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Old 04-28-2016, 09:42 AM   #1
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Worst National Park for Dogs

This is a spin-off from two interesting threads going on right now. In my experience, Zion is the worst. There was one trail along a river where you could walk your dog. Otherwise, go back out of the park and put your pet in day care. So, I never got to see much of Zion. If I ever get back near there, I've found forest roads on topo maps that approach the northern limits of the park and that's where I would go, walking among the glorious rocks with my dog.

What's your experience?

Gordon

P.S. If you're interested, this is what I wrote about it in 2007:
Buster Goes To Zion photo - Gordon Keyes photos at pbase.com
I was pretty upset at the time.
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Old 04-28-2016, 10:27 AM   #2
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This is a spin-off from two interesting threads going on right now. In my experience, Zion is the worst. There was one trail along a river where you could walk your dog. Otherwise, go back out of the park and put your pet in day care. So, I never got to see much of Zion. If I ever get back near there, I've found forest roads on topo maps that approach the northern limits of the park and that's where I would go, walking among the glorious rocks with my dog.

What's your experience?

Gordon

P.S. If you're interested, this is what I wrote about it in 2007:
Buster Goes To Zion photo - Gordon Keyes photos at pbase.com
I was pretty upset at the time.
After learning that you could not drive through much of Zion and while they provided a bus, dogs were unwelcome, we passed the park by.

I've yet to find a National park that was dog friendly. At one I asked for a location where I could throw a ball to give the dog exercise, I was told there was nowhere and I would be fined if I took the dog off the leash. We found a place in the national forest just down the road.
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Old 04-28-2016, 10:43 AM   #3
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Our National Parks are our treasurers. I can understand the No Dogs policy. I've seen first hand not everyone is a good pet owner.
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Old 04-28-2016, 11:14 AM   #4
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Our National Parks are our treasurers. I can understand the No Dogs policy. I've seen first hand not everyone is a good pet owner.
Not everyone is a good parent either. Shall we have a no children policy. Of course not. For many our pets are family. There will always be bad characters and I have no trouble with them being fined but a little tolerance and compromise is far better than punishing the responsible ones as well.
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Old 04-28-2016, 12:01 PM   #5
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Totally agree Raz.
Yes National Parks are off our list until we are dogless. We previously camped at Glacier NP and lovely trail around the lake right by our campsite but couldn't go on it with dog, I remember you couldn't even walk up the path to the visitor centre, parking lot only
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Old 04-28-2016, 12:03 PM   #6
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Not everyone is a good parent either. Shall we have a no children policy. Of course not. For many our pets are family. There will always be bad characters and I have no trouble with them being fined but a little tolerance and compromise is far better than punishing the responsible ones as well.
I've been to a few National Parks, the biggest complaint that visitors seem to have is stepping into dog poop. Also I've seen dogs chasing the local residents (wildlife). I've also seen dogs left in RVs that bark all day. For those reasons I have no problem with dogs being banned in most of the park.

Here's a link to Zion's pet rules.

Dogs may be your babies, and that's ok, but you need to understand that other people don't see your dog that way. They it as an ANIMAL and nothing more.
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Old 04-28-2016, 12:50 PM   #7
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In 50 years of camping I have been annoyed by more generators than either dogs or children.
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Old 04-28-2016, 01:52 PM   #8
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There are responsible dog owners and responsible generator users. The ones who are not responsible spoil it for the responsible ones. If everyone were responsible, dog restrictions would not have been put in place. The problem is the proliferation of rudeness. Many members of today's population care only about what they want, and to hell with everyone else.


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Old 04-28-2016, 02:50 PM   #9
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Actually, Zion is one of the best National Parks for dogs since that have at least one trail that allows them. Most of the rest of them do not allow dogs on any trails. Some state parks do allow dogs on trails, but even some of them don't. For example, the trail to Hanging Lake in Colorado.

I have mixed feelings - Personally, I could not travel with a pet since there is only me & I spend a great deal of time away from the trailer. I wouldn't leave a dog in an unattended trailer, both for the dog's sake as well as the neighbors - I've spent too many times listening to barking left behind dogs.

Many trails have tight quarters that make it difficult for owners to keep their dogs away from other hikers. While it doesn't happen often, I've been bitten twice while on trails, and have had to avoid dog droppings more than once, so I can understand why the general rule is no dogs on trails.

Still, I know many dog owners that have well mannered pets that would cause no problems, but have yet to discover a way to tell them from the pets (and owners) that do. A difficult problem...
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Old 04-28-2016, 03:13 PM   #10
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Many trails have tight quarters that make it difficult for owners to keep their dogs away from other hikers.
Those retractable leashes that feed out 20-30' of line should be banned, and not just in parks.
A leash is a leash and is six feet long.
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Old 04-28-2016, 03:24 PM   #11
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I never had any desire to take my dog on a trip - too much hassle, and she wouldn't have enjoyed it anyway.

We live near the Everglades, but why would anybody want to take a dog there? It could get eaten by a gator. Plenty of other places where dogs are allowed.

We were at FD Roosevelt SP in GA last month and it seemed like almost everyone had a dog out on the trail. Most owners were well-behaved and took care of their pets.
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Old 04-28-2016, 03:45 PM   #12
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Our dog loves camping. He enjoys the drive, meeting people, hiking, and so on. We take him whenever possible. I bothered to train him as a pup, and he is really no bother to other people. Many people here have met him.

However, there are many, many irresponsible dog owners, who do not bother to train their dogs, whether it is to heel, come, or not bark. These people are the ones who have wrecked it for those who are responsible dog owners. Even I have trouble tolerating many of these dogs. Because of this, I fully understand why where there is a great concentration of people in an area, that they do not allow dogs. Very unfortunate, but a reality.

It frustrates me to no end folks who don't pick up after their dog, especially in public areas. baglo mentioned leashes, and this is a real irksome thing with me too. I can have my dog heel right at my side without a leash, while others have their leashed dog running around on a 30' tether. Tell me, which one is the most under control?

And yes, kids can be just as much trouble as dogs, maybe more. It is the same type people that don't bother to train their dogs, that seem to have unruly kids. I just love to see kids camping, but am bothered very much with those that have no manners at all. My kids would not have dared to act out in the way some do, yet they too loved (and still love) camping.

I was a Zion a couple years ago. What a great place to explore. Lots of people though, even in the off season. Still there are a couple hikes that anyone needs to put on their bucket list, The Riverside Walk and Angel's Landing. Both memorable hikes I hope to do again. Knowing we were going there, we left our dog at home with one of my brothers. I have friends and kids that would take him for weeks too. Another benefit of a well trained dog, is that people jump at the opportunity to have him for a few weeks.

Jasper is only 8, so we will likely have him around fro another 8 years or so, and when he is gone, it is uncertain that we will get another dog. We most definitely do want one, just not the hassles of taking one on the road with us.
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Old 04-28-2016, 04:07 PM   #13
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What the National parks, and many folks who don't have a pet don't get is that 20-30 minutes of exercise like chasing a ball or a Frisbee will tire a dog to the point where he will sleep for hours. A dog chained to a trailer for hours is bored and will bark at anything. Most campgrounds we have been in when the staff are asked will direct us to a place to run the dog. The NPS is the exception.

Bear in mind I'm sure there is something you do that bothers others.
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Old 04-28-2016, 04:07 PM   #14
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Not everyone is a good parent either. Shall we have a no children policy. Of course not. For many our pets are family. There will always be bad characters and I have no trouble with them being fined but a little tolerance and compromise is far better than punishing the responsible ones as well.
Well said, Raz.

I am NOT of the "love me...love my dog" crowd. I understand, And I follow the rules. Irresponsible and thoughtless people abound, and in a large crowd, there are just more of them, it seems. Rude people can ruin your day, if you let them. WE are the worst animals on the planet, but what can you do.

Coming from a rural home, the traffic and the hoards at popular places makes me want to turn around and leave. And I have done just that.
It's a shame, but I get it. It's just not worth fighting it, sometimes.

I know that when people innocently use the words: "Pet Owner", they're not thinking of a slave/master relationship, or pets as accessories, but it still bothers me some. I own my Scamp, not my dog. Nobody ever called me a "Child Owner" when I was raising my kids. But I love my dog. I don't expect anyone else to.

Carry on

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Old 04-28-2016, 04:45 PM   #15
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I wish people would stop bothering me, asking to pet my dog, hug her, play a little with her, tell me their pet stories of their past dogs they had. It just ticks me off.... Only kiddin. Carl
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Old 04-28-2016, 04:52 PM   #16
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Well said, Raz.

I am NOT of the "love me...love my dog" crowd. I understand, And I follow the rules. Irresponsible and thoughtless people abound, and in a large crowd, there are just more of them, it seems. Rude people can ruin your day, if you let them. WE are the worst animals on the planet, but what can you do.

Coming from a rural home, the traffic and the hoards at popular places makes me want to turn around and leave. And I have done just that.
It's a shame, but I get it. It's just not worth fighting it, sometimes.

I know that when people innocently use the words: "Pet Owner", they're not thinking of a slave/master relationship, or pets as accessories, but it still bothers me some. I own my Scamp, not my dog. Nobody ever called me a "Child Owner" when I was raising my kids. But I love my dog. I don't expect anyone else to.

Carry on

Gordon
I'm sorry, but dogs do NOT equate to children. I have a lot of trouble with those that want to equate their dog with children. A child will grow up and become an adult, hopefully society and parents will do a good job of educating them to obey the rules. Dogs never get to that point. They will never use a toilet, they always be rude and stick their noise in somebodie's crotch, if provoked they'll bite and never outgrow those behaviors.
You own your dog, your children grow up and leave, BIG difference.
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Old 04-28-2016, 05:04 PM   #17
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I'm sorry, but dogs do NOT equate to children. I have a lot of trouble with those that want to equate their dog with children. A child will grow up and become an adult, hopefully society and parents will do a good job of educating them to obey the rules. Dogs never get to that point. They will never use a toilet, they always be rude and stick their noise in somebodie's crotch, if provoked they'll bite and never outgrow those behaviors.
You own your dog, your children grow up and leave, BIG difference.
You are right that you cannot equate the two, but you can compare them. There are many parallels between the two, especially in the behaviour department.

Dogs will never use a toilet (without specific training), but they can very easily be trained to not bite or sniff crotches. Our dog would never do that.

Some folks, like my dear great aunt, could never have kids, yet always had a dog until recently (she is 98 and legally blind now), and her dogs were always well behaved and carried a place in her heart that could not be filled with children of their own. There are many people like this.

I think we all need to be tolerant of how others feel towards any animals. Conversely those who love animals must be conscientious of how those that do not care for them feel, and don't push them on them.

For me one thing that does equate between people and pets is the compassion I have for both.

Humans have had pets for thousands of years, and that is not likely to change. Even if I don't own a dog in the future, I certainly am going to love to see and play with others.
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Old 04-28-2016, 05:46 PM   #18
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Wouldn't it be nice if all dog owners were as caring as this group? And all parents had children that were as well behaved as this group? Truly. But that isn't reality. So rather than compare your well behaved dog/child to the rest, just know there's a chance you are in the minority. And yes, it's the people who let their dogs bark continually and don't pick up after them (and why do I always step in the poop?) is the reason I support the No Dogs policy in our National Parks.
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Old 04-28-2016, 05:50 PM   #19
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I'm sorry, but dogs do NOT equate to children. I have a lot of trouble with those that want to equate their dog with children. A child will grow up and become an adult, hopefully society and parents will do a good job of educating them to obey the rules. Dogs never get to that point. They will never use a toilet, they always be rude and stick their noise in somebodie's crotch, if provoked they'll bite and never outgrow those behaviors.
You own your dog, your children grow up and leave, BIG difference.
Byron,
I never said I equate dogs with children. I said I love my dog, and I don't expect anyone else to. I treat her as the best friend and companion that she is. I don't feel like I Own her. That's just the wrong word for our relationship.

I think a lot of people should not be allowed to have pets. The shelters are full of abused animals. It's criminal. Never blame the pet, they are born innocent.

I never let my dog get close to any strangers. But they often ask if they can come over and pet her.

Never using a toilet is not much of a knock on dogs, if you ask me.

There are many dogs out there helping people with disabilities, as well as veterans and the elderly confined to long term homes. There are bomb-sniffing dogs and drug-sniffing dogs. Point is: Dogs have been serving and helping people for ages. I think many of them are more useful to society than a lot of humans out there.

Yes, children do grow up and leave, thankfully. The hardest thing about being a pet "owner", is that we usually out-live our pets.

If we should ever cross paths in the future, please don't go near my dog. She's known for sloppy kisses.

Thank you
Gordon
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Old 04-28-2016, 07:07 PM   #20
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Byron,
I never said I equate dogs with children. I said I love my dog, and I don't expect anyone else to. I treat her as the best friend and companion that she is. I don't feel like I Own her. That's just the wrong word for our relationship.

I think a lot of people should not be allowed to have pets. The shelters are full of abused animals. It's criminal. Never blame the pet, they are born innocent.

I never let my dog get close to any strangers. But they often ask if they can come over and pet her.

Never using a toilet is not much of a knock on dogs, if you ask me.

There are many dogs out there helping people with disabilities, as well as veterans and the elderly confined to long term homes. There are bomb-sniffing dogs and drug-sniffing dogs. Point is: Dogs have been serving and helping people for ages. I think many of them are more useful to society than a lot of humans out there.

Yes, children do grow up and leave, thankfully. The hardest thing about being a pet "owner", is that we usually out-live our pets.

If we should ever cross paths in the future, please don't go near my dog. She's known for sloppy kisses.

Thank you
Gordon
What you didn't do was read and understand the rules that our National Parks have concerning pets.
If you don't like the rules nobody is twisting your arm to go there. If you go you can expect to need to follow the rules. If you don't like the rules don't go.
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