Government Shutdown

[Jon Vermilye]

For those interested, the Long Term Visitor Areas at Quartzsite have closed the entrance stations (the entrances themselves are open), and as of this morning (Saturday) the vault toilets are open, as are the dump station & water fill stations at La Posa South. I guess camping is free until things are back to normal.

[Sid]

Originally Posted by Jon Vermilye

For those interested, the Long Term Visitor Areas at Quartzsite have closed the entrance stations (the entrances themselves are open), and as of this morning (Saturday) the vault toilets are open, as are the dump station & water fill stations at La Posa South. I guess camping is free until things are back to normal.

Unfortunately this is more normal than we care to admit.
As bad as it may seem President Trump headed for his third shutdown may not even be on pace to set the record. FWIW President Jimmy carter presided over 5 in his one term in office and President Ronald Regan had 8 during his two terms.
Enjoy the free camping

[Alex Adams]

Originally Posted by Sid

Unfortunately this is more normal than we care to admit.
As bad as it may seem President Trump headed for his third shutdown may not even be on pace to set the record. FWIW President Jimmy carter presided over 5 in his one term in office and President Ronald Regan had 8 during his two terms.
Enjoy the free camping

Not sure where you heard that. Before 1980 there were no funding gaps that led to government employees being furloughed not the federal government shutting down.
The opinions forcing the government to shut down during a funding gap wasn't made until 1980 and 1981:
Government shutdowns are familiar to most Americans, but they’re a relatively recent development. They are the result of the Congressional Budget Act of 1974. Since then, Congress has failed to authorize funding for the federal government on 18 separate occasions. The first six of those didn’t actually affect the functioning of government at all. It wasn’t until a set of opinions issued by Attorney General Benjamin Civiletti in 1980 and ’81 that the government started treating “funding gaps”— periods when Congress has failed to allocate funds for the ongoing functions of government — as necessitating the full or partial shutdown of government agencies.

[k corbin]

It was quite likely the headlines in this article https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...bama-explained that led them to believe it was the same type of thing.

However you can't just read the headlines on articles and then do a quick skim of the highlighted sub headlines of other specific things such as the various shutdowns being discussed. You have to get right into the text of the specifics given in the introductory paragraph. The headline on that article would lead most anyone to think that actual shutdowns similar to the current one happened but if you read just a little further into that first paragraph you get a more accurate picture of the differences in the earlier shutdowns compared to the later ones.

For articles about technical information a quick skimming over the article does not always work out because if you do that you can miss vitally critical information about the subject. This is what leads to these misunderstandings and sometimes resentments in forums. Both persons are drawing conclusion they think are correct but one of the persons did not get the full picture of the situation because of a somewhat hasty review of the information. They are not intentionally trying to cause conflict, they simply don't realize that they missed some important data that was being presented.

[Sid]

The artical I saw was from the Washington post and it was quite similar the the one you posted a link to, and yes I did read it.
Sorry if I wasted your reading time but hey ay least I made you look good!
I made the mistake of diverting the core theme of the thread. I simply thought it interesting how many funding gaps (shutdowns) have actually occurred.

[Mike Magee]

I have noticed a trend in the past few years of headlines that sensationalize, and when reading the entire article the facts don't support the headline. It doesn't seem restricted to any certain types of media sources, but seems to have become more common practice across the board. I think there must be a growing segment of readers who habitually skim headlines for their facts, or else the trend would not be as likely to exist.

[Jon in AZ]

Headlines, especially front page headlines, have one purpose: to sell the paper. They're not written by the same person who wrote the article.

Getting back on topic... the State of Arizona will be keeping Grand Canyon NP open during the shutdown. My understanding is trails and overlooks will be open, concessionaires (including campgrounds) will operate as usual, but NPS-operated facilities- visitor center and pay stations at the gates- will be shuttered. Free entry. We're expecting light snow in northern AZ on Christmas Day, so it should be beautiful.

[MyronL]

There's no gates blocking camping at any BLM land, anywhere. Didn't even know they have vault toilets. Was at the VA hospital Friday and was assured they were staying open.

[Alex Adams]

Originally Posted by Sid

The article I saw was from the Washington post and it was quite similar the the one you posted a link to, and yes I did read it.
Sorry if I wasted your reading time but hey ay least I made you look good!
I made the mistake of diverting the core theme of the thread. I simply thought it interesting how many funding gaps (shutdowns) have actually occurred.

Sid, you didn't waste my reading time. I didn't realize that the whole shutdown nonsense was created by budgeting legislation passed in 1974. I haven't had the time yet, but I am curious enough to find out more about the background behind that legislation. Wouldn't have known about it but for your post. And yes, some papers have always used sensational headlines to grab the readers attention. Look at some of the ones from the Plymouth Colony before the US even existed!

[Alex Adams]

I'm happy that, at least so far, the shutdown hasn't messed with anyone plans.....yet.

[ShelbyM]

Our local newspaper reports that the Natchez Trace Pkwy remains open for travel and that the free campgrounds are open. It did not specifically mention restroom facilities. It's possible they are closed, though not a big deal for RV travelers.

[ZachO]

It's mostly government employees whose travel plans are affected. I don't know the specifics but hear a lot, since my office is housed in a federal building and I work closely with a lot of federal employees. Actually I'm house sitting right now on a national wildlife refuge for the holidays.



The problem is, I think the official line is that during a gov shutdown, federal employees aren't allowed to travel. The holiday would be ok since it's a day the gov wouldn't be open anyway, but if anybody had extended plans, they technically need to cancel them and be around town in case the government opens back up. Pretty lame.

Nice to see someone from Oswego, Jon! I grew up in Syracuse.

[CarlD]

Zacho, I live in Pompey. As long as the gubmint keeps the roads clear I'm happy!

[ZachO]

Ah, nice. All these places I haven't been within a thousand miles of in years...someday I'll go back and visit. I definitely have some nostalgia for the area.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Sid

The artical I saw was from the Washington post and it was quite similar the the one you posted a link to, and yes I did read it.
Sorry if I wasted your reading time but hey ay least I made you look good!
I made the mistake of diverting the core theme of the thread. I simply thought it interesting how many funding gaps (shutdowns) have actually occurred.

Did you know that NASA landed a woman on the sun in 2018?

[slowpat]

Originally Posted by ZachO

It's mostly government employees whose travel plans are affected. I don't know the specifics but hear a lot, since my office is housed in a federal building and I work closely with a lot of federal employees. Actually I'm house sitting right now on a national wildlife refuge for the holidays.

Attachment 126884

The problem is, I think the official line is that during a gov shutdown, federal employees aren't allowed to travel. The holiday would be ok since it's a day the gov wouldn't be open anyway, but if anybody had extended plans, they technically need to cancel them and be around town in case the government opens back up. Pretty lame.

Nice to see someone from Oswego, Jon! I grew up in Syracuse.

I'm retired now. I was one who worked during the big shutdown in the 1990s. The good thing is that this shut down happens to be in December, when a lot of federal employees are using their accrued vacation time. You have to use or lose any time that exceeds 240 hours, and long time employees earn 16 hours a month so it can add up. I used to enjoy working during November and December because so many people were gone. The phone rang less, meetings were non-existent and I could concentrate on what was going on in the woods. The same went for the shutdown time.

There was never any mention of traveling. Traveling for business was shut down, but personal traveling was not. The only problem with say, going on a vacation because you can't work would be that the order to start work can come at any time and you might miss getting back and miss pay for that day.

Like any other realm, one needs to try to have a nest egg for emergencies. In every shut down so far, employees have been paid for the forced time off. It's the paycheck to paycheck folks who are hurt during the shutdown. Otherwise, it is a staycation.


During the Newt shutdown, there were three of us who were deemed to be essential on our ranger district. I did my normal contract work and then drove around trying to cover ground to "show the flag" out in the forest--where it wasn't too snowy to drive. We had bulky satellite phones to keep in touch as there was no dispatch.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by Sid

The artical I saw was from the Washington post and it was quite similar the the one you posted a link to, and yes I did read it.
Sorry if I wasted your reading time but hey ay least I made you look good!
I made the mistake of diverting the core theme of the thread. I simply thought it interesting how many funding gaps (shutdowns) have actually occurred.

Thanks Sid for your post , I understand your intent and you made me think about the subject matter !
Women landing on the sun has nothing to do with it .
.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by MyronL

There's no gates blocking camping at any BLM land, anywhere. Didn't even know they have vault toilets. Was at the VA hospital Friday and was assured they were staying open.

I don't know if it is BLM or not, but due to the so called "government shutdown" we had to relocate the entire LBL rally in 2013 from Piney Campgrounds to a local private campground.
LBL refused to return our reservation fees but finally agreed to apply them toward future stays. They for sure have gates and a guard shack at the entrance.


The private campground had full hookups available and smaller sites, which really facilitated gatherings as nobody had far to walk.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

Did you know that NASA landed a woman on the sun in 2018?

It was a relatively easier thing to do since Venus is nearly 27 million miles closer to the sun than Earth. She must have been one "hot chick" though.


Did she talk like Minnie Mouse when she communicated from the surface?


Did Coppertone develop the sunblock for the trip?


What SPF number was it?


Did she reveal what her weight measured while on the surface?

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by MyronL

There's no gates blocking camping at any BLM land, anywhere. Didn't even know they have vault toilets. Was at the VA hospital Friday and was assured they were staying open.

there's a big piece of BLM land a couple hours from me, Panoche Hills, that closes in the spring and opens in the fall, and is gated and closed all summer. there are no fees when its open.