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Old 07-09-2012, 11:14 PM   #41
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Some good points being made. I fully agree that above and beyond education, experience provides a kind of practical knowledge that is almost impossible to obtain otherwise. I also agree that end user experience or testing similarly leads to design refinements. More and more though, I think that product designers and manufacturers know the shortcomings of their design from a user perspective, but styling, economics, use of off the shelf components, etc. dictate that the product goes out the door with known shortcomings so as to satisfy these other objectives. That's just the way the world works and perhaps necessarily so. It's all about compromises for reasons that aren't always readily apparent or meaningful to the end user.

Back to experience....I always appreciate a good technical book because sometimes the author has distilled the highlights from a lifetime of experience into the book. For a few dollars and a few days of my reading time, I have the opportunity to absorb that experience with little relative time or effort. What a bargain! That's also why I like this forum so much. Folks freely share their actual real world experience. Sometimes I get actual solutions, other times a story of "how not to do things". Both valuable and with a few minutes reading I get the benefit of that hard earned experience.
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:44 PM   #42
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Some good points being made. I fully agree that above and beyond education, experience provides a kind of practical knowledge that is almost impossible to obtain otherwise. I also agree that end user experience or testing similarly leads to design refinements. More and more though, I think that product designers and manufacturers know the shortcomings of their design from a user perspective, but styling, economics, use of off the shelf components, etc. dictate that the product goes out the door with known shortcomings so as to satisfy these other objectives. That's just the way the world works and perhaps necessarily so. It's all about compromises for reasons that aren't always readily apparent or meaningful to the end user.

Back to experience....I always appreciate a good technical book because sometimes the author has distilled the highlights from a lifetime of experience into the book. For a few dollars and a few days of my reading time, I have the opportunity to absorb that experience with little relative time or effort. What a bargain! That's also why I like this forum so much. Folks freely share their actual real world experience. Sometimes I get actual solutions, other times a story of "how not to do things". Both valuable and with a few minutes reading I get the benefit of that hard earned experience.
Of course the product will go out the door with known short comings. As I said earlier, designs are compromises, there is NO perfect design. The laws of physics won't allow it. We don't generally know, as consumers, what compromises were made. Furthermore what some see as a negative others will see as a positive. Many things are dependent on the what the consumer demands. Example left hand threads on lug nuts, no matter what the reasoning was, the public simply wouldn't accept that.
Also off the shelf components, again of course. It would be silly to attempt to design and perfect something that has already been done.

Software...
It's really easy to design a word processor, but impossible to design a user interface (that's what you see on the screen and how it behaves) that easy for everybody to use. Many have tried with multiple ways of accomplishing the same thing. But, there's still those that want something different making it impossible to please everybody.
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:46 PM   #43
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I'll give you one more engineering truism.
Successful designs will be modified to failure.
Failed designs will be modified to success.
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Old 07-10-2012, 12:32 AM   #44
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Cool A non engineer gripe

How about persons who "merge" onto an expressway without looking and making the traffic slow down for them.

It is not always engineers. I remember a design I did using one brand of hydraulic actuators. The bean counters put the purchased items out for bid without my knowledge and of course bought a different brand which was not the same and didn't fit.
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Old 07-10-2012, 06:16 AM   #45
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Your comment on known corrosion reminds me, ford used steel shaft for transmission shift, running through an aluminum transmission case. Shaft corrodes into immobility if allowed to sit, so trans shop makes $400 removing and cleaning shaft, because 4WD system does not get activated for several months. Ford Escort had the same problem if allowed to sit.
Our fix for that was pretty simple.

We told the customer to use 4wd.
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Old 07-17-2012, 11:48 AM   #46
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It would be nice to find a travel trailer that was designed and engineered by people who were actually RVers. They could develop a prototype then actually use it on a couple of eight week trips. One to Alaska in cool weather and one to the Southwest in warm weather, with at least half of the time not being spent in RV parks. Then come back, make adjustments and put it into production.
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Old 07-17-2012, 12:28 PM   #47
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It would be nice to find a travel trailer that was designed and engineered by people who were actually RVers. They could develop a prototype then actually use it on a couple of eight week trips. One to Alaska in cool weather and one to the Southwest in warm weather, with at least half of the time not being spent in RV parks. Then come back, make adjustments and put it into production.
RV manufactures don't do it because they choose not to. And the market does not insist. I think that is one of the things that makes this forum so successful, real world solutions engineered by pretty smart and creative people then shared. Would bet you get a better solar solution at better cost by following advice here than would be "built in" by manufacturer.

I have a mechanic friend who worked in design testing operations, twice a year was sent to do stress testing of autos.

Minn. for winter cold testing and New Mexico for summer can this air conditioner cool the car without overheating while we climb this mountain. He said winter testing was better, employer provided winter coat an boot allowance.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:10 PM   #48
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Angry Another one

Ever use "DEX Knows?" I think DEX don't know squat. All they know is money. I like the old fashioned phone book I can look up persons for free.

Why is it most persons I look up on the service return the phrase:

Sorry, we could not find a match.

But just below this phrase the sponsors, for money, have found several.
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Old 10-13-2012, 02:12 AM   #49
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Unhappy This one is not funny. People died.

Here is the classic. Fly by wire. The computers took control of the plane from the pilots and said, "You told me we were landing and by jingo, we are going to land!" I understand that the programmers had made no accommodation for low altitude fly-by for air shows.



Here is a discussion of the reasons.

Air France Flight 296 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 10-13-2012, 07:39 AM   #50
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When I was a politician a mentor told me "do 999 things right and 1 thing wrong and all the voters will remember is the 1".

Our lives are so enhanced by engineers, this web site and the Internet are examples, that it is all too easy to overlook the truly overwhelming positive contribution of engineers (science).
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Old 10-13-2012, 11:41 AM   #51
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A designer with five minutes of engineering experience should be shot. An engineer with five minutes of design experience is a bargain. 12 yr. olds should mow lawns rather than designing lawn mowers. Gresham's Law rules everything including law.

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Old 10-22-2012, 02:24 AM   #52
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Unhappy It is hard to make designs "idiot proof"

A small engine mfr was sued by two different persons for the following reasons:

Plaintiff 1 claimed that the engine flywheel of his yard tractor 'blew up' and he was injured. Did not think this was possible because all flywheels are spin tested to 10,000 rpm and engines are governed to 3600 rpm.
Turns out the plaintiff was using the tractor at a fair in a tractor pull event and attempted to achieve more horsepower by exceeding the governed speed. He had removed the governer.

Plaintiff 2 had trouble getting his push lawn mower started. He took it into the basement of his home to work on it. He got it started in the basement and was afraid if he turned it off he wouldn't be able to get it started again. So he carried it, while the engine was running, up the basement stairs. Predictably, he tripped.
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