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Old 08-20-2020, 01:28 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Jon Vermilye View Post
I don't know if you have been to any of the Oregon coast state parks, but during the summer they are completely filled, at least they have been when I've tried to make late reservations. I'd hate to see them attempt to hit the price break point where people would stop reserving; I suspect it would be out of sight!
Jon , we have camped at several Oregon State Parks and were very satisfied with the facilities and the fees
My point was that driving non residents out of your state by charging exorbitant fees under the guise of lowering resident taxes is short sighted and does not accomplish that goal
We live in a rural community and the largest source of income for our county is SS and tourism. If we drove all the non residents / tourists away , the county would go bankrupt and the residents would be the ones that suffer .
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Old 08-21-2020, 08:23 AM   #22
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I went to the OR Parks site. They claim the tax is temporary. The reality is that taxes are rarely temporary, once instituted they are forever and continue to grow. Second their plan is to raise $500,000 from this tax this year. When ever a new tax is instituted they collect less than estimated, people just make other choices.

The reality is that the city of Portland probably loses more than this for every night of rioting in destruction and costs.

We spent 10 weeks in Oregon last summer, we no longer visit Portland, a city we used to like, but about 10 years ago we could see it was becoming a little Seattle.

Here on the east coast and in California, there's a general exodus from the rioting cities and over taxed states.
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Old 08-21-2020, 09:51 AM   #23
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Just an example of what I consider an exorbitant non resident camping fee

Wisconsin State Park at Devils lake

1) One nights non resident camping fee — Electric only — No water/ sewer =$40
2 ) Non resident one day park sticker / pass =$13
3) Camping reservation fee. =$10
4) Total cost for one night’s camping. Total =$ 63
5) Plus if you want to ride the bike paths there is an additional fee

** I am a resident of Wisconsin and I can’t justify
that price **
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Old 08-21-2020, 10:58 AM   #24
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Meanwhile, the parks systems are being challenged by very high usage.

Quote:
Seeking COVID-19 escape, Oregon's outdoors crowded at unprecedented level, brings problems

In the quest to escape COVID-19, people are flooding Oregon's beaches, forests and mountains in unprecedented numbers, say state and federal officials. And that's brought a spike in accidents, made campsites scarce and brought an increase in garbage, damage and even bears at recreation sites.

“Especially on the Oregon Coast and west of the Cascades, we’re seeing a level of use well beyond a normal year,” Oregon Parks and Recreation Department spokesman Chris Havel said. “It’s like having the crowds you see for a holiday weekend, except all the time.”
https://www.statesmanjournal.com/sto...ng/5495531002/

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“Everything is full: campgrounds are full and all of the good, established, dispersed campsites have also been full,” said Darren Cross, McKenzie River district ranger for Willamette National Forest.

“The problem is, people packed up and drove all the way out here. So what we’re seeing is that people are creating their own new dispersed sites,” he said.

Cross said they’ve seen a roughly 30 percent increase in “pioneered sites” — meaning people are clearing brush for a place to put their tent.

“It only takes two to five uses before the vegetation is denuded and it’s very hard for it to look like the forest again,” Cross said. Ethically, people aren’t supposed to create new campsites and there are laws limiting it, but trying to stop people in vast national forests is next to impossible, Cross said.

Another problem is that many visitors don’t appear to have as much experience recreating in a national forest with limited facilities.

“We’ve seen a lot of issues with people not knowing how to bury poop, or use maps or even have the right footwear,” Cross said. Rangers said trash was luring bears to campsites in some areas.
Personally, we donate to the park systems and foundations in Oregon and Washington because we value them and starving them of cash and resources just doesn't seem to get the job done.
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Old 08-21-2020, 11:29 AM   #25
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"Many private campgrounds owe their existence to nearby public parks, lands, and tourist sites. Seems fair that visitors support the local infrastructure."

When you stay at one of those Private campground you are paying for all of the infrastructure and everything else that is around by spending any money in the state or area on the taxes and gas and food and everything else you spend money on. How do you think small towns and areas survive that don't have that stuff. Does it cost the State more for a non-resident to use those services?

Just another way to get extra money without any extra expense on the part of the state. We as non-residents have no say in the matter but to chose to stay in non-state owned parks or not in that state at all, then the state get $.00 money spent by non-residents and then you residents will have to make up the difference as we visit tourist friendly states.

As someone who travels the USA I choose to only stay in State campgrounds that don't charge extra to non-residents when possible. It is just the way for a State to charge non-residents extra because they can. Those that do charge extra will all end up just like California in everything they do. National Parks and Forest and BLM lands are first choice as we like boondocking as opposed to in your face overpriced campgrounds. We will leave them for those that need them.

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Old 08-21-2020, 03:18 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
Just an example of what I consider an exorbitant non resident camping fee
Wisconsin State Park at Devils lake
4) Total cost for one night’s camping. Total =$ 63
** I am a resident of Wisconsin and I can’t justify
that price **
FL has great state Parks. I just made a reservation in Blue Springs State Park, a giant, continuous spring of perfectly clear water at a constant 72F feeding a FL wilderness river for kayaking. I am a FL senior so I get a discount. Normal Fees are $24 a night, for me it's $15.80 with all taxes and fees.

(Also there are no income taxes in FL.)
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Old 08-21-2020, 03:56 PM   #27
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Sadly Florida real estate prices, high property tax, and high home owners insurance if you are close to water, all negate the “savings” from no income tax, at least at my income. Now if you come from the NE the savings are huge. From here in the mountains of NC, not so much.
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Old 08-21-2020, 03:59 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by honda03842 View Post
FL has great state Parks. I just made a reservation in Blue Springs State Park, a giant, continuous spring of perfectly clear water at a constant 72F feeding a FL wilderness river for kayaking. I am a FL senior so I get a discount. Normal Fees are $24 a night, for me it's $15.80 with all taxes and fees.

(Also there are no income taxes in FL.)
We have camped at Blue Springs State Park and it is a very nice park .
As far as Florida system of taxation, I will keep my opinion to myself !
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Old 08-21-2020, 10:33 PM   #29
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Just made a reservation at an Oregon state park. Normal price $17.00. Out of state + $5.00, reservation fee +$8.00, total $30.00. Still less expensive than camping in a Washington state park.
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Old 08-22-2020, 01:22 AM   #30
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Every state has their own idea on how to finance public commodities. State colleges are funded through taxes paid by state residents, making a great case for non residents to pay more for that education. Oh wait, they already do that! The same goes for parks in my opinion. If one states camping fees are higher than another’s it may be because there’s a higher level of service or it may just be that the budgeting hasn’t been a priority. That’s democracy folks and if enough of us are heard it will make a difference.

Personally I still find camping in Washington State parks a great value. Probably just because I’m a resident.
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Old 08-22-2020, 11:32 AM   #31
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Some states just don't want my tourist money spent in their state.
They make sure that I know I'm not welcome by overcharging for access to such things as parks, camping, and trails.
Oregon is a beautiful place, but so is North Carolina, and Tennessee, which still welcome me and my money.
I loved Wisconsin bicycle trails for years, but I thank Wisconsin for helping me find better and less punitive places in surrounding states.
Perhaps Oregon won't miss those of us who choose to make other plans, but many of us won't miss Oregon either.
I am more and more attracted to COE facilities and national parks, they are generally better kept, better run and more welcoming than many state parks...as well as less costly. Plus, they are federal, so I guess we don't have to feel like unwelcomed outsiders.
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Old 08-22-2020, 12:15 PM   #32
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When you run a wholesale hydro-power generation facility the parks which are mandated by your license as mitigation are a minute fraction of the operating budget. This allows utilities to spread costs among literally hundreds of thousands of retail electrical customers who never even see or hear of the recreation facility.

Just apply that model everywhere and we've solved the problem. Let's start with building some thermal power generation facilities at Yellowstone!

Quote:
in 2017, NASA scientists ran a thought experiment to see if they might be able to halt a future supereruption. The internal study led by Brian Wilcox, an engineer at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, suggested drilling a series of wells around the perimeter of the park and pumping cold water down into the hot rock. The hypothetical solution would cool down Yellowstone’s magma chamber and prevent calamity.

As a bonus, the system would be able to extract five gigawatts of electricity, making it one of the largest power plants in the world. Outside experts agree that Yellowstone hosts enough geothermal energy to power the entire country.
Yellowstone Geothermal Power
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Old 08-22-2020, 02:58 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by ROBERT ONEILL View Post
As someone who travels the USA I choose to only stay in State campgrounds that don't charge extra to non-residents when possible.
So what other states do you avoid because they charge non-residents fees besides:

Michigan
New York
Oregon
Washington
Wisconsin
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Old 09-17-2020, 12:58 AM   #34
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Bye bye Oregon SP's

Well I am glad I checked in here because I haven't looked at fiberglass RV for a while and found this thread. I was planning on going down the coast of Oregon in November and staying at several state parks well that's not gonna happen. There is no way that I will pay extra to stay in any state that charges me extra as a non-resident. that tells me they don't want me there, they don't want my tourist money, fine I'll just keep it in my bank account.
As far as other states charging a non-resident fee the state of Montana does it was $10 or $12, I said no thank you. Wyoming also has a non-resident fee.
Another reason I resist paying this fee is when states also charge a daily entrance fee in addition to Camping. you can buy an annual pass and actually if you're going to stay more than about 5 days the annual passe is a better value.
When charging a non-resident extra for Camping, they won't see me anytime soon.
😥😥I love Oregon I have lots of family ties to it and this saddens me that basically I feel they didn't don't want me there anymore . I'll still go to Oregon to camp because I know lots of US forest service campgrounds to go to. The problem is some of them are awfully small they may not accommodate my big truck and little trailer, we will see.☹️☹️
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Old 09-17-2020, 01:08 AM   #35
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Just thought of something else with this Covid thing everybody's requiring reservations nowadays. I hate reservations puts me on a schedule. I don't like schedules. when I worked I had to have them. I don't need them now and now that reservations are being implemented just about everywhere you know they're never going to go back to first come first serve. .
I had a campground host, the other day, tell me she's just delighted about all the reservations being required because she doesn't have to spend eight hours in the office anymore. My reaction, which I kept myself, was "oh you poor dear. I feel so sorry for you. you get a nice campsite with water electric and sewer and now you don't even really have to work that hard boo-hoo"
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Old 09-17-2020, 01:16 AM   #36
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I forgot to tell you the kicker in this whole reservation set up is that I was standing there looking at a campground that was half empty and I couldn't have one of the sites without making a phone call to make a reservation and paying a reservation fee. Then I found out I can't have it the same day so isn't that a little crazy seems to me they're losing money with empty sites. is this why they're adding a non-resident fee because somebody's got to pay for it.
I was Montana at the time
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Old 09-17-2020, 01:33 AM   #37
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So Gretchen I'm curious what state park you made a reservation in for initial price $17, simply because I haven't seen an Oregon state park under about $24 for several years.
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Old 09-17-2020, 05:53 AM   #38
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States can argue that the residents of that state paid the taxes that created those parks. As to sticking it to tourists, check a hotel bill sometime and look at all the taxes.

Several countries national parks do the same thing. Not from that country you pay more, sometimes a lot more. There are arguments that the US should do the same but we don’t.

In the end, I’m staying in a state park if it provides the value equal to or exceeding the price. The fact that others may pay less doesn’t enter into it. Most state parks offer more spacious campsites than private campgrounds at a lower price. I stopped at a KOA in Florida in 2019, tiny site was $170 a night. They only had one site left. I didn’t stay,
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Old 09-17-2020, 04:58 PM   #39
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"To encourage local recreation" that was in what Chuck and Deb posted.
Charging me more isn't going to encourage local recreation but if they take the fees down from the current level for locals that would encouragement it.
so I debunk it all.
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Old 09-18-2020, 10:03 AM   #40
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Hi Joy! How are you? Heard you were traveling up this way...

Adding to the list of states that charge non-resident fees:

Michigan
Montana
New York
Oregon
Washington
Wisconsin
Wyoming
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