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04-29-2020, 11:55 AM
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#1
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Junior Member
Name: Matthew
Trailer: Scamp
Indiana
Posts: 7
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Remove & Cover Fridge Vents
Good afternoon! I purchased a 2003 16' Scamp late last summer, and am starting to do some work on it. I've gleaned much information from this forum so far, but haven't had a need to post until now!
I'm looking into replacing the 3-way fridge with a 12v electric only option. This would eliminate the need for the large vents on the side of my Scamp that appear to have been letting water in for the previous owner in the rain. (not sure if my vents are original - they seem like the type of metal vents on the return air duct on the wall of my house!).
If I go this route with the fridge, what would be a decent and visually appealing way of covering up or sealing up the large holes in the side of my Scamp from the current fridge vents? Thanks for any advice you can provide!
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04-29-2020, 12:00 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Trailer: Escape 17 ft
Posts: 8,317
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I'd read up on why what you propose is not a good idea. Just search 12V refrigerator.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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04-29-2020, 12:20 PM
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#3
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Junior Member
Name: Matthew
Trailer: Scamp
Indiana
Posts: 7
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I've seen several posts such as this one: https://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/...all-63621.html
That suggest a modern 12V fridge such as one from Engel or Truckfridge work well, cool faster, and can run for an extended period of time on batteries alone. Though I am somewhat new to RVs, I've tried to read pretty extensively through the forums about this. What am I missing?
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04-29-2020, 12:38 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,520
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there are two really good alternatives...
1] remove the vents an reinstall them with white rollex behind them.
this gives a good seal with a stock look and has the advantage of being easily reversible should the need arise.
2] just cover the holes with stainless steel or sheet metal and either leave it or paint it.
(like the two repairs on the Burro below)
You could of course, fiberglass over the holes or have it done but I suspect that may not be viable.
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04-30-2020, 03:29 PM
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#5
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Member
Name: Martin
Trailer: Trillium 13. boler 13.
British Columbia
Posts: 89
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I removed the fridge and Fiber glassed the holes, no problem. Replaced the fridge with an ARB
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05-01-2020, 08:09 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Trailer: Trillium 2010
Posts: 5,185
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Most people here install these 12 v. compressor refrigerators unvented as do most trailer manufacturers. That said, atleast one member added a vent to their trailer when they found the side of the trailer was getting very hot. Heat will certainly shorten the life of any electronics and may force the unit to work harder. Venting can't hurt. What does the refrigerator manufacturer say?
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05-01-2020, 08:48 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raz
Most people here install these 12 v. compressor refrigerators unvented as do most trailer manufacturers. That said, atleast one member added a vent to their trailer when they found the side of the trailer was getting very hot. Heat will certainly shorten the life of any electronics and may force the unit to work harder. Venting can't hurt. What does the refrigerator manufacturer say?
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Good point!
Also , some of the best cheap dorm fridges are non-compressor types...
They make a LOT of heat and still need the vents, but they cool very fast and are solid state, light weight, and have more room inside than compressor types.
Under $100 and great for small campers.
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05-02-2020, 03:38 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Name: Elliott
Trailer: Bigfoot
Everywhere
Posts: 462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd
Good point!
Also , some of the best cheap dorm fridges are non-compressor types...
They make a LOT of heat and still need the vents, but they cool very fast and are solid state, light weight, and have more room inside than compressor types.
Under $100 and great for small campers.
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I'd definitely avoid the solid state ones if you're going to be running off batteries for long. They're cheap and quiet, but only about a third as efficient as the compressor-based ones.
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05-02-2020, 05:25 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Name: Gordon
Trailer: 2015 Scamp (16 Std Layout 4) with '15 Toyota Sienna LE Tug
North Carolina
Posts: 5,155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvoss15
I've seen several posts such as this one: https://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/...all-63621.html
That suggest a modern 12V fridge such as one from Engel or Truckfridge work well, cool faster, and can run for an extended period of time on batteries alone. Though I am somewhat new to RVs, I've tried to read pretty extensively through the forums about this. What am I missing?
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You missed nothing I would guess.. many people have abandoned the customary RV absorption fridge and gone to a Danfoss / Secop compressor based fridge. I have a portable IndelB model in addition to the camper's two-way absorption fridge. People who boondock and use a 12 VDC fridge typically have good sized solar power systems with batteries (in fact two or more batteries quite often). The power draw of a Danfoss fridge can vary quite a bit, and if you dont have a big reserve of power you might find your food spoiled. On the other hand an absorption fridge can run for weeks on a single 20 lb propane tank with little or no worry about how much sun or electric power is available. (Most still need a little 12 volts power for a control board.. mine does not and will run fine with no electric at all). Absorption fridges can be finicky and they need maintenance. Danfoss fridges are pretty much bullet proof and need no routine maintenance.
Of course if you are on shore power then it matters not.. and you can use a $100 dorm fridge.
I removed my water heater and had the hole patched so it is almost like the hole in the shell was never there. Based on that I would estimate the cost to do they same for your two vents at over $1,000. You could do a less attractive but still waterproof fiberglass patch job for much less.
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05-02-2020, 10:33 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Name: David
Trailer: Former 13’Scamp, now Snoozy
Arizona
Posts: 2,316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd
there are two really good alternatives...
1] remove the vents an reinstall them with white rollex behind them.
this gives a good seal with a stock look and has the advantage of being easily reversible should the need arise.
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When I removed our 3way absorption refrigerator in our Scamp to replace it with a NovaKool danfoss compressor refrigerator, I used the aluminum foil duct tape on the inside of the vents which completely sealed them up but not noticeable from the outside. I used a single 100 watt Renogy solar panel to our group 27 battery, and could camp indefinitely in Arizona, Colorado (lots of sun and very little clouds or rain). I now use a Truckfridge (danfoss compressor fridge) in our Lil Snoozy backed up by a 160 watt Renogy solar panel and a Lifeline AGM battery, because we are now power hogs with iPads/iPhones/TV/DVD/Radio/CPAP machine, and lots of lights inside cupboards, closets and storage areas. Our meter shows that we use 55-65 amp hours per day. We live in our LS 4-5 months at a time, mostly without shore power during the summer (NOT in hot Arizona).
Dave & Paula
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05-03-2020, 02:57 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Name: Kelly
Trailer: Trails West
Oregon
Posts: 3,047
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I would just go to a sheet metal shop and have them cut you a piece of aluminum that will cover the opening. Then take that piece to a local company and have it powder coated in a close enough color for a match. Install it with one of the Sikaflex products. Put some insulation against the inside surface.
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05-03-2020, 06:50 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Name: JD
Trailer: Scamp 16 Modified (BIGLY)
Florida
Posts: 2,445
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My 1985 Scamp was missing the refrigerator when I bought it. Since the wife did not want open holes that attracted bugs etc. I installed a Norcold all electric refrigerator 12/24/120 volt unit. I scarfed fiberglass panels into the holes and epoxied them and blended them. This along with all of the other penetrations for space heater and water heater making other provisions for those functions.
I insulated the wall where the repairs were made to prevent heat build up. I also included the required ventilation inside the camper for the refrigerator to aid cooling efficiency. You cannot box in the "hot" coils if you expect the refrigerator to work properly.
The first Norcold I installed was a 704DE which worked well, but was quite noisy with the swing compressor ratteling through the night. I just replaced that unit with a Norcold DE490 that is significantly quieter. It is a little smaller and allowed moving the shelf over it to be lowered and gain a little more storage space. When I designed the wall unit that holds the fridge I included a vent slot at the read at the bottom and top for airflow in excess of that specified by Norcold.
So water intrusion eliminated along with limiting wildlife entrance (hopefully) was the goal and so far mission accomplished.
Here is a picture of the fiberglass scarfed into place.
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05-03-2020, 07:14 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Name: Gordon
Trailer: 2015 Scamp (16 Std Layout 4) with '15 Toyota Sienna LE Tug
North Carolina
Posts: 5,155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarron55
... I scarfed fiberglass panels into the holes and epoxied them and blended them. ...
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To give you a comparison, this is what Evelands can do for about $500 with a big square hole left by removing a water heater. If you look close you can see a shadow where the gel-coat blend is close but not perfect.
The second photo is the temporary patch I used for a few months, including a trip from NC to Backus, MN. It is nothing more than scrap alum sheeting on the outside screwed into 1/4 inch plywood on the inside. Butyl tape along the perimeter under the alum sheet. I would not use if long-term but I did not have a leak and had some heavy rains for the short time I used it.
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05-03-2020, 07:33 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Name: Steve
Trailer: Escape 5.0 TA
Pennsylvania
Posts: 231
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Ventilation??
So... you have lots of options for covering/eliminating the holes and the water leaks. No one has said anything about ventilation for the fridge. My question is do compressor type fridges need any ventilation? Where does the heat go?
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05-03-2020, 07:44 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Name: JD
Trailer: Scamp 16 Modified (BIGLY)
Florida
Posts: 2,445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starbrightsteve
So... you have lots of options for covering/eliminating the holes and the water leaks. No one has said anything about ventilation for the fridge. My question is do compressor type fridges need any ventilation? Where does the heat go?
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Yes they do need ventilation, but not necessarily to the outside. Gas refrigerators must vent outside because of the flame heat and the risk of CO poisoning. I vented the rear of my electric compressor refrigerator into the interior with a gap designed into the shelves on the bottom and top of the fridge. No venting makes for heat buildup and at best loss of efficiency, at worse loss of cooling and damage to the compressor system.
Small refrigerators require about 50 sq inches inlet and outlet for convection cooling, larger 100 square inched.
The optional factory fan reduces the requirement to half of that.
Of course these electric refrigerators are popular in marine applications because they do not need exterior venting and collection of LP gas fumes in the bilge and the explosion risk, not to mention the ability to operate when not level.
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05-03-2020, 08:00 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Name: Gordon
Trailer: 2015 Scamp (16 Std Layout 4) with '15 Toyota Sienna LE Tug
North Carolina
Posts: 5,155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starbrightsteve
.. No one has said anything about ventilation
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Maybe you missed it... see posts # 6 and # 7.
Quote:
Originally Posted by starbrightsteve
.. My question is do compressor type fridges need any ventilation? Where does the heat go?
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Yes they need some ventilation, but the portable Danfoss type that I have generates little heat.. as long as the vent on the side is not blocked it does fine sitting on the floor of the camper. For larger built-in types, see the installation manual.
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05-03-2020, 09:23 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defenestrator
I'd definitely avoid the solid state ones if you're going to be running off batteries for long. They're cheap and quiet, but only about a third as efficient as the compressor-based ones.
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There is some confusion here.
If a Danfoss 12V type fridge (best choice) is used then it is a good and permanent change and fiberglassing the vents would be the best way to go, but that would require a budget of over a thousand dollars.
If a 12V Coleman type Cooler/Fridge is used (see below) $89 and works fine , then sealing the outside vents works great and looks stock.
Same with a 110V only compressor type dorm fridge. Same $89(see below)
A solid state 110V only dorm fridge is spacious , quiet and cools fast but it makes enough heat to require keeping the outside vents .Same $89( see below)
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05-03-2020, 11:05 AM
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#18
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Junior Member
Name: Matthew
Trailer: Scamp
Indiana
Posts: 7
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Thanks, all, for the input! This has given me quite a bit to think about. I don't think I'd consider a dorm-style fridge. On a 12V, the inclusion of solar makes sense. I'll need to do some more research!
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05-03-2020, 11:30 AM
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#19
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Senior Member
Name: JD
Trailer: Scamp 16 Modified (BIGLY)
Florida
Posts: 2,445
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There are several 12 volt compressor types. The Danfoss uses a motor to drive the compressor and the swing compressor which is basically a solenoid that reciprocates as the current is switched + and -.
The advantage of the rotating compressor is that it is quieter (in some cases) but the con is that there is a starting surge that the power supply has to provide.
The swing compressor can be efficient and had no starting surge, but the con can be that it makes more noise with the piston jumping up and down.
I removed an old Norcold DE704 due to noise (it cools OK) and replaced it with a little smaller smaller DE490 that runs much much quieter and draws less power as well.
Both need to have ventilation, as do almost any refrigerator as it's business is moving heat from inside the box to outside the box.
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05-06-2020, 11:54 AM
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#20
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Junior Member
Name: Barbara
Trailer: Nova Star
New York
Posts: 2
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I have filled in quite a few holes in my fiberglass. For the big hole left by my over cab window, I found an old pickup truck cap (fiberglass ) at a dump. Used the old window as a template and cut the top of the truck cap 1/2 larger than the opening. I ground down the fiberglass around the opening and the new panel so when they were glued together, they would be about the thickness of the existing fiberglass shell on the motorhome. I used a 2 part automotive panel glue to adhere the two together (expensive, but worth it!!) Used screws until it set over night then removed the screws. Sealed over the whole joint with csm and resin and feathered it with marine grade bondo. It was a lot of work, but no more leaks! On the smaller holes, like vent size, I ground down the fiberglass around the hole and made a plug the same size as the hole. (Make it fit tight) It was thin plywood on both sides with thin insulation in between to equal the wall depth. (like a sandwich) Put the plug in (leaving it lower than level on the outside) and cover with csm and resin to bring it up to level. Unfortunately the outside will have to be gel coated or painted to cover up the patch. Hope this helps!!
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