the interior to allow for a shower & toilet & still allow for sleeping of up to 6 people...with a sink, microwave, refrigerator, and 1 or 2 burner electric cooktop. I will post a picture of the layout...

So I figure I will set up this camper for both AC power & water hookup and battery/solar only. No propane except for coleman camping stove using small propane bottles outside of trailer. Inside we will use a 1 or 2 burner hotplate for a cooktop ($11 to $20 at Fred's). Solar shower ($9 Coleman @ Walmart) if no water hookup, electric water heater if AC is available (still searching). Porta pottie for a toilet (got it - Bass Pro $45 on clearance), a utility sink ($50 Lowe's open box) as our "shower pan" with a shower curtain and a PVC frame for the curtain. Sink cabinet is coming out to make room for double bunk/couch, closet is being replaced with a custom cabinet to hold small sink, smallest micro we can find with a rotating plate & 1 or 2 storable electric cooktop (hot plate) and small ac/dc fridge to go under the bottom bunk. Freshwater holding tank also under bottom bunk (using collapsible gray water container under trailer/stored when not needed) Will also have a platform/riser that will allow a twin bunk on the floor with leg room under the double bed/dinette. And if we needed a sixth bed we could make a small removable bunk above the dinette for a small child.

Now our biggest dilemma has been what to redo the walls with...after a lot of looking & reading here, trips to home depot & lowes, we finally found a sewing store (hancock fabrics) that has tons of auto headliner cheap! And they also have a good selection of affordable vinyl. With their coupons we will get an even better deal! Now neither of these have much for insulation, so we found a vinyl laminate that would work and be very close to the original rubber wall covering but a lot nicer looking, but too expensive for our budget. Plus the auto headliner or white vinyl should conform easier to the curves and domed corners. The vinyl can be washed but the cloth headliner is appealing so we are on the fence. As for insulation under this, we found 1/8" closed cell above ground pool wall foam at Home Depot at a great price ($48.99 for 48" x 85' ft roll) with a roll big enough to do the whole interior.

As you can see, I am very resourceful and very frugal... Now as we work on these things we are looking at the appliances to find great deals and low power consumption for when we are "off the grid"...

Glad to be here & looking forward to your ideas & comments!

[Johnny M]

Here is my layout plan and a few pics

[boats19]

I'm looking forward to your pics as you complete this!

[Ian G.]

Hello John and welcome.

My first and biggest concern is the roof AC. The Boler is not designed to support any weight on the roof, the roof will sag with just snow load so an AC unit like that will definitely cause major problems. To keep it there you will need to incorporate considerable structural supports across the roof and continue right to the floor. A concept for doing this could be to use a similar support system I used on my Boler for supports when redeveloping the interior. I have also incorporated an electric hot water systen into mine which may also suit your needs. I have fully documented my build here “Buttercup” how we built our custom Boler

Door fit on a Boler can be a minor or major issue. Before starting any work I would review the Boler Buyer Guide as it describes the 10 common problems seen in Boler's and how to check for them.
Boler Buyer Guide

This info should help you to start with.

[Johnny M]

Originally Posted by Ian G.

Hello John and welcome.

My first and biggest concern is the roof AC. The Boler is not designed to support any weight on the roof, the roof will sag with just snow load so an AC unit like that will definitely cause major problems. To keep it there you will need to incorporate considerable structural supports across the roof and continue right to the floor. A concept for doing this could be to use a similar support system I used on my Boler for supports when redeveloping the interior. I have also incorporated an electric hot water systen into mine which may also suit your needs. I have fully documented my build here “Buttercup” how we built our custom Boler

Door fit on a Boler can be a minor or major issue. Before starting any work I would review the Boler Buyer Guide as it describes the 10 common problems seen in Boler's and how to check for them.
Boler Buyer Guide

This info should help you to start with.

Yes I agree on the weight of the ac & need for structural support. Surprisingly to me though, the AC unit is a lot lighter than I expected (maybe 75 pounds tops). The original metal supports were removed and the roof weekend by previous owner cutting out fiberglass for the AC that didn't need to be cut and then poor patch back in job. I am planning to design the bunks across from the door and the new "mini" kitchenette next to the door to support the roof better and to also run a support or two between these two fixtures (maybe fiberglassed to the celing also) to support the A/C. And I think this support may fix the door issue, but I will let you know...roof was sagging badly around the A/C allowing water to pool up, the 3'x3' plywood the previous owner put down between the A/C and roof for support in 2012 was already rotted. But at least the AC is only 3 years old (a $700 Dometic model) so I think overall we still got a good deal on the trailer, but if I had seen these problems before we got it home I would have tried to talked him down another $500.

And yes I have seen your posts on the refurb job, very nice gave me some good ideas to work with.

Back to the supports for the roof, I did have what I thought was a pretty good idea. I am going to take wax paper and tape it to the ceiling with the roof temporarily supported back to original height. Using cardboard box 3 sided "U" shaped supports attached to ceiling I am going to fill the cardboard void with spray in expanding foam to make a contoured mold of the ceiling. I will use this to construct an "as close to a perfect fit" support system as I can. Even thought about putting some supports inside the foam trimming down and fiberglassing in place. What's your thoughts on this idea?

[rowdy]

Don't know what you plan to use as tow vehicle, but I would make sure you don't add too much weight. I would also make sure the frame is in good shape before starting a reno.

[Johnny M]

Originally Posted by rowdy

Don't know what you plan to use as tow vehicle, but I would make sure you don't add too much weight. I would also make sure the frame is in good shape before starting a reno.

The frame is still in good shape, the lower floor decking was rotten and I replaced that this weekend. There was some surface rust over the frame and 1 small piece of really thin metal used as a lip for the lower floor that was rusted out so I welded in a new piece, wire brushed & sanded the surface rust away and painted everything with Rustoleum...For the new floor I used 3/4" pressure treated plywood and coated the side exposed to the ground and all edges with PlastiDip a spray on rubber coating, I figured that should last at least 20 years since it is a 71' model and appears to have had the original plywood & paint.

Now I have removed the front bunk/couch fiberglass fixture, getting ready to build out the shower/toilet room. The bunk fixture looks like it will work well with some modifications just turning it 90 degrees as it is almost a perfect fit.

Oh, and we got our fridge a 110/115v 0.7 amp 1.6 cu ft Emerson unit which I modified the closet next to the door to accommodate and still have room for storage above and below. I think for this we are gonna use shore power and get a small inverter with (2) 6 volt golf cart deep cycle batteries to power it & the lights/tv etc. when there is no power to hook to...found out yesterday that powering the ac or heater is pretty much out of the question using inverter & batteries... but then I saw a lot of reviews on some inverters at Northern Tool & Harbor Freight claiming they can run a 5000 watt heater or an AC unit with about a 3000 watt inverter so I gotta study this more...I definitely want a pure sine wave even if it costs more, just got to decide if I want one big enough to run the ac or heater or just enough for the fridge/lights/radio/tv...maybe I will just get a generator for the ac & heater but worry about disturbing other campers with generator noise in a primative camping area...would love some more input on this issue...

Still haven't decided for sure on wall coverings/insulation yet, would love any ideas & pictures anyone else has done...looking for something on a small budget...

I picked up some 1x2's today for several things including cutting & fiberglassing in to give more support to the roof & ac unit. I noticed when cutting about 1/4" vertical strip out of each side of the closet door opening (just enough to allow the fridge to slide in place) that the thick part of the fiberglass had some thin wood embedded in it. Does anyone know more about the wood used inside of the fiberglass shell and or fixtures? What type wood, what thickness, flexibility for forming, etc.? I am thinking of using the 1x2 fiberglassed to the ceiling and fiberglassed over for additional support, but concerned about the 1 to 2" or so of lower head room it will create...I can see us bumping our heads on it as we get up from the dinette...any ideas?

Oh and my wife is learning to sew by making us new covers for the bed/benches and it is turning out great, the colors look really good, though she is having some issues getting the curved pieces to work out fit wise but I know nothing about sewing so I am not much help to her there...

I will post pictures of our progress soon...

[Johnny M]

As promised here are some photos of the progress so far on the 71' Boler...

Picture # (1) is the roof with the AC & plywood removed...they used A LOT of sealer that I had to remove and there is still some residue there I got to go back over...notice the section of fiberglass cut out towards the back side of the opening...don't know why they cut this it was not necessary.

Picture # (2) is the closet door I modified to accommodate our 1.6 cu ft refridgerator...I had to trim about 1/4" vertically on both sides of the opening for it to slide into place...above the fridge we are either going to make a small cabinet with shelves or possibly a small microwave (anyone know what the smallest size microwave available is that still had the rotating glass plate?)

Picture # (3) shows the multi-function utility sink and porta pottie toilet layout for the bathroom and the new 3/4" plywood lower floor coated with PlastiDip coating on the underside...I sanded & painted the frame underneath the new plywood floor. The utility sink will serve as a sink, shower (with a curtain), bath tub for our 2 year old, and a clothes washing sink...thought this was a pretty good idea myself and it fits perfectly with room for a sliding door. Only negative thing is having to step over the wall to use the pottie (no big deal to us)...the faucet that came with the sink pulls out to make a perfect shower head as well...great deal for only $50 bucks!

Picture # (4) shows the front bunk (that use to be where the shower and toilet now sit) turned 90 degrees to the left. This fits almost perfectly and with a little modification to it, we will have a nice couch/double bunk and still have our bath...when it is all said and done, we could sleep 6 in our 13' Boler, however it will be very crowded, but the Boler isn't roomy to begin with but we love it!

Would love to hear your comments, opinions & suggestions!

[Sohkraites]

Looking forward to seeing your progress!

[Johnny M]

Okay so I am working on the bunk rebuild of the boler and the bath room. Went looking for a material to cover the bathroom walls with that was light weight but durable and could also be used on the sliding bath door...while also keeping a lookout for a wall covering for the fiberglass interior...

Last week I found this stuff at Home Depot...

1/16 in. x 4 ft. x 8 ft. Plastic Panel-63003 - The Home Depot

Showed it to my wife today and she likes it and we agreed this is what we are going with for both the bath walls, sliding door and fiberglass wall covering and also possibly the bathroom floor covering too. This stuff also has matching channel trim for the seams & edging

This stuff is extremely light weight and very flexible and has the look and feel that is very similar to the original skin of the Bowler (except without the black rubber backing)...so now we just got to decide on a good insulation to go behind it that will hold to the walls and that the plastic paneling will hold to...anybody got any recommendation for flexible insulation (rubber or foam type) with a really good R-value?

This seems like a much better route that the auto headliner we found at Hancock Fabric with costs about the same but we can easily clean the plastic wall covering and keep more of an original look and feel of the inside of the Bowler as we restore it (with some personalized mods of course)...

Anyone got any experience with this stuff or any thoughts on my ideas to using it for any of the above?

[Johnny M]

Okay, so I FINALLY got to work on the Boler today after days and days of non stop rain...made some pretty good progress too...got started on the framing for the bathroom walls and the supports for the bunk as well as making a mold for the contour of the roof for the top of the bathroom wall and some sanding prep work for some fiberglass patching...

Probably the most interesting part today was how I made the mold for the contour of the roof to be used to cut the plywood wall to fit up to the ceiling/roof...here are some pictures step by step of how I did this...thought it might be useful for other fiberglass rv owners...

In picture #1 you see me applying wax paper (yes, from the kitchen) with painters tape to the ceiling. This is used to keep the expanding foam from sticking to the ceiling...

Step #2 I made a cardboard trough that I also taped and supported to the ceiling using painters tape (and not pictured later added some C-clamps to the 1x2 of the bathroom walls to help support it..

Step #3 you see me filling the trough with great stuff expanding foam in pictures 3 & 4...(don't over do it as this stuff expands alot)

more pictures to follow of the remaining steps...

[Johnny M]

Now you have to wait 15 minutes for it to set and 8 hours to cure, but I recommend waiting overnight as there were soft spots in the middle of the mold that were not quite cured...

Next step after it is cured hard is to remove the mold from the ceiling, remove the wax paper and use a hand saw to cut right down the very middle of your new mold....try to cut it as straight as possible right down the middle so it will lay flat against your wood....

Next after you have cut the mold down the middle you can lay it flat against your plywood or other wood product to trace the contour of the ceiling of your fiberglass rv so that you have a near perfect fit of wood meeting up to the fiberglass...

Also, to reduce stress of the fiberglass against the wood I am going to add a thin layer of weather stripping between my wood and the fiberglass to give it a small amount of cushion to prevent any stress cracking from wood edges pressing into the fiberglass as it travels down the road...

Hope this helps some of ya'll, for me it worked hands down better than trying to trace and guess the contour with cardboard and scissors...

Now, with some progress made and hopefully another good day at it tomorrow if the rain will hold off maybe I can get the bathroom walls finished framed in....I also have been scraping the old rubber ensolite wall covering off with my dremel and a scraper blade but the blade broke after hours of use so I will pick one up tomorrow...this task has become a real chore....

And last but not least, I have decided to go with a propane furnace and an instant hot water heater, but with the bathroom addition we moved the bunks to where the original sink, furnace, cooktop and fridge/icebox go so I am thinking of putting the furnace on the curb side in the cabinet area below our 110v fridge...(which by the way I plugged in today to my new kill a watt and it pull 0.4 amps and about 5 amps when it kicks on for a split second so I think we can run this off batteries and an inverter just fine so I won't need the expensive LP fridge)....any ideas on where I am planning on putting the furnance?

[Sohkraites]

Great idea!

[Bob Miller]

Just to ask... Which "Instant Hot Water Heater" are you going to use and how/where are you going to mount it?


AND: Running a dorm type refrigerator on an inverter for any more than a day or two will pull down the best of batteries. .4 amps @ 120 VAC = about 4+ amps draw on your battery, plus those 50 amp hits each time the compressor restarts.


What with your modifications, extra batteries, AC, furnace, etc., it also appears that you are adding a lot of weight. I don't think that early Bolers are know for having a robust frame in the first place.

[Johnny M]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

Just to ask... Which "Instant Hot Water Heater" are you going to use and how/where are you going to mount it?


AND: Running a dorm type refrigerator on an inverter for any more than a day or two will pull down the best of batteries. .4 amps @ 120 VAC = about 4+ amps draw on your battery, plus those 50 amp hits each time the compressor restarts.


What with your modifications, extra batteries, AC, furnace, etc., it also appears that you are adding a lot of weight. I don't think that early Bolers are know for having a robust frame in the first place.

I haven't decided on the water heater model yet, just an instant type most likely LP. There will be room behind the porta pottie for an electric one but not sure about LP models. Do you have any recommendations for the tankless water heater (LP or electric) or LP furnace?

As for the refrigerator it cycles on an off to the point I felt we could go 2 to 3 days with it using (2) 6 volt batteries in series with minimal usage of led lighting. I was estimating that .4 amps ac x 120 volts = 48 watts and 48 ac watts/12 * 1.1 = about 4.4 dc amps. With about 50% run time per hour I am figuring about 2.2 amps/hour and with (2) 6 volt (215 amp hour each) batteries in series should run it for about 97 hours down to about a 50% drain on the batteries (215 amp hours * 2 batteries = 430 total amp hours / 2.2 amps per hour = 195 hours at full drain / 50% = 97 hours at half drain) which should work for most our camping trips...This would be only for boondocking with no power hookup situations...most of the time we would probably have hookups...I am going to put it on the kill a watt and see how much it uses for about 3 days then I will decide for sure...if it is too much draw then we will go old school and take a cooler when boondocking

Bob, can you look at my math figuring above on the battery usage with the refrigerator and let me know if I am figuring correctly or not?

As far as the weight, the trailer originally had an LP furnace, sink, small holding tank, 2 burner stove and a fridge or ice box. The only thing I will be adding to it is the shower/porta pottie and the wall/door around it and I am keeping those materials light weight as possible. We won't have the cook top as we will be using a camp stove outside and the utility sink/shower will replace the original sink and the counter unit removed will offset the weight added of the bath wall. We are also loosing the front upper cabinets above where the original bunks were. The bath door is also light weight with a 1x2 frame, wood panel outside utility panel plastic inside on a sliding track to keep it as light as possible. The tiny 1.7 cu ft refrigerator probably weighs the same or less than the original LP one, and I suspect the LP furnace will weigh about the same as the original one. The real weight will be the batteries and LP tank or two on the tongue. Oh, and the PO put a roof top AC on it which I am guessing is about 75 pounds tops and I am going to add some support around there to the roof or convert it back to a fan and maybe put a window unit in where the closet is, just haven't decided for sure yet. But, to answer your question, a lot of the additions is just replacing weight of what we are removing or doing without, with what additional weight is being added is carefully being considered...but I appreciate you mentioning it Bob as some newbies to FBRVs might not consider the weight...thanks in advance!

[Johnny M]

Originally Posted by Sohkraites

Great idea!

Thanks, I thought it was too... the only thing I would change is I would make my cardboard trough narrower and use less expanding foam...other than that it worked great and gave me a perfect shape of the contour to trace out on wood...I got to do a couple of more of them around the vent hole for the a/c unit so I can cut some supports to help hold the weight of the a/c unit and eliminate some sagging in that area, I will keep you posted on how well those turn out also with some pictures too...

[Bob Miller]

Actually I don't know of any LP instant water heaters that are rated or safe for use inside an RV. There is one than has been used with a vent pipe, but the outside surface is a hot spot most won't want in an FGRV. The few I have seen installed have been on the outside of the trailer, maybe not a good idea either. Electric ones are real power hogs and could not be supported for long on even two batteries.


The math looks OK, but you really need to try it to find out how much power it draws in a two or three day span. As it's is rated at a .7 amp draw, your .4 amp figure might prove to be a bit low and you can't ignore that 50 amp hit at restart. Be sure to subject it to the temps you will be seeing in your RV. Inside testing may not be as accurate. Also keep in mind that most inverters will start kicking off when input voltage drops below a certain point, meaning that you usually won't get much below 50% before it kicks itself off-line.

[Johnny M]

Okay so things are progressing along with our restoration/modification of the Boler...I finally got all the old Ensolite off using an oscillating Dremel with scraper blade and then angle grider with flap disc to remove what the scraper blade left behind (this was a huge chore taking about a complete including pulling the ensolite off the walls)...

We have also been sanding the blue outside as we are gonna paint the bottom half red and top half white...

I got all the windows out over the weekend, that went pretty well except there are a lot of rivets in the shell that served no purpose so I will be glassing over those...the only rivets that will go back are the ones holding something in place (windows, cabinets, etc.)...

And yesterday I got some fiberglass work done while my wife helped out with the sanding while our son helped out too...first the original LP refrigerator opening was poorly patched by PO using a piece of fiberglass as a patch with what I believe was bondo, I don't think they glassed it in at the seams as there were cracks around it and I pushed the patch completely out with moderate pressure...then I had to fix PO poor patch to the 14x14 vent opening that for some reason they cut larger for no apparent reason...any way as you can see in the pictures I went pretty wide with the fiberglass mat around the seams of the patch area to make it as strong as possible. In the first glassing I did the outside only, which is holding the patch pieces in place nicely this morning and seems good & solid. There are a few places around the seams where the pressure from the patch piece pushed out a little which is common with curved patching so I will also be glassing over the inside as well, with another layer applied after sanding down the bubbled up areas. When I am done you should not be able to tell there was ever a patch done at all after the gel coat goes on...

I was advised against it in another forum here on fiberglass work but I am still considering glassing in some support for the roof to stop some sagging and support the weight of the a/c unit up top. I think it can be done with some wood or metal strips glassed in with enough layers but I am still giving that some thorough consideration...

Now I have a question that I will also start as another post and that is on a fresh water supply tank, what size is in your Boler? I was thinking about a 30 gallon tank but the weight of that water would be 250 pounds...a 10 gallon tank would be 83 pounds of water but that just doesn't seem like enough for showers for 3 days when boondocking for 2 adults and a child...The options I have are a 10 gallon for $24.99 , 16 gallon $29, 21 gallon $39.00 and 30 gallon $44.88...I would really like to have 30 gallons of water but with the weight I am thinking of going with 16 instead. So what size tank do you have? How many showers can you get out of it?

Here is a link to the eBay sell of the tanks if you are looking for one at a great prices compare to places like camping world:

Clearance Marker Lights, Stop Turn Tail Lights items in R and P Carriages Trailer Sales store on eBay!

[Bob Miller]

You may be stressing your frame by putting in a 30 gallon water tank, not to mention doing all sorts of nasty thing to tongue weight etc. You might just carry an extra 10 gallons in 5 gallon cubes in your tv or distributed around the Boler.


As far as that roof mounted A/C. You need to multiply it's actual weight X 4 to get the amount of support you will need the first time you go over a good sized bump.


Short of a couple of pieces of 1" square tubing shaped to the inside of the roof and anchored to the side walls, there's not much you can do to support this weight.


BTW: That was about the answer that Gardner Pacific had to do to support A/C's in their molded fiberglass Sunrader mini-mororhomes. c. 1987-1991

[Johnny M]

Originally Posted by Bob Miller

You may be stressing your frame by putting in a 30 gallon water tank, not to mention doing all sorts of nasty thing to tongue weight etc. You might just carry an extra 10 gallons in 5 gallon cubes in your tv or distributed around the Boler.


As far as that roof mounted A/C. You need to multiply it's actual weight X 4 to get the amount of support you will need the first time you go over a good sized bump.


Short of a couple of pieces of 1" square tubing shaped to the inside of the roof and anchored to the side walls, there's not much you can do to support this weight.


BTW: That was about the answer that Gardner Pacific had to do to support A/C's in their molded fiberglass Sunrader mini-mororhomes. c. 1987-1991

Yes, I agree on the 30 gallon, I think we are gonna go with the 10 or 16 gallon tank...

The a/c weighs about 73 pounds from what I found on their website, can you explain in more detail about the "multiply it's actual weight X 4 to get the amount of support you will need"?