What Cars Do You Drive?

[Bob Miller]

That claimed "Over 22 MPG" may be pushing it a bit. Here is a link to the epa's figures and also to typical user reported figures for each.


Note that each takes a huge hit on city MPG's, a stiff price to pay unless you spend all of your time not towing and on the hiway.


Gas Mileage of 2014 Chevrolet Silverado

[rbryan]

Spot on Bob.

And, even a lighter, smaller fiberglass trailer has frontal area, and that frontal area produces drag and has a dramatic effect on gas mileage. If a Silverado "typically" gets 25 highway not towing, a "typical" result would be 16-17 mpg max when towing, and that includes a small fiberglass RV.

We have a pretty economical setup with an F150 2.7L Ecoboost towing a 3200 lb Escape 19, but we do take about a 9 mpg hit when towing - not mainly because of weight, but because of the additional wind resistance from the large frontal area. Ironically, a larger and heavier trailer would produce similar results with our tow.


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[rdickens]

Robert,

You mentioned a 9 mpg hit when towing.

Could I ask what your in-town, highway, and towing mpg numbers are and what your towing speed typically is?

For our 2014 Ford Escape 2.0L Ecoboost FWD, we are getting 32-34 on the highway,
about 23 mpg towing a Scamp13 at ~60 mph, and ~24-25 mpg in town.

I have considered an F-150 2.7L Ecoboost whenever we upgrade our other car.

Also, about how many miles do you have on your F-150 and how has your reliability been?

Just curious .... 😉

Ray


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[68dave]

I tow my 17ft Casita with a lifted 2004 Toyota tacoma 4x4 3.4L v6/5 speed manual trans.

[LyleB]

I have a 2014 F150, 5.0L V8. Get 21 MPG around the neighborhood, 23 MPG highway when not towing. Plan to use this when towing a 13 or 16 ft Scamp or Casita in the fairly near future. I've also been looking at caps for the truck bed. A.R.E. advertise that their wedge shaped caps (higher at the rear) act as a wind deflector when towing a trailer, directing the wind up and over the trailer, and thus improve MPG.

Anyone have any thoughts on this aspect of a cap?

[Borrego Dave]

Originally Posted by LyleB

I have a 2014 F150, 5.0L V8. Get 21 MPG around the neighborhood, 23 MPG highway when not towing. Plan to use this when towing a 13 or 16 ft Scamp or Casita in the fairly near future. I've also been looking at caps for the truck bed. A.R.E. advertise that their wedge shaped caps (higher at the rear) act as a wind deflector when towing a trailer, directing the wind up and over the trailer, and thus improve MPG.

Anyone have any thoughts on this aspect of a cap?

Lyle, a number of folks here that tow with a van or minivan say those vehicles punch a hole in the wind and probably keep the MPGs up. Your idea of that type of cap can do nothing but help deflect the wind over the trailer. Look at how many semi's have a deflector on the cab . Must work. But really, if you're going to get into RVs, it's going to cost you a few extra bucks to play.

[rdickens]

Lyle,

I would like to find a good air deflector for our Ford Escape or, maybe
better yet, a deflector that might mount on the front post/jack of the
trailer to deflect air up and over the trailer.


The other possible issue is the fairly large flat plate area at the rear
of the trailer (that is why the little teardrop trailers have such low drag).

They say that sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words. You
could take a look at these pix:









Good luck!


Ray

[Bob Miller]

That Airstream chart is actually from a very old Airstream advertisement and is nothing more than advertising. There has never been any additional information found about which vehicles and trailers were used, how the tests were performed and who "Dr Buckley", at U of M might be. But, it's on the internet, so therefore; a) it will live on forever and b) it must be true.

[rdickens]

I've been a licensed pilot since I was 16 years old and have always had
an interest in how aerodynamic drag contributes to reducing the speed
of airplanes.

Whether it is on Airstream trailers or some of the FGRVs (Scamp, Casita,
etc.), rounded corners and aerodynamic shapes do count for something
in terms of drag reduction and increased/decreased MPG.

The predecessor to the Airstream trailer was the Bowlus Road Chief
that was designed by the same fellow who designed the "Spirit of St. Louis"
airplane. (There was actually a Bowlus Road Chief at the Oshkosh air show
this year. You'll notice that the Road Chief actually has a teardrop-shaped
back end.)

There have been several references on the forum citing the extreme
importance of the "frontal area" of a trailer as being the primary source
of aerodynamic drag. I believe that concept is only partially true.

The wire and airfoil picture is from an article call "The Zen of Drag Reduction",
by Barnaby Wainfan, that appeared in the "Wind Tunnel" column
of "Kitplanes" magazine in June 2013. I have the whole article
but have not posted it due to concern about intellectual property rights.
(Barnaby was at Oshkosh again this year and I have personally spoken
with him on several occasions.)


Regards,

Ray

[frank_a]

We tow a 2012 15' Parkliner with a 2014 Ford Escape with the 3500# tow package. We look to sell the Parkliner (and the Escape) down the road a couple years and upgrade to an Escape 21 or 5.0TA. We've been looking at Nissan Frontiers for that duty. With a V6, even with 4WD, they will tow 6300#s. We're hoping mpg figures improve industry wide over the next 2 or 3 years, and maybe we'll all have better choices!

Frank

[rbryan]

Originally Posted by rdickens

Robert,

You mentioned a 9 mpg hit when towing.

Could I ask what your in-town, highway, and towing mpg numbers are and what your towing speed typically is?

For our 2014 Ford Escape 2.0L Ecoboost FWD, we are getting 32-34 on the highway,
about 23 mpg towing a Scamp13 at ~60 mph, and ~24-25 mpg in town.

I have considered an F-150 2.7L Ecoboost whenever we upgrade our other car.

Also, about how many miles do you have on your F-150 and how has your reliability been?

Just curious .... 😉

Ray


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There are a ton of variables Ray, not the least of which is the length, width and height of both the trailer and the tow, the drivetrain, wheelbase, axle ratio, as well as the terrain and average speed, so take these numbers for what they're worth:

Highway mpg = 26.1 mpg average
City mpg = 20.2 mpg average
Towing mpg = 16.2 mpg average

Currently 6800 miles on the truck, so no real impressions of durability, since it is so far flawless.



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[sokhapkin]

Speed affects MPG a lot. Here are numbers showed by on board computer of 2013 F-150 5.0L 2WD (not towing), each leg about 10 miles:

55-60 MPH - 22 MPG
70 MPH - 19.5 MPG
45MPH - 25 MPG

Average MPG when towing 16' Scamp on 8K miles cross country drive at 60-65 MPH is about 16.5 MPG.

[rdickens]

Thanks Robert & Sergey!

That is useful information!

At some point in the future, we might possibly consider a 16/17 foot trailer.

I understand that the less aerodynamic a trailer is, the bigger the part that
speed plays with reduced MPG. (That is one of the implications of those
speed versus horsepower charts for the Airstream trailers.)

I also know that the additional weight and slightly higher-off-the-ground
characteristics of some/all of the larger 16/17 FGRV trailers likely means
that our current 23 mpg towing fuel economy will take a significant hit.

For our current longer-distance and shorter-duration travel , we are
enjoying the economy of our current rig (Scamp13 + 2014 Ford Escape
2.0L FWD).

In the future, if our travel becomes shorter-distances and/or longer-durations,
we might succumb to the dreaded 3-feet-itis bug?

Thanks again!

Ray

[honda03842]

Ray,

One thing about a Scamp 13 and a Scamp 16 is that they have virtually the same frontal area. To listen to some they weigh almost the same... and may.

[Bob Miller]

The Scamp site lists a difference of about 500 lbs between base 13's and 16's


Scamp 13' 1200-1500 lbs
Scamp 16' 1750-2000 lbs.


And the 16' has than much more room for stuff....

[MC1]

500lbs will make no noticeable difference in mileage assuming the same aerodynamics and frontal area.

I have towed our 23 empty at 3,700lbs and loaded ready for travel at over 4,500lbs. 16mpg (imp gals) either way. Not bad considering dual axles and 15" wheels/tires.

[honda03842]

Ray except for hills, towing's mostly about frontal area not weight. Hills are about speed up the hill.

[CampyTime]

I tow with a 2007 chevy express 1500 with a 4.3 vortech 6 cylinder. Purchased new to me this year as it has a wheelchair lift inside for my brain injured brother. Probably lousy mpg in this tank, but it does tow nicely and lots of room for camping stuff! I've never measured mpg while towing but honestly I don't seem to fill up any more than I did with my 2002 S10 with same motor.

Sorry no data to back this up, just gut sense I guess. But it doesn't matter to me much really because

Love conquers all 😊


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[rdickens]

Thanks all ....

When Scamp starts making the Scamp16 Layout4 with a 54" bed, we
might be tempted?

My wife wanted a trailer that could be pulled with our/her 2011 Honda
CRV with the automatic transmission, be able to take grandkids on
camping adventures, and travel long distances without too much expense.

It might be a little difficult to find a later model, 54" bed, Scamp13 that
weighs as little and tows as easily as ours.

The automatic-transmission Honda CRV does an "adequate" job of
towing our Scamp13 and we currently enjoy the option of towing with
either the Ford Escape or the Honda CRV. While the Ford Escape
would hardly notice an additional 500 pounds, I'm afraid that the
CRV automatic transmission might be working pretty hard to handle
the additional weight in the mountains (Colorado Rockies, Tennessee
Smokies, or ???) or maybe even in the Ozark hills?

Sadly, Scamp doesn't yet have a "standard configuration" 16 foot trailer
that is capable of doing what we have already done in our Scamp13
(i.e. sleep 3 grandkids + myself + DW) . I think that you'd really need
both the 54" bed and the sofa/bunk-beds configuration to sleep that many.
We slept 5 in our Scamp13 with 54" bed

(I've been told that Scamp might build a Scamp16 Dlx Layout A with
the front sofa/bunks instead of the standard front dinette, but that would
be a special order and the Deluxe would be extra expense. I've been told
(I suppose this could be wrong?) that the wood interior of the Deluxe
would also add some unwanted additional weight. ???? )

Besides the additional 3 feet of fiberglass exterior walls and 3 additional
feet of OSB flooring, there would be some additional interior fiberglass
walls for the bathroom (or storage room?), additional cabinets, and
possibly the added weight of a hot water heater, blackwater tank, etc.
With the additional room, there would be the opportunity/temptation
to haul additional stuff inside the trailer. So .... all considered, I think
that an additional 500 pounds would not be an unrealistic estimate
of the difference in weight between the Scamp16 and our Scamp13.

Because the Scamp16 sits higher, it would present a little more in
the way of "effective" frontal area unless I could come up with a good
air deflector.

Also, with smaller wheels or ???, I might have a chance to get our
Scamp13 inside our garage with a 7 foot door. With a Scamp16, I
think that the garage would be out of the question without the
expense of changing to an 8 foot garage door.

My sister and BIL have a Scamp16 SD (Layout 6). We're jealous of their
additional storage space; they are a little jealous of our larger bed and
our ability to sleep more grandkids. Trade-offs .. trade-offs

Maybe someday .........

Ray

[honda03842]

Ray, I assume you have a transmission cooler. One interesting thing comparing a Scamp 13 to a Scamp 16, is that much of their weight they have in common. Their axles, tires, most of their frame, propane tank, battery, grey tank, appliances, dinette, bunks. Even the fiberglass weight is not linear with length, as you increase the length, the ends are a constant.

There is a 4" difference in height. I guess we don't notice it because we have no roof air conditioner and Scamp 13s with an air conditioner are taller than our Scamp 16.

I'm surprised Scam does not offer the 54 inch bed in layout 4. AS well I believe Floyd has mentioned the weight difference between the Deluxe and standard unit. I'm not sure I understand the large listed difference.

Ray, wishing you safe travels,