"Recommended Products Section?" - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 06-15-2012, 09:34 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by rabbit View Post
The really unique aspect of Randy Bishop's shinola thread was the 12 pages of responses from those who tried RMP on his rec. Randy added the caveat "Only time will tell . . ." and as the pages of initially happy users mounted up, time also mounted up to answer Randy's initial reservation. I doubt if any thread template or moderator oversight will produce such a happy conjunction of initial product endorsement with a long-sustained positive feedback loop. One of a kind!

jack
I think that the idea was this type of thread would result in one entry under the recommended products section for polish, with a link to the thread. That way the supporting posts and threads could be condensed into one entry and those with less time would not have to read all 12, and counting, pages.
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:01 AM   #22
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You have no idea of the unconscionable tedium, David, as you quoted me before I edited 12 pages to 31 pages. So I forgot how many also but I think I've read them all. Amazing the successive generations of "legs" this thread has grown! No one is forced to read more than they wish and apparently a lot of us read enuf to give the stuff a try and tack on at least a day-after endorsement.

I used Google Custom Search to find a thread on Burro trailer production numbers yesterday evening. DId not reveal a verbatim version of the search words but did get "Where are all the Burros?" as one possible subect line and "production numbers" embedded in the text. There were several other suggested threads pulled up primarily by "any words contained within text". I believe this is a pretty standard search fomula for search engines. I think the model pointed at by Dave and others is the Wikipedia synopsis essay format. Altho it might be fairly simple to tote up the thumbs up and down on the Not Polyglo, I doubt that any of us here can successfully reproduce that forumla day after day given the "lick and a promise" time that most volunteers can devote. In addition, what criteria does one apply to determine the optimum moment to "lock" a product suggestion/endorsement thread? This is particularly apropo of "Not Polyglo----TWT".
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:18 AM   #23
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I hope my prior post did not give the impression I did not like the idea. If someone was willing to take on the work of managing and organizing the data I think it is a good idea.

I also wonder if this could encompass a "Vintage Parts and Pieces" listing of sources of supply. The links from members that are to sources of older parts and materials.

Wonder if polish should include cleaning "Polishing and Cleaning Products" because generally one has to clean before polishing. And questions come up about what is best to clean...

A little bit of the pros and cons is good, the silly-con caulk removal thread summary is a good example. I could not get the "1st" choice product based on review so I went with the "2nd" choice that required a wait but was available.

Another example of pro/con might be:
Nevr-Dull (alum. polish)
Pro - easy to use, readily availble at auto parts stores.
Con - does not leave any protective film behind.
Semichrome (alum. polish)
Pro - easy to use, a little goes a long way, leaves a protective silicon seal behind.
Con -generally has to be ordered online or special ordered at auto parts stores.

Both of these products generate a lot of black residue that is a little difficult to clean off of your trailer so masking tape to prevent this mess is a good idea.

This sort of pro/con type summary would be of value in looking for a product to accomplish a task.
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:26 AM   #24
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Jack your post highlights the issue with the product recommendations.

Yes a whole lot of people have reported using Redmax and getting great results. But an important point that is missed is that in many of those cases they are people who are new to fiberglass trailers &/or looking after fiberglass on anything.

For some who have been maintaining fiberglass for many years whether it be a boat or a trailer there is still a IMHO and I know a lot of others a big question mark on the "Only time will tell" part of it.... in reality the majority that have used the product have only done so in the fast couple of years. Few who have done it 2 year or more ago (look at the date on the original posting July 2010) have actually come back to say how it held up to real world road usage.... one party did mention a problem & I think it was even in a different thread - peeling due to possible rock chips (Norm?) ... I don't recall seeing an update on that issue. The other big unknown is how many that have used Redmax are only summer time week-end warriors? Willing to bet a lot of them are, so there experience with the product standing up to real world road issues is going to be very different from someone that spends 90 days or more out a year with their trailer on the road in various weather & road conditions.

The other big one is I dont recall anyone telling what they had to go through to get it off or what it did to the fiberglass as a result. Yes some have fixed problems by just putting another coat or two on but has anyone actually tried to strip it right off and keep it off? How much work was that? How did it work out for them? In 5 or 10 years is the mention of Redmax going to get the same type of response the mention of caulking does?

As said previously what might be one persons dream product may actually be another persons worse nightmare. I personally would not buy a trailer that someone had put Redmax or it equivalent on.

Yes the idea of a special place for various products is a nice idea but it is as pointed out above very subjective. There could be a poll on each product and the moderators could talk about the product privately before posting but IMHO thats a heck of lot of extra work to ask the moderators to take on. If their willing to do that *great* but I dont personally think it realistic to expect them to.
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Old 06-15-2012, 11:04 AM   #25
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Carol, I checked some threads from our FG cousins of the afloat in a boat persuasion and quickly found some reservations concerning total removal of both Polyglo and the floor coatings. Deep contamination of porous gelcoat is a concern for those who wish to paint over gelcoat (or in many cases the mishmash of gelcoat, raw glass and body filler that makes up the substrate on older trailer (or boat) hulls with a lot of cosmetic and structural remuddle. Nothing is forever and prep work for a total change of surface coating frequently doesn't take place in ideal conditions (under cover) with ideal time alloted (a whole lot of it!). Likewise, experience is too often the thing that enables you to recognize a miSTEAK when you make it again! Not a perfect world full of technicians with perfect technical mastery of a thousand subjects. Your warnilng about the consequences of "looks good today" solutions is warranted. For those of us with the laziness and patience, the "cheap stuff" is looking pretty good. I'm not recoating the Burro after nearly 13 months in the sun and rain and four road trips. I'm satisfied with the shiny and easily cleanable surface for now and hedging my bets by not adding more coats and the chance of a bad interlayer bond to long-cured coats. As to the work involved for the Czar-elect[s] of product endorsement, I am in complete and unqualified agreement with your opinion.

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Old 06-15-2012, 12:24 PM   #26
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To do what BC Dave is suggesting could be done on the basis of a product poll area.

The primary job of a moderator is to make sure the rules of the forum are being followed. Asking the moderators to decide on product recommendations raises issues of liability. Running a forum is a big job and at times a thankless one, moderators are key to the smooth running forum.

For myself I own a major forum and as I view this thread I ask myself if I would want my forum involved in recommending products. My conclusion is NO!

This forum does a fine job providing many different opinions on many topics.
There is also the issue of advertising / indorsing forums cost money to run.
Would I want to support a product as a forum owner without benefit to the forum ?
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Old 06-15-2012, 12:26 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by rabbit View Post
Carol, I checked some threads from our FG cousins of the afloat in a boat persuasion and quickly found some reservations concerning total removal of both Polyglo and the floor coatings. Deep contamination of porous gelcoat is a concern for those who wish to paint over gelcoat (or in many cases the mishmash of gelcoat, raw glass and body filler that makes up the substrate on older trailer (or boat) hulls with a lot of cosmetic and structural remuddle. jack
.
Sorry Dave we are taking this topic somewhat off topic although it does highlight the issues with product recommendations.

Jack is correct the idea of using Redmax came from the boat industry where it had started to be used a few years before it became the thing to do here. They are now starting to see boats being sold and people wanting to put a new custom paint job on the old boat only to find that there is a good chance the new paint job will fail due to the fiberglass being contaminated with a floor finish. So people may want to keep that in mind if they are fixing up a trailer to sell & or to preserve an older trailer for years to come.

As far as faster and cheaper goes - when I read a post and look at photos of process of getting a trailer done with RedMax I giggle to myself and question both those assumptions. With all the repeat washings needed and use of cans of barkeeps friend and or 3m pads & hand scrubbing to get stains off before coating and the cost of the RedMax itself it all in cost money and time. Got to question if it really is faster & cheaper than just giving the trailer a simple wash and borrowing the neighbors power buffer and buying one small bottle of *good* marine rubbing compound & a can of good wax and spending a day on it...... yup I need to give it a new coat of wax each spring but that only takes an afternoon and with it you know are not damaging the fiberglass by doing it. If you used a good wax you should have no problem washing the dirt off the trailer. Oh I know lots of people are going to say but but but my trailer had no shine at all & was all stained etc.... yup that may be true but mine having spent the first 16 years of it life sitting in the Idaho sun wasnt show room condition either LOL. Not that it is now but it sure looks as shiny as a Redmax trailer or at least IMHO it does

Sorry Dave, will get off the topic of specific products - just wanted to show how **very** subjective recommendations can be.... now back to the topic. Promise!
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Old 06-15-2012, 12:40 PM   #28
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RMP is great for older pitted gelcoat, newer still glossy RV there are other options that may be better choice. Anything on the surface is a problem if your painting or waxing. Prep to get totally clean is where 75% if not more of the time goes.

Which makes me withdraw my suggestion of a poll. Nothing is going to provide a "best" what is really being suggested is a knowledge base of known good products that are solutions/options.

Not trying to to tell Dave how to do the job he has offered to take on just a suggestion. Ask in a post, condense replies into digest of the information. Provide some pro/con and any comments that he thinks would be the most helpful. You have an executive summary of information in one place. Link back to the source discussion and done.

Tires? Ask what do you use, how do you use RV (avg speed, lot of interstate, long trips or short), how much did they cost, how long have you used, milage driven and maybe what pressure do you use. Plus any bad tire experiences (avoid these). Condense and let folks figure out what fits their budget and needs.

Brake controllers? Features that matter, price, how well does it work. What kind of driving?

You get the idea.

Removal of RMP should be easy, it's a floor wax and people strip that all the time:

"Although I have not tried it myself, there have been posts here and on other websites claiming that the RMP stripper works well without damaging the underlying fiberglass or graphics. Ammonia has also been mentioned as a viable alternative. Finally, over on the Fiberglassrv forums, one user "accidentally" found that the tire cleaner solution at the local coin-op carwash removed the RMP quicly and easily, again without any damage."

I think I read that post on tire cleaner "learning experience".

Paint process generally would not involve a stripper/remover that would do a great job on floor wax. So if not expected it would be easy to leave residue behind and mess up the paint job is that the wax or the prep?
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:36 PM   #29
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I like the product poll area concept.

There might have to be a sortofa/kindofa limit on how long something is up for suggestions before being posted to the "Recommended products" section - but if later posters disagree with a recommendation, I'm sure we'll ALL hear about it! The section mod will then have to revisit a poll or modify the "recommendation"

At NO time is it the intent to say that this forum recommends using product "X" - but to condense things to where existing threads (and new ones) give an idea that MEMBERS have found that Product X to work well and that Brand A is somewhat less satisfactory. This will have to made VERY clear in the section and maybe even in every recommendation, using "canned' wording.

If there is ever any attempt to have the forum receive any form of compensation for making a recommendation, then the entire form, never mind the recommendations section, loses ALL credibility and becomes much like most Hot-rod type magazines, boating magazines, aircraft magazines, RV magazines, and others. (The fact that Good Sam and Camping World are one and the same causes me to lose 100% of any faith I may ever placed in Good Sam as a member-centered organization)

Yes Carol - painting fiberglass is the same as painting anything else - ask a Corvette owner! Prep is the key and cleanliness is paramount for any form of work. Paint only magnifies flaws - it never hides them (much as those of us who qualify for Guiness recognition as 'world's worst bodyman" wish it would hide things!)
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:42 PM   #30
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Donna's not just good at research, she remembers things...

In fact, I figure between Donna and BC Dave, we could pull up about 90% of the important stuff discussed on here over the past 10 years!!
Especially valuable for info from before the big hack.
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:46 PM   #31
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In thhhhis cahhhnnner, Glassjaw Jack, who promises to wash the thing til wheels stop valve-side up and NEVER recoat with RMP. And, in thhhis cahhhnnner, Combination Carol, Champeeen of the Great Northwest, who waxes on and off once a year. Time will tell


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Old 06-15-2012, 02:12 PM   #32
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......... Paint only magnifies flaws - it never hides them ............
Right, that's what caulking is for.
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Old 06-15-2012, 02:32 PM   #33
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Right, that's what caulking is for.
Silly-cone no doubt!
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:12 PM   #34
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I think a sub-forum like suggested would likely just get all clogged up, not unlike one anywhere else, as folks parlay to position their favourite product as the one that should be the recommended one. Too many good ideas, that can't all be shared by everyone.

It would be a grey area because it would just overlap all the maintenance and how-to sub-forums, IMHO.

To be honest, other than making a post, I don't really pay attention to what sub-forum a post is listed under. I click on new posts and scan for any of interest, dependent where they were posted.
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:18 PM   #35
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[QUOTE=BCDave;315016
Yes Carol - painting fiberglass is the same as painting anything else - ask a Corvette owner! Prep is the key and cleanliness is paramount for any form of work. Paint only magnifies flaws - it never hides them (much as those of us who qualify for Guiness recognition as 'world's worst bodyman" wish it would hide things!)[/QUOTE]


LOL Dave you have also highlighted the very basic problem with the suggestion of product recommendations. Unless the party who weeds through all the posts and polls actually reads everything being said and bothers to follow up on a bit of their own research outside of whats posted here before posting a recommendation it will be a problem.

You obviously did not read Jack's post where he posted what he found when he went to the boat lists "Deep contamination of porous gelcoat is a concern for those who wish to paint over gelcoat" Yes paint prep is important and I am pretty sure the party who does most of the big $$$ boats at the marine in Vancouver is well aware of that and its the reason why they go nuts when they see anyone putting floor finish on their boats gelcoat. Because he knows that all the prep in the world isnt going to fix the problems that product caused in regards to repainting the boat in the future.

Bottom line is you can have a poll on a topic and you are going to get a bunch of people all saying its great, its good, its the best but the problem is they may not have any idea about what the long term ramifications of using the product actually are and or safety concerns or warnings.... they are using the product because everyone else is doing it and it looks good.

Kind of like kids - all their friends are using a certain drug & nothing has ever happened to any of them so it must be ok until a friend dies or like the Ford Pinto - top seller could not make enough of them - all the neighbors bought them so they must be a good car & so a guy goes out and buys one for the wife & kids ... a great car until one day it exploded into flames and the wife and children died - guy didnt know that it had happened many times before he bought the car - simple because Ford didnt tell him there were already concerns about the cars safety record in the industry.

I realize those are sad cases and I only used them to make the point that just because everyone is using something doesn't make it a good & or safe product. How many products in your life time are you aware of that were all the rage.... yet a decade later they are deemed totally inappropriate or unsafe and the younger generation has good laugh at the fact people ever actually used them.

Google is your friend and it works well on this list in finding relevant information on many products but the good news is it also brings up all the posts - the good and the bad and it brings up information from outside of this list. So its up to the individual doing the search to do their own due diligence as whether or not the product is the one for them or not - not as has been suggested that we have someone in the background deciding what they will read and not read in regards to a product and then deciding for us whats worth repeating or not in regards to a products usage. As I said before its a nice idea but IMHO its just not a real viable one. Besides isn't Consumers Reports suppose to be the one we turn to for unbiased product reviews?
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:34 PM   #36
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Besides isn't Consumers Reports suppose to be the one we turn to for unbiased product reviews?

Why yes it is... Just yesterday I picked up the Consumer Reports special edition on the care and maintenance of obsolete water heaters installed in 30 year old fiberglass trailers!

There is NO SUCH THING as "THE" definitive source, but what is on here is a compendium of people who all have a common interest, and have tried various things, and are willing to share their ideas on what they have found to work - for them.

Listing RedMax Pro #3 as a product that many on here seem to think works well may not increase its use. It may not decrease its use.

All I am suggesting is compiling what is already recommended by members.

If we are gonna be afraid that someone may use and subsequently find that they DO NOT like it - well I guess we better take down all the sections on "Care & feeding", "Owners helping owners" etc, etc as someone may find the thread on Red Max without the help of an index and the same issues will arise.

Sorry, Carol - I must be extraordinarily dense today ("today?" she says) but I am missing your point.

You feel Red Max is not proven over the long haul and may cause issues later. If that is the case, we better do a search on here (using Gargoyle) and expunge any reference to it lest someone actually find a reference to it and try to use it!
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:42 PM   #37
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Why yes it is... Just yesterday I picked up their special edition on the care and maintenance of obsolete water heaters installed in 30 year old fiberglass trailers!.
I thought that was what we had a Document center for?
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Old 06-15-2012, 03:44 PM   #38
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Polyglo was mentioned in the same vein as the floor coatings by the spraygun jockeys, Carol. Personally, I believe anyone, pro or amateur, who can do the prep to avoid silicone fisheye can probably come up with a solvent wash for either the real McCoy or Brand X, whether acetone, ammonia, proprietary removers, tire cleaners.

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Old 06-15-2012, 04:07 PM   #39
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Personally, I believe anyone, pro or amateur, who can do the prep to avoid silicone fisheye can probably come up with a solvent wash for either the real McCoy or Brand X, whether acetone, ammonia, proprietary removers, tire cleaners. jack
Yup your probable right and lots of time as well....not something a trailer owner would be happy having to pay the body shop for the time to do..... starting to sound a lot like using silicone
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Old 06-15-2012, 04:31 PM   #40
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I got it!!!

Instead of "Best" products or even "Recommended" products how about.....

"Recommended Reading" and Dave just posts links under appropriate titles with standard boiler plate disclaimer.
Disclaimer:
" Your mileage may vary. Not everyone agrees. Some of this stuff if done incorrectly may totally mess up your RV or work out great anyway. Some of this stuff done correctly may not do what you think it will and could totally wreck you life or your RV. Electrical work is dangerous, you could die. Or have a great new feature, who knows how good or lucky you are? Not us!

Some cleaning, painting, fiberglassing, waxing or decorating products can kill you. Especially if drunk in large quantities or sniffed for hours in a small RV while trying to de-gunk, repaint, repair, make shiny or pretty it up.

Some people recommend cheap junk you will hate having purchased or think you got a great deal on. Online reviews are your friend, not to say some of them are not written by people with whom I disagree completely. Or not.

Any reference by members to alcoholic beverages while working on or camping in a fiberglass RV does not constitute an endorsement by the moderators of such behavior except for the camping in fiberglass RV but it is a personal choice you made, don't blame us if it does not work out and you wish you had a stickie.

The moderators love fiberglass RV's they might even like you if they met you but it's up to you to decide if you want to do anything you read about here or just figure the person who wrote it is crazy.

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