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07-09-2012, 11:14 PM
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#41
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Senior Member
Name: GP
Trailer: Looking
British Columbia
Posts: 163
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Some good points being made. I fully agree that above and beyond education, experience provides a kind of practical knowledge that is almost impossible to obtain otherwise. I also agree that end user experience or testing similarly leads to design refinements. More and more though, I think that product designers and manufacturers know the shortcomings of their design from a user perspective, but styling, economics, use of off the shelf components, etc. dictate that the product goes out the door with known shortcomings so as to satisfy these other objectives. That's just the way the world works and perhaps necessarily so. It's all about compromises for reasons that aren't always readily apparent or meaningful to the end user.
Back to experience....I always appreciate a good technical book because sometimes the author has distilled the highlights from a lifetime of experience into the book. For a few dollars and a few days of my reading time, I have the opportunity to absorb that experience with little relative time or effort. What a bargain! That's also why I like this forum so much. Folks freely share their actual real world experience. Sometimes I get actual solutions, other times a story of "how not to do things". Both valuable and with a few minutes reading I get the benefit of that hard earned experience.
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07-09-2012, 11:44 PM
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#42
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Senior Member
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 7,056
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GPJ
Some good points being made. I fully agree that above and beyond education, experience provides a kind of practical knowledge that is almost impossible to obtain otherwise. I also agree that end user experience or testing similarly leads to design refinements. More and more though, I think that product designers and manufacturers know the shortcomings of their design from a user perspective, but styling, economics, use of off the shelf components, etc. dictate that the product goes out the door with known shortcomings so as to satisfy these other objectives. That's just the way the world works and perhaps necessarily so. It's all about compromises for reasons that aren't always readily apparent or meaningful to the end user.
Back to experience....I always appreciate a good technical book because sometimes the author has distilled the highlights from a lifetime of experience into the book. For a few dollars and a few days of my reading time, I have the opportunity to absorb that experience with little relative time or effort. What a bargain! That's also why I like this forum so much. Folks freely share their actual real world experience. Sometimes I get actual solutions, other times a story of "how not to do things". Both valuable and with a few minutes reading I get the benefit of that hard earned experience.
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Of course the product will go out the door with known short comings. As I said earlier, designs are compromises, there is NO perfect design. The laws of physics won't allow it. We don't generally know, as consumers, what compromises were made. Furthermore what some see as a negative others will see as a positive. Many things are dependent on the what the consumer demands. Example left hand threads on lug nuts, no matter what the reasoning was, the public simply wouldn't accept that.
Also off the shelf components, again of course. It would be silly to attempt to design and perfect something that has already been done.
Software...
It's really easy to design a word processor, but impossible to design a user interface (that's what you see on the screen and how it behaves) that easy for everybody to use. Many have tried with multiple ways of accomplishing the same thing. But, there's still those that want something different making it impossible to please everybody.
__________________
Byron & Anne enjoying the everyday Saturday thing.
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07-09-2012, 11:46 PM
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#43
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Senior Member
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 7,056
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I'll give you one more engineering truism.
Successful designs will be modified to failure.
Failed designs will be modified to success.
__________________
Byron & Anne enjoying the everyday Saturday thing.
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07-10-2012, 12:32 AM
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#44
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2009 Trillium 13 ft ('Homelet') / 2000 Subaru Outback
Posts: 2,222
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A non engineer gripe
How about persons who "merge" onto an expressway without looking and making the traffic slow down for them.
It is not always engineers. I remember a design I did using one brand of hydraulic actuators. The bean counters put the purchased items out for bid without my knowledge and of course bought a different brand which was not the same and didn't fit.
__________________
A charter member of the Buffalo Plaid Brigade!
Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right.
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07-10-2012, 06:16 AM
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#45
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Senior Member
Name: Logan
Trailer: 1976 Scamp 13'
Wisconsin
Posts: 230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerDat
Your comment on known corrosion reminds me, ford used steel shaft for transmission shift, running through an aluminum transmission case. Shaft corrodes into immobility if allowed to sit, so trans shop makes $400 removing and cleaning shaft, because 4WD system does not get activated for several months. Ford Escort had the same problem if allowed to sit.
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Our fix for that was pretty simple.
We told the customer to use 4wd.
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07-17-2012, 11:48 AM
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#46
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Senior Member
Trailer: Sold Bigfoot. Shopping for Arctic Fox 22G
Missouri
Posts: 701
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It would be nice to find a travel trailer that was designed and engineered by people who were actually RVers. They could develop a prototype then actually use it on a couple of eight week trips. One to Alaska in cool weather and one to the Southwest in warm weather, with at least half of the time not being spent in RV parks. Then come back, make adjustments and put it into production.
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07-17-2012, 12:28 PM
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#47
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Moderator
Name: RogerDat
Trailer: 2010 Scamp 16
Michigan
Posts: 3,744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce H
It would be nice to find a travel trailer that was designed and engineered by people who were actually RVers. They could develop a prototype then actually use it on a couple of eight week trips. One to Alaska in cool weather and one to the Southwest in warm weather, with at least half of the time not being spent in RV parks. Then come back, make adjustments and put it into production.
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RV manufactures don't do it because they choose not to. And the market does not insist. I think that is one of the things that makes this forum so successful, real world solutions engineered by pretty smart and creative people then shared. Would bet you get a better solar solution at better cost by following advice here than would be "built in" by manufacturer.
I have a mechanic friend who worked in design testing operations, twice a year was sent to do stress testing of autos.
Minn. for winter cold testing and New Mexico for summer can this air conditioner cool the car without overheating while we climb this mountain. He said winter testing was better, employer provided winter coat an boot allowance.
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07-23-2012, 09:10 PM
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#48
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2009 Trillium 13 ft ('Homelet') / 2000 Subaru Outback
Posts: 2,222
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Another one
Ever use "DEX Knows?" I think DEX don't know squat. All they know is money. I like the old fashioned phone book I can look up persons for free.
Why is it most persons I look up on the service return the phrase:
Sorry, we could not find a match.
But just below this phrase the sponsors, for money, have found several.
__________________
A charter member of the Buffalo Plaid Brigade!
Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right.
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10-13-2012, 02:12 AM
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#49
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2009 Trillium 13 ft ('Homelet') / 2000 Subaru Outback
Posts: 2,222
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This one is not funny. People died.
Here is the classic. Fly by wire. The computers took control of the plane from the pilots and said, "You told me we were landing and by jingo, we are going to land!" I understand that the programmers had made no accommodation for low altitude fly-by for air shows.
Here is a discussion of the reasons.
Air France Flight 296 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
__________________
A charter member of the Buffalo Plaid Brigade!
Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right.
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10-13-2012, 07:39 AM
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#50
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Senior Member
Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
Florida
Posts: 7,517
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When I was a politician a mentor told me "do 999 things right and 1 thing wrong and all the voters will remember is the 1".
Our lives are so enhanced by engineers, this web site and the Internet are examples, that it is all too easy to overlook the truly overwhelming positive contribution of engineers (science).
__________________
Norm and Ginny
2014 Honda Odyssey
1991 Scamp 16
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10-13-2012, 11:41 AM
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#51
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Senior Member
Name: Jack
Trailer: '98 BURRO 17WB
Delaware
Posts: 2,548
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A designer with five minutes of engineering experience should be shot. An engineer with five minutes of design experience is a bargain. 12 yr. olds should mow lawns rather than designing lawn mowers. Gresham's Law rules everything including law.
jack
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10-22-2012, 02:24 AM
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#52
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2009 Trillium 13 ft ('Homelet') / 2000 Subaru Outback
Posts: 2,222
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It is hard to make designs "idiot proof"
A small engine mfr was sued by two different persons for the following reasons:
Plaintiff 1 claimed that the engine flywheel of his yard tractor 'blew up' and he was injured. Did not think this was possible because all flywheels are spin tested to 10,000 rpm and engines are governed to 3600 rpm.
Turns out the plaintiff was using the tractor at a fair in a tractor pull event and attempted to achieve more horsepower by exceeding the governed speed. He had removed the governer.
Plaintiff 2 had trouble getting his push lawn mower started. He took it into the basement of his home to work on it. He got it started in the basement and was afraid if he turned it off he wouldn't be able to get it started again. So he carried it, while the engine was running, up the basement stairs. Predictably, he tripped.
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Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right.
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